Why Bitcoin may now level off...

[hellfrozenow]

Can someone explain to me why people here think a rise from $1,000 to $10,000 could even happen at all, let alone quickly?

I doubt quickly, but once fiat can be changed to Bitcoin easily and quickly (Bank supporting it, Bitcoin ATMs), $10,000 wont last long

[btcprice]

A lot of the money coming in from China is from big players. They all don't concern themselves with buying fractions if the price gets too high. The only concern should be with the new people considering buying bitcoins who don't know that you can buy fractions. I don't know if there are so many of them that it's holding the price down.

[EvilPanda]

The price is IMO slowing down speculative trading. If you bought BTC for lets say $300, you could get 3 for a 1000 and it went up by 20 you were getting $60. Now you can't even get 1 BTC for that price so if it goes up you get $18 while investing the same 1000. (Ofc not counting the fees).

[piramida]

you don't know what percentages is right panda? in the first example, you invested 1000, bitcoin went up 6%, you got 60. in your second example, price goes up 2% and you expect the same returns for some reason.

[BittBurger]

Yeah , i just haven't been able to grasp why people say "We will hit $1,000, then $5,000!  then the moooooooooooooon!"

What takes us to the moon?

I know what took us to $1,000 ....

-----------------  In order for Bitcoin to continue to 5,000, 10,000...etc....
-----------------THERE MUST be something unique about Bitcoin that pushes its price up *EXTERNAL* from the buying and selling on exchanges.

If there is such an element, then my original question in the original post is answered.

If somehow adoption by merchants translates to "increased price per bitcoin" ... then there's the answer to my question.

But does it?

If Bitcoins "per coin" price depends 100% on the buying and selling on exchanges, then we have reached pretty close to our maximum price.

Gold has been around thousands of years and here it sits at $1200 or whatever ....

So what is that unique thing about Bitcoin that pushes it from $1,000 to $2,000 *outside* of the buying/selling/trading on exchanges?

-BittBurger-

[EvilPanda]

you don't know what percentages is right panda? in the first example, you invested 1000, bitcoin went up 6%, you got 60. in your second example, price goes up 2% and you expect the same returns for some reason.

So you think the exchange is gonna go up and down by larger numbers as btc price grows? We will one day end up investing 5k in a single btc just to see the price move by 20$ which will not even cover trading fees.

[piramida]

if there would only be 12mil ounces of gold mined to date, then the price would be quite different - about $500,000 per oz, based on a fact that 174,000 tons of gold are mined to date.


And yes Panda, percentages work that way, what the hell you guys learn in schools these days? The higher the base price, the bigger is every single %.

[Miz4r]

Yeah , i just haven't been able to grasp why people say "We will hit $1,000, then $5,000!  then the moooooooooooooon!"

What takes us to the moon?

I know what took us to $1,000 ....

-----------------  In order for Bitcoin to continue to 5,000, 10,000...etc....
-----------------THERE MUST be something unique about Bitcoin that pushes its price up *EXTERNAL* from the buying and selling on exchanges.

If there is such an element, then my original question in the original post is answered.

If somehow adoption by merchants translates to "increased price per bitcoin" ... then there's the answer to my question.

But does it?

If Bitcoins "per coin" price depends 100% on the buying and selling on exchanges, then we have reached pretty close to our maximum price.

Gold has been around thousands of years and here it sits at $1200 or whatever ....

So what is that unique thing about Bitcoin that pushes it from $1,000 to $2,000 *outside* of the buying/selling/trading on exchanges?

-BittBurger-

What exactly is your argument against the price of bitcoin rising further to $2000 and beyond? I don't see why the exchanges couldn't sustain higher prices, as long as they can handle the volume and the increased amount of fiat on the books. Your point about Gold also doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me. An ounce of Gold is sitting at $1200 right now, so what? It doesn't explain or say anything at all, what the hell is your point? 

[Syke]

I gave my old man 5 bitcents for his birthday, worth about $50. Even in his old age he understood .05 btc just fine.

Now when .01 btc reaches $10,000 then we might have a problem. I'm ok with it levelling off there.

[EvilPanda]

if there would only be 12mil ounces of gold mined to date, then the price would be quite different - about $500,000 per oz, based on a fact that 174,000 tons of gold are mined to date.


And yes Panda, percentages work that way, what the hell you guys learn in schools these days? The higher the base price, the bigger is every single %.

Sadly not economics or business, rather what's inside a paramecium or what's crime and punishment about. Thankfully there are guys like you willing to explain.

Back to the subject - what makes you think that the price will move by same % daily when BTC reaches 5k or more? Daily movement of 20$ whe the price was 500 was normal. with 5k we would need +/-200$ to keep up. IMO unreal...

[BittBurger]

When I saw bitcoin for the first time, it just finished climbing from 0.10 to $1 and I had exactly your thoughts, OP. I thought - fuck, now I won't buy it anymore and who would if it costs more than a dollar

Yeah but this is a different animal altogether at $1,000.

$1,000 is a thresshold that 99% of stocks never pass .... and 99% never even reach.

That's kind of why Im taking this viewpoint more seriously.

I bet daily on the "1 penny to 1 dollar" chance with alt coins, and have been paid handsomely on nearly every one of them.

Something being at $1,000 and going to $50,000 needs an outside element which pushes up its price.

If its just Sally and Bob buying a Bitcoin on Coinbase .... we're done going up.

-B-

[piramida]

Yes that is true that the higher we go the larger investments have to be made. but they will be, bitcoin has been on national tv of most countries by now. so the real money are coming, and the longer bitcoin does not collapse, the bigger money are feeling safe here.

As for daily percentage moves, just look at the charts they will answer your questions well. $100 per day is the natural movement of btc price now, about 10% as it was in two and three digit ranges.

[bitleif]

$1,000 is a thresshold that 99% of stocks never pass .... and 99% never even reach.

Sure they do. They just split or emit more stock before they get that far. Nominal values are meaningless except psychologically.

[niothor]

When I saw bitcoin for the first time, it just finished climbing from 0.10 to $1 and I had exactly your thoughts, OP. I thought - fuck, now I won't buy it anymore and who would if it costs more than a dollar

Yeah but this is a different animal altogether at $1,000.

$1,000 is a thresshold that 99% of stocks never pass .... and 99% never even reach.

That's kind of why Im taking this viewpoint more seriously.

I bet daily on the "1 penny to 1 dollar" chance with alt coins, and have been paid handsomely on nearly every one of them.

Something being at $1,000 and going to $50,000 needs an outside element which pushes up its price.

If its just Sally and Bob buying a Bitcoin on Coinbase .... we're done going up.

-B-

Look who turned out to be a non believer =))))
Oh , god ! how Ionic-Ironic.

[Coinseeker]

OP makes excellent points.  I've raised them in the past myself.  Bitcoin has already sold itself as a "whole" Bitcoin, with all the fancy "coin" images on every new story and the fact that it wasn't changed to mBTC sooner.  All news pricing is in whole Bitcoins.  People don't want to buy fractions of something.  They are not stupid.  Either some really big money is going to jump on board and buy up BTC or it could be a long, stagnant road ahead.  Since the Bitcoin community still to this day, can not come to consensus on how to denominate Bitcoin, I doubt it will ever happen.  Good thing there are alt-coins.  My $0.02

[Miz4r]

OP makes excellent points.  I've raised them in the past myself.  Bitcoin has already sold itself as a "whole" Bitcoin, with all the fancy "coin" images on every new story and the fact that it wasn't changed to mBTC sooner.  All news pricing is in whole Bitcoins.  People don't want to buy fractions of something.  They are not stupid.

Actually they are stupid, if they weren't they would understand that this is a non-issue.

[OgNasty]

OP makes excellent points.  I've raised them in the past myself.  Bitcoin has already sold itself as a "whole" Bitcoin, with all the fancy "coin" images on every new story and the fact that it wasn't changed to mBTC sooner.  All news pricing is in whole Bitcoins.  People don't want to buy fractions of something.  They are not stupid.

Actually they are stupid, if they weren't they would understand that this is a non-issue.

+1

If you think Bitcoin should be affordable as a whole unit and used the world over with a supply of 21 million, you are clearly not thinking things through very well.

[rupy]

You have to understand what money is to answer this question: FIAT is at the end of a very large global debt super cycle (the collateral is inflated and reused but ultimately worthless), so all players with non indebted FIAT will try to move parts of it into something "safer". Non debt FIAT will increase in relative value as the debt bubble deflates but there is a risk of FIAT failure* that anyone with half a brain can't ignore.

Things have to get ugly soon, nobody knows when, but bitcoin is catalyzing the peaceful process.

* Confiscation, Taxation, Inflation, Move of trust to something that politicians don't control = bitcoin.

[Coinseeker]

OP makes excellent points.  I've raised them in the past myself.  Bitcoin has already sold itself as a "whole" Bitcoin, with all the fancy "coin" images on every new story and the fact that it wasn't changed to mBTC sooner.  All news pricing is in whole Bitcoins.  People don't want to buy fractions of something.  They are not stupid.

Actually they are stupid, if they weren't they would understand that this is a non-issue.

+1

If you think Bitcoin should be affordable as a whole unit and used the world over with a supply of 21 million, you are clearly not thinking things through very well.

I don't really care if it's affordable.  I'm here for the same reason most people are, to make money.  If I want to change the world, I'll go work on something Ripple related.  I just don't view Bitcoin as a currency at all, let alone a world currency.  I view it as speculative commodity that sure knows how to rake in the dough.  Maybe if Bitcoin just marketed itself as such and stopped trying to be something it clearly isn't, mBTC may find value for people in fractions, as simply a long term investment.  Again, no consensus on mBTC so, it really doesn't matter.  It's up to big hedge funds and billionaires now, to take this to the next level price wise.  Just my opinions.  Don't get your thongs in a twist.

[rupy]

It's interesting, most people are only interested in "making dough" and completely miss the real benefits and implications of bitcoin across the board of human life on earth. That said, it's not about the value of bitcoin, it's about the non value of FIAT. What a high price in USD means for bitcoin, is not that bitcoin is great, but that FIAT sucks.