Why Bitcoin may now level off...

[pand70]

Bitcoin has some massive security problem (for a normal person, an nerd can use some superduper unhackable codes and passwords).

It has a learning curve indeed for how to secure your bitcoins but this will change or it must change at least. I think in the future reliable online wallets will make things easier for everyday people. I mean that as someone else said people in the future might use bitcoins without even know it.

[1715321324]

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[1715321324]

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[raid_n]

You have to move all your Bitcoins from your paper wallet to your real wallet or the BTCs on the paper wallet get lost  

Who really can know this? You try to move 1 BTC from your paper to your BTC wallet and lose 99 Coins or ~110.000$ because you dont know this information.

I don't know who said this but its wrong.

Nothing happens to coins on a paper wallet.  You probably read the sentence wrong.  He probably said you *could* lose something that is on paper.

Meaning, its possible to misplace it.  The coins don't sometimes "get lost" from paper wallets.

In fact, the coins aren't really there.  They aren't anywhere.   The blockchain is an accounting ledger, documenting where the wealth is.

The wealth is virtual.  The paper wallet just houses the private key.  And its the private key that unlocks your ability to move the coins from their location documented in the ledger.

There are no coins on your paper wallet, and they can't be lost.

Actually it is possible to lose coins. Here is the scenario: You have paper wallet P1 with a public key P1pub and a private key P1priv containing 1 BTC.
You fill that walled by transferring funds from somewhere else to the public address P1pub. Two months later you decide it is time to spend some of that BTC given the value has at least doubled ( ;-) ).
You import your private key P1priv in bitcoin-qt and tada, the amount of bitcoins stored in your paper wallet are now added to your digital wallet. You then proceed to spend from the added address P1, say 0.1 btc from the 1 BTC of P1. The expected result is that P1 now contains 0.9 BTC. This however is usually not the case. The reason is that usually the wallet software will place the remaining 0.9 BTC into a new address P2 for extra anonymity. So your input from P1 gets split to two outputs: The destination to which you are sending 0.1 BTC and P2 to where you are sending the remainder (actually the difference between the input and the two outputs will be the miner's fee and if you fail to specify a second output for the remainder the miner who found the block receive all of it). Some wallet software will let you specify the remainder address as P1pub, essentially placing the remainder back into the paper wallet but since you have had to use the private key of that address it might be compromised.
Back to the scenario: If you used your wallet software and were unaware that it places the remainder into P2 you might wrongfully assume the paper wallet contains the remainder in P1. You now delete (really, don't ever delete a wallet unless you know what the hell you are doing) the wallet software thinking your online business is done and all is swell. P2 gets deleted along with the private key for P2 so yes, your money is now gone.

Now what do we learn from this? a) Use paper wallets as one time vouchers and once they are digitized destroy them. (and create a new one to where you transfer the remainder) b) don't delete wallets unless you are more than sure that there is nothing you can lose c) who said printing your own money did not at least require a tiny bit of research

[Hfertig]

What exactly is your argument against the price of bitcoin rising further to $2000 and beyond? I don't see why the exchanges couldn't sustain higher prices, as long as they can handle the volume and the increased amount of fiat on the books. Your point about Gold also doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me. An ounce of Gold is sitting at $1200 right now, so what? It doesn't explain or say anything at all, what the hell is your point?  

Go back and read the first post I wrote on the first page.  Everything you just asked me was already asnwered there.  I already explained in detail, in two different posts, why I am concerned that the price won't shoot up past $2,000.  It has nothing to do with the 'exchanges being able to handle' the volume.  Where is that coming from?  Gold a commodity that's been around for thousands of years, is considered by nearly *everyone* to be more valuable than Bitcoin, is well known to be purchasable in divisible amounts, and yet here it sits at $1200?  Yet Bitcoin is going to $100,000?  Im asking who is going to spend the money to get it there.  Not sure what's so hard to comprehend about my question...

You're comparing apples to oranges. Gold is not worth $1200, an ounce of Gold is worth $1200. Comparing that to the price of 1 bitcoin is just silly. It just amazes me how you don't seem to be able to wrap your head around this point. There are only 12 million bitcoins right now and there are much more than 12 million ounces of Gold out there. Your argument would have made more sense if you would compare the market cap of Gold to that of Bitcoin. And if you do that you'll find that Bitcoin's market cap isn't even at 0.2% of that of Gold right now. So yeah, plenty of room to go up for Bitcoin.

I still prefer to hold 100 ounces of Gold than 100 Bitcoins at USD 1240....

[notme]

What exactly is your argument against the price of bitcoin rising further to $2000 and beyond? I don't see why the exchanges couldn't sustain higher prices, as long as they can handle the volume and the increased amount of fiat on the books. Your point about Gold also doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me. An ounce of Gold is sitting at $1200 right now, so what? It doesn't explain or say anything at all, what the hell is your point?  

Go back and read the first post I wrote on the first page.  Everything you just asked me was already asnwered there.  I already explained in detail, in two different posts, why I am concerned that the price won't shoot up past $2,000.  It has nothing to do with the 'exchanges being able to handle' the volume.  Where is that coming from?  Gold a commodity that's been around for thousands of years, is considered by nearly *everyone* to be more valuable than Bitcoin, is well known to be purchasable in divisible amounts, and yet here it sits at $1200?  Yet Bitcoin is going to $100,000?  Im asking who is going to spend the money to get it there.  Not sure what's so hard to comprehend about my question...

You're comparing apples to oranges. Gold is not worth $1200, an ounce of Gold is worth $1200. Comparing that to the price of 1 bitcoin is just silly. It just amazes me how you don't seem to be able to wrap your head around this point. There are only 12 million bitcoins right now and there are much more than 12 million ounces of Gold out there. Your argument would have made more sense if you would compare the market cap of Gold to that of Bitcoin. And if you do that you'll find that Bitcoin's market cap isn't even at 0.2% of that of Gold right now. So yeah, plenty of room to go up for Bitcoin.

I still prefer to hold 100 ounces of Gold than 100 Bitcoins at USD 1240....

Wouldn't holding 100 ounces of gold make your arms tired?

[BittBurger]

You have to move all your Bitcoins from your paper wallet to your real wallet or the BTCs on the paper wallet get lost  

Who really can know this? You try to move 1 BTC from your paper to your BTC wallet and lose 99 Coins or ~110.000$ because you dont know this information.

I don't know who said this but its wrong.

Nothing happens to coins on a paper wallet.  You probably read the sentence wrong.  He probably said you *could* lose something that is on paper.

Meaning, its possible to misplace it.  The coins don't sometimes "get lost" from paper wallets.

In fact, the coins aren't really there.  They aren't anywhere.   The blockchain is an accounting ledger, documenting where the wealth is.

The wealth is virtual.  The paper wallet just houses the private key.  And its the private key that unlocks your ability to move the coins from their location documented in the ledger.

There are no coins on your paper wallet, and they can't be lost.

Actually it is possible to lose coins. Here is the scenario: You have paper wallet P1 with a public key P1pub and a private key P1priv containing 1 BTC.
You fill that walled by transferring funds from somewhere else to the public address P1pub. Two months later you decide it is time to spend some of that BTC given the value has at least doubled ( ;-) ).
You import your private key P1priv in bitcoin-qt and tada, the amount of bitcoins stored in your paper wallet are now added to your digital wallet. You then proceed to spend from the added address P1, say 0.1 btc from the 1 BTC of P1. The expected result is that P1 now contains 0.9 BTC. This however is usually not the case. The reason is that usually the wallet software will place the remaining 0.9 BTC into a new address P2 for extra anonymity. So your input from P1 gets split to two outputs: The destination to which you are sending 0.1 BTC and P2 to where you are sending the remainder (actually the difference between the input and the two outputs will be the miner's fee and if you fail to specify a second output for the remainder the miner who found the block receive all of it). Some wallet software will let you specify the remainder address as P1pub, essentially placing the remainder back into the paper wallet but since you have had to use the private key of that address it might be compromised.
Back to the scenario: If you used your wallet software and were unaware that it places the remainder into P2 you might wrongfully assume the paper wallet contains the remainder in P1. You now delete (really, don't ever delete a wallet unless you know what the hell you are doing) the wallet software thinking your online business is done and all is swell. P2 gets deleted along with the private key for P2 so yes, your money is now gone.

Now what do we learn from this? a) Use paper wallets as one time vouchers and once they are digitized destroy them. (and create a new one to where you transfer the remainder) b) don't delete wallets unless you are more than sure that there is nothing you can lose c) who said printing your own money did not at least require a tiny bit of research

Obviously there are many ways to "lose" coins.  Like leaving your hard drive with 7 million dollars worth, in a Landfill.

But his comment was:  "You have to move all your Bitcoins from your paper wallet to your real wallet or the BTCs on the paper wallet get lost"

You can't lose coins this way.  

As long as he has his paper wallet and his private and public key, he isn't going to "lose" his coins if they don't get moved to a "real wallet" (whatever that means).

[pand70]

I still prefer to hold 100 ounces of Gold than 100 Bitcoins at USD 1240....

So why you waste your time here. There are some nice gold forums that they hate pretty much bitcoin anyway.

[Ardenyham]

I still prefer to hold 100 ounces of Gold than 100 Bitcoins at USD 1240....

Ok, keep holding the gold. There are many ounces of Gold, way more than 21 million.

[piramida]

I still prefer to hold 100 ounces of Gold than 100 Bitcoins at USD 1240....

Ok, keep holding the gold. There are many ounces of Gold, way more than 21 million.

4500 million ounces, to be exact.

[raid_n]

You have to move all your Bitcoins from your paper wallet to your real wallet or the BTCs on the paper wallet get lost  

Who really can know this? You try to move 1 BTC from your paper to your BTC wallet and lose 99 Coins or ~110.000$ because you dont know this information.

...

Obviously there are many ways to "lose" coins.  Like leaving your hard drive with 7 million dollars worth, in a Landfill.

But his comment was:  "You have to move all your Bitcoins from your paper wallet to your real wallet or the BTCs on the paper wallet get lost"

You can't lose coins this way.  

As long as he has his paper wallet and his private and public key, he isn't going to "lose" his coins if they don't get moved to a "real wallet" (whatever that means).

Read his assumption and my explanation again: He moves 1BTC from his 100 BTC paper wallet. How does he do this? By entering the private key into a wallet application or online wallet
and performing the 1BTC transaction. Bitcoin-qt will NOT put the remaining 99 BTC back into that paper wallet's address by default but rather place it into a NEW address.
The paper wallet contains nothing after this transaction while the wallet software has the new address with the remaining 99 BTC. If you explicitly specify the return address to be that of the paper wallet's all is good.
But you do need to know this.

If you do not spend from your paper wallet nothing happens, like you said. But that was not the assumption here

[Hfertig]

I still prefer to hold 100 ounces of Gold than 100 Bitcoins at USD 1240....

So why you waste your time here. There are some nice gold forums that they hate pretty much bitcoin anyway.

Did I say that I am not a believer in bitcoin ? Still looking at Gold and Bitcoin price development and Volatility, Gold does look at current levels more attractive than Bitcoin.

Oh well, the recent price drop has proven me right.

I find it funny, that especially people who just joined half a year ago are the biggest fanboyz and negate the risks investing in Bitcoin does involve.

[UnDerDoG81]

Well, I´m in Computers for over 20 years now but I really dont get it how to safely bring your Bitcoins on paper.

• Buy a cheap netbook. Never connect it to Internet (disabling wi-fi in BIOS or device manager is best)
• Install Armory and run it in Offline mode
• Create a new wallet and print a paper backup of it
• Never worry about change addresses again!

There you go.

Hi,

I tried this but when I click "receive Bitcoins" it says, armory must go online to access any funds sent to your wallet. Please do not receive Bitcoins to your armory wallets until you have sucessfully gotten online at least one time.

What now? I anyway have huge problems to understand all that stuff. I printed an paper Backup but I dont get what the root key is? And people say its easy to safe your coins :/

[raid_n]

If posting links to sites like blockchain.info is frowned upon by mods I apologize in advance

Here is a simple tutorial on how to make a paper wallet. I recommend using encrypted paper wallets for larger BTC amounts ( just use a trivial passphrase) so one would at least have to brute force the passphrase if the paper wallet is physically stolen

https://blockchain.info/wallet/paper-tutorial

[edit] I've not checked if blockchain.info automatically puts the remainder back into the wallet address but you should be able to see how much the wallet address contains to make sure it is there if you intend to re-use the paper wallet [/edit]

[pand70]

I still prefer to hold 100 ounces of Gold than 100 Bitcoins at USD 1240....

So why you waste your time here. There are some nice gold forums that they hate pretty much bitcoin anyway.

Did I say that I am not a believer in bitcoin ? Still looking at Gold and Bitcoin price development and Volatility, Gold does look at current levels more attractive than Bitcoin.

Oh well, the recent price drop has proven me right.

I find it funny, that especially people who just joined half a year ago are the biggest fanboyz and negate the risks investing in Bitcoin does involve.

The recent price drop proved you right on what? That bitcoin is volatile at its current state? I think you should try really hard to find a more ridiculous statement than yours.

[spike420211]

Wouldn't holding 100 ounces of gold make your arms tired?

<3.2Kg. I could chuck that in a backpack and motate all over.
U r a wuss

[Hfertig]

What exactly is your argument against the price of bitcoin rising further to $2000 and beyond? I don't see why the exchanges couldn't sustain higher prices, as long as they can handle the volume and the increased amount of fiat on the books. Your point about Gold also doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me. An ounce of Gold is sitting at $1200 right now, so what? It doesn't explain or say anything at all, what the hell is your point?  

Go back and read the first post I wrote on the first page.  Everything you just asked me was already asnwered there.  I already explained in detail, in two different posts, why I am concerned that the price won't shoot up past $2,000.  It has nothing to do with the 'exchanges being able to handle' the volume.  Where is that coming from?  Gold a commodity that's been around for thousands of years, is considered by nearly *everyone* to be more valuable than Bitcoin, is well known to be purchasable in divisible amounts, and yet here it sits at $1200?  Yet Bitcoin is going to $100,000?  Im asking who is going to spend the money to get it there.  Not sure what's so hard to comprehend about my question...

You're comparing apples to oranges. Gold is not worth $1200, an ounce of Gold is worth $1200. Comparing that to the price of 1 bitcoin is just silly. It just amazes me how you don't seem to be able to wrap your head around this point. There are only 12 million bitcoins right now and there are much more than 12 million ounces of Gold out there. Your argument would have made more sense if you would compare the market cap of Gold to that of Bitcoin. And if you do that you'll find that Bitcoin's market cap isn't even at 0.2% of that of Gold right now. So yeah, plenty of room to go up for Bitcoin.

I still prefer to hold 100 ounces of Gold than 100 Bitcoins at USD 1240....

Sometimes it feels good to be right...

[eternaluniverse]

What exactly is your argument against the price of bitcoin rising further to $2000 and beyond? I don't see why the exchanges couldn't sustain higher prices, as long as they can handle the volume and the increased amount of fiat on the books. Your point about Gold also doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me. An ounce of Gold is sitting at $1200 right now, so what? It doesn't explain or say anything at all, what the hell is your point?  

Go back and read the first post I wrote on the first page.  Everything you just asked me was already asnwered there.  I already explained in detail, in two different posts, why I am concerned that the price won't shoot up past $2,000.  It has nothing to do with the 'exchanges being able to handle' the volume.  Where is that coming from?  Gold a commodity that's been around for thousands of years, is considered by nearly *everyone* to be more valuable than Bitcoin, is well known to be purchasable in divisible amounts, and yet here it sits at $1200?  Yet Bitcoin is going to $100,000?  Im asking who is going to spend the money to get it there.  Not sure what's so hard to comprehend about my question...

You're comparing apples to oranges. Gold is not worth $1200, an ounce of Gold is worth $1200. Comparing that to the price of 1 bitcoin is just silly. It just amazes me how you don't seem to be able to wrap your head around this point. There are only 12 million bitcoins right now and there are much more than 12 million ounces of Gold out there. Your argument would have made more sense if you would compare the market cap of Gold to that of Bitcoin. And if you do that you'll find that Bitcoin's market cap isn't even at 0.2% of that of Gold right now. So yeah, plenty of room to go up for Bitcoin.

I still prefer to hold 100 ounces of Gold than 100 Bitcoins at USD 1240....

Sometimes it feels good to be right...

You can just as easily be wrong in 2 weeks lol