Are bitcoins indestructible?

[Dabs]

Why do we even talk about the bitcoineaterblablabla address? It's an address without the private key like so many others that people lost their keys already 

The difference is, this bitcoineater address quite possibly does not have an equivalent private key. The ones that people lost, they once had private keys. They just lost them.

[kjj]

It is a fine distinction, true enough, but we are talking about whether or not an intangible idea can be destroyed or not...

[pand70]

Why do we even talk about the bitcoineaterblablabla address? It's an address without the private key like so many others that people lost their keys already 

The difference is, this bitcoineater address quite possibly does not have an equivalent private key. The ones that people lost, they once had private keys. They just lost them.

It's certain not quite possible that it doesn't have an equivalent private key. So what?

[Dabs]

Well, ideas ... can not be destroyed. You can't kill an idea.

A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on. Ideas have endurance without death.

We are told to remember the idea, not the man, because a man can fail. He can be caught, he can be killed and forgotten, but 400 years later, an idea can still change the world. I've witnessed first hand the power of ideas, I've seen people kill in the name of them, and die defending them... but you cannot kiss an idea, cannot touch it, or hold it... ideas do not bleed, they do not feel pain, they do not love...

Creedy: Die! Die! Why won't you die?... Why won't you die?

V: Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof.

[qiwoman]

I don't know if Bitcoin can be indestructible in a technical sense but they may become outdated as faster more efficient protocols come into place but I don't see this coming for the foreseeable future as it will take at least one generation for Bitcoin to reach it's potential as a payment system over the coming decades. I will be curious to see how things play out and hope to be alive to see some positive changes coming for Bitcoiners all over.

[Ruzka]

I would say that they are indeed, indestructible.

[Dabs]

The topic is morphing from the original question. It seems to me, that bitcoin will stick around just the way it is, and other crypto-currencies will take over, for other functions. I treat bitcoin like a check or bank wire. Takes about 10 minutes to send, an hour just to be sure. But it's there.

[SoNic67]

The coins are just bits on different HDD's somewhere. If that magnetic information dies, bitcoins are lost.
For that to happen, it would require that everyone having the chain stop using the Internet or at minimum the Bitcoin P2P software all together. What would lead to that is another story. Cataclysms, ultra depreciation, laws and regulations...

Also, when all the 21 million coins will be minted, any transfer will deduct a fee, but no more coins will be generated to cover that. Will that lead to destruction?

[Syke]

Also, when all the 21 million coins will be minted, any transfer will deduct a fee, but no more coins will be generated to cover that. Will that lead to destruction?

Fees do not create or destroy coins. They are simply transfers made from the sender to the miner.

[jbreher]

The release of a world wide Electro-Magtnetic Pulse could destroy them all,

Unlikely. I personally am aware of several copies of the blockchain (albeit weeks or months stale) on HDDs stored in Faraday cages. I doubt this is the only such set -- by a long shot.

[taltamir]

The coins are just bits on different HDD's somewhere. If that magnetic information dies, bitcoins are lost.
For that to happen, it would require that everyone having the chain stop using the Internet or at minimum the Bitcoin P2P software all together

What you describe isn't the loss of coins, it is the corruption of all copies of the chain and as a result a loss of all bitcoins everywhere simultaneously.

Individual bitcoin loss can occur, it happens when a wallet key is lost. This creates an orphaned wallet that nobody in the world can access, yet contains coins. The coins still exist, they just cannot be reached by anyone

[Syke]

Yes, Bitcoins can be destroyed. The release of a world wide Electro-Magtnetic Pulse could destroy them all, but bitcoin would be the least of our worries. 

I just burnt a copy of the blockchain to a DVD. We're now safe from any EM pulses.

[Dabs]

Have you tried putting a CD or a DVD in a microwave oven? Put it on high for 3 seconds.

That's probably what an EM pulse would do.

[taltamir]

Have you tried putting a CD or a DVD in a microwave oven? Put it on high for 3 seconds.

That's probably what an EM pulse would do.

A microwave typically uses a 1300 watts (typically) bulb. Put your hand a foot away from a 100 watt lightbulb, with and without a sheet of paper in between. feel the difference in heat? Imagine it was 13x stronger.

You COULD in theory have an EM pulse so powerful that it would have equivalent energy levels when it strikes your CD despite the square cube law dispersion pattern (and also amped up because a pulse lasts a tiny fraction of a second while microwave cooking takes longer) but an EM pulse that powerful would wipe out all life on the planet.

Your typical "destroy all electronics" EM pulse is a tiny tiny fraction of that amount of power. When it hits conductive metals it creates an electric current which burns away capacitors and transistors and other components of a printed circuit board. The more fine the electronic component is, the more susceptible it is to EMR (unless shielded. A faraday cage would nullify it)

... that being said, some optical media uses metalic dye, which might be conductive.

[2double0]

Yes they are, i think! You cant 'destroy' them just lose them maybe.

[Dabs]

Yeah. I tried it before. I got a bunch of old CDs and DVDs which I tested in the microwave after reading about it on the internet. Sparks appear after 3 seconds.

The explanation was, the CD is like a mile long electric wire going around. Current is induced. It sparks. It burns.

http://www.wikihow.com/Microwave-a-CD

[greenlion]

Yeah. I tried it before. I got a bunch of old CDs and DVDs which I tested in the microwave after reading about it on the internet. Sparks appear after 3 seconds.

The explanation was, the CD is like a mile long electric wire going around. Current is induced. It sparks. It burns.

http://www.wikihow.com/Microwave-a-CD

A mile long electric wire made of various organic cyanide compounds that you're spreading all around your microwave!

[BurtW]

Something I know something about!  The numbers you are looking for are in the last row:

Code:

                    CD        DVD         BD
Track Pitch         1.6       0.74        0.32         um
Maximum Sectors     360,000   2,295,104   12,219,392   sectors
Inner Radius        25        24          23           mm
Outer Radius        58        58          58           mm
User Area           8,604.8   8,758.8     8,906.4      mm*mm
Spiral Length       5.3780    11.8362     27.8325      km
Sector Length       14.9389   5.1571      2.2777       mm
Min Sectors/Track   10.5148   29.2403     63.4460      sectors
Max Sectors/Track   24.3943   70.6642     159.9943     sectors
			        	               
Spiral Length       3.34      7.35        17.29        miles

[DavidZ]

so... if we aimed all the Hashing power of the Bitcoin network on one address it would take 500 million years? Hey man It's only a matter of time before insane quantum computers just start cracking the codes by the second. I can imagine this will happen one day, when the Bitcoin network migrates to a new protocol based on quantum security. Those computers will tear Bitcoin apart when they finally are able to produce them in mass, and start migrating all the accounts to a new system like a block reward, Or just like the free market migrate by choice to something safer.

I'm quite sceptical that quantum computers are physically even logically possible to build since the theory is predicated on the flawed Copenhagen interpretation. So I'd say bitcoins can't be counterfeited based on a brute force computing approach given what I have read here.

[luqash3]

Everyone have their own opinion regarding the health of bitcoins Mr. DavidZ. In accordance to my views it is surely destructible. In fact these days a lot of tough measures by central banks especially china indicate bitcoin destruction has already began. Some people have seen it while others shall see its destruction soon.