Any other Americans considering a claim against the FBI over SilkRoad?

[MoonShadow]

I was using SilkRoad only to store a selection of bitcoins offsite.  I've never bought any drugs from the site, and I'm sure that I'm not the only one.  They took about 30 bitcoins from me when they snatched Silk Road, and I'm considering sueing them now considering their present value.  Anyone else thinking about this?  Anyone here have any experience with such a claim?

[TiagoTiago]

Why would you use a blackmarket as an online wallet in the first place?

[pedrog]

+1 @TiagoTiago

The site was shady and unreliable from the get go...

[MoonShadow]

Why would you use a blackmarket as an online wallet in the first place?

Because I had already been taken by another online wallet service that closed with much of my funds.  Mybitcoin.com IIRC.  So I figured that a hidden website that doesnt' even pretend to be legal wouldn't be a worse risk.  I figured (incorrectly) that as long as it had already been up and not seized, that DPR must have known what he was doing in the security realm.  I was keeping it there as I transitioned from one computer system to another and moving from one home to another.  I just hadn't gotten around to logging back into it and sending myself the funds yet before the FBI takedown.  I was procrastinating.

[beetcoin]

doesn't make any sense to me.. you had to have known that the FBI was after silk road. if you wanna risk that much money, you should have also known that DPR was not very careful about his staying quiet.

[Ekaros]

I think you will have very little luck with claiming BTC, just like you would with cash involved in alleged drug trade...

USA land of the free...

[beetcoin]

is it me or does anyone else think it's kinda funny that OP is basically saying "i wanted to protect my assets, so i hid my bitcoins where the drugs were."

[chowderman]

Hahahaha, you're as stupid as the dealers, junkies and any other criminal fucktard that used that site. GO for it, file a claim, give them reason to know who you are and arrest your delinquent ass too. With you being a site user, it will certainly make you a suspect if you open your mouth, just go ahead and file your claim, that will be great. hahahaha. Fricken criminal scum and anarchist trash need to be put in prison, it was a great bust Silk Road, so many leads now. Lock all them bastards up.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Well the claim isn't against the FBI.  People seem to think the coins belong to the FBI.  Eventually the coins or the proceeds from when the coins are sold will become the property of the US Treasury.  However they aren't even the property of the US treasury yet.

After the trial is over (yes technically they can do it before but they won't for a lot of reasons) the DOJ (<- notice not FBI) will file for civil forfeiture.  It will be successful and then the DOJ will auction off the fofeited property and transfer the proceeds to the US Treasury.   They do this for billions of dollars in forfeited property every year so it isn't anything unprecedented, although this is probably the first case involving Bitcoins.

Part of that process will be a public claim period.  You have the ability to file a claim (under penalty of perjury) that the assets confiscated are owned partly by you, and that they were not the proceeds of a criminal enterprise.

If you succeed the court would return the wrongly frozen assets back to you.  I don't think I have to point out how much of an uphill battle that will be and how much the three letter agencies will turn over every aspect of your life to see if there is fire where there is smoke but it is your right as part of due diligence.  However I should warn you to get some realistic expectations.  The timeline is measured in years (sometimes decades).  I had funds frozen as part of legal action against Full Tilt Poker, that was over two and a half years ago, AFAIK to date not a single penny of player funds have been returned.

[SaltySpitoon]

Not sure how well it would go over for Americans, however I wonder if it is possible for people from other countries to do so? For example, if you were buying drugs in a country that doesn't prohibit said drugs, and the U.S seized your funds, would you not have a claim?

[MoonShadow]

If you succeed the court would return the wrongly frozen assets back to you.  I don't think I have to point out how much of an uphill battle that will be and how much the three letter agencies will turn over every aspect of your life to see if there is fire where there is smoke but it is your right as part of due diligence. 

Well, I never bought anything on that site, but I sure wouldn't relish the thought of the FBI, ATF etc up my business for a mere $30K; but I strongly suspect that number is going to continue to rise. 

[MoonShadow]

Not sure how well it would go over for Americans, however I wonder if it is possible for people from other countries to do so? For example, if you were buying drugs in a country that doesn't prohibit said drugs, and the U.S seized your funds, would you not have a claim?

I think that you would, but IANAL.

[DeathAndTaxes]

If you succeed the court would return the wrongly frozen assets back to you.  I don't think I have to point out how much of an uphill battle that will be and how much the three letter agencies will turn over every aspect of your life to see if there is fire where there is smoke but it is your right as part of due diligence.

Well, I never bought anything on that site, but I sure wouldn't relish the thought of the FBI, ATF etc up my business for a mere $30K; but I strongly suspect that number is going to continue to rise.  

Yeah it is kinda an interesting concept.  It will be a loooooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng ass time.  These kinds of processes usually go far slower than most people expect.   If I get a resolution (either a check from the US treasury or denied claim) on the Full Tilt Poker event before 2016 I will be pleasantly surprised. 

Now in my case that fiat money is only going to go down in value but Bitcoins on the other hand.  In theory that $30K might be worth $300K, $3M, $30M by then.  At some price point it starts to make sense to take a stab at it.  Hell if the payoff is large enough a lawyer might take it on contingency.

[BCB]

E-gold was indicted on April 27, 2007 and the department of Justice obtained a restraining order to prevent the "dissipation of assets."
http://www.justice.gov/criminal/cybercrime/press-releases/2007/egoldIndict.htm

Legitimate investors are still trying to get their funds back in 2013
https://egoldclaimsprocess.com/

[DeathAndTaxes]

Not sure how well it would go over for Americans, however I wonder if it is possible for people from other countries to do so? For example, if you were buying drugs in a country that doesn't prohibit said drugs, and the U.S seized your funds, would you not have a claim?

Possibly expect dread pirate was a fucking idiot and put the servers in the US.  The US is going to argue jurisdiction.  Buying drugs might be legal in far-a-way-istan but I can tell you now the DOJ case will be the sale occurred in the US in violation of US law.  Far better to file a claim as MoonShadow indicated that the claimant deposited coins but it wasn't to buy anything illegal.  It could work. probably not but a lot depends on how much the coins are worth when that day comes.

[jballs]

You will probably be arrested for frequenting a place where drugs are being dealt.

Agree your criminal trial would be interesting to follow as far as jurisdiction (don't know if there are federal frequenting laws but your state would charge you for them), not sure you want to roll those dice though. What the gov wants more than anything with SR is to make an example of the first batch and hope they discourage the concept. You never want to be the example setter for the powers that be. If by some miracle you got a judge to side with you the IRS would be in your living room the next day.

I wouldn't even have posted that you were there and surely wouldn't call them. But let us know if you give it a shot I will make some popcorn.


PS- For future reference, never stash your money at a drug dealer's house. And staring into the sun is a bad idea also.

[SaltySpitoon]

Mmmm, I think its time we set up Bitcoin space nodes. I bet we could buy some launch rights from Greece, fire a high end server or ten into orbit with some Solar panels, and be out of global jurisdiction.

I'm not really a supporter of the Silk Road, nor do I condemn it. I do dislike the U.S ruining everyone's fun though.

[jballs]

Mmmm, I think its time we set up Bitcoin space nodes. I bet we could buy some launch rights from Greece, fire a high end server or ten into orbit with some Solar panels, and be out of global jurisdiction.

I'm not really a supporter of the Silk Road, nor do I condemn it. I do dislike the U.S ruining everyone's fun though.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=334701.0

soon.

[jballs]

Just a reminder as the anniversary of his passing is nearly upon us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz


There is not much in the way of justice in the USA with regards to technology questions. Presuming you did nothing particularly wrong (like violating jstor TOS by exceeding a download quota) does not mean somebody won't decide to put you in prison (for 50 years or less).

What say you, downloading jstor docs or bitcoins at silk road... 

[beetcoin]

RIP aaron swartz. he, bradley manning and snowden are true fucking martyrs to me. i don't know about julian assange, as he seems like he could be seedy.. but those 3 guys gave up their lives to get the truth out to us.