Switzerland to vote on $2,800 monthly ‘basic income’ for adults

[Wipeout2097]

Excuse my ignorance! What is a gypsy? Google images gives me women that looks like they are going to the Renaissance Fair.


https://www.google.com/search?q=gypsy&client=firefox-a&hs=2Fs&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=2SulUoLjO5HZoAS0-IGACQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=759

Gypsies are the descendents of refugees that came from India to Southeast Europe, when Islam did there the usual convert-or-die a few centuries ago.

[bitdragon]

The obvious comment is the source of payment, who will pay so much money !!
In my ideal conception, this one is very easily solved considering the roughly 480 Billion Euros accumulated by the Swiss National Bank in just a few years, with the grandiose illusion of maintaining a minimum exchange rate and bailing out the Euro and the more real reason of European solidarity and piling on debt on the Swiss economy. This is lost money in the near future anyway, so one could even consider just handing out Euros.

It is not that easy. The 480 billion Euros currently held by the Swiss bank is the amount accumulated over many decades. It won't be enough for 3 years of handouts. After that what they'll do?

Also, even if the Swiss bank offloads just one-third of its reserves, the Swiss Franc will collapse by 100% or 200%. (Right now 1 CHF = 1.1 USD, it can become 1 CHF = 0.4 or 0.5 USD).

That is false, it is not many decades, the minimum exchange rate of 1.2 dates roughly from september 2011 with the decision to buy unlimited amount of Euros. Reserves of other currencies obviously exist for a long time but absolutely nothing in comparaison with the rate as of autumn 2011. Some months, more than 66 billion dollar worth of Euros were bought, roughly 7 million every minute. This will not last for many decades. Edit: Also, the Euro has barely been around for 1 decade..

Having Euro in reserve is a liability, not a strength and for your information that massive buying of Euros was precisely to stop the appreciation of the Swiss franc vs Other currencies so offloading it would more likely lead to an increase valuation.

[jones31]

Excuse my ignorance! What is a gypsy? Google images gives me women that looks like they are going to the Renaissance Fair.


https://www.google.com/search?q=gypsy&client=firefox-a&hs=2Fs&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=2SulUoLjO5HZoAS0-IGACQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=759

Google for "tigani" , that's the Romanian term and set your results for Romanian only.
You'll see a totally different pictures.

And don't expect anything like Jennifer Lopez video:)

[jones31]

lol so many people in this thread concerned with nation states and their borders, and reasoning in xenophobic and scarcity thinking, hasn't Bitcoin taught you anything?

Bitcoin has tough me only two things , first one will be to buy and hold till 10 000!.
The second one is to always use escrow because 50% of people are trying to scam and bitcoin , with no charge back option is their perfect heaven.

So no , bitcoin isn't bringing the "best" in human nature to the surface!

[zedicus]

Excuse my ignorance! What is a gypsy? Google images gives me women that looks like they are going to the Renaissance Fair.


https://www.google.com/search?q=gypsy&client=firefox-a&hs=2Fs&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=2SulUoLjO5HZoAS0-IGACQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=759

Google for "tigani" , that's the Romanian term and set your results for Romanian only.
You'll see a totally different pictures.

And don't expect anything like Jennifer Lopez video:)

^^ haha

[coreli]

Switzerland is one of the most highly taxed countries in the world. They also provide great healthcare & drug rehabilitation programs. However setting a basic income of $2800 monthly will make it near impossible for certain businesses to operate.

[bryant.coleman]

Switzerland is one of the most highly taxed countries in the world. They also provide great healthcare & drug rehabilitation programs. However setting a basic income of $2800 monthly will make it near impossible for certain businesses to operate.

That's what I have been saying all along. Some people want to raise the taxes from 40% to 400%. How is that even possible?

[Ekaros]

Switzerland is one of the most highly taxed countries in the world. They also provide great healthcare & drug rehabilitation programs. However setting a basic income of $2800 monthly will make it near impossible for certain businesses to operate.

That's what I have been saying all along. Some people want to raise the taxes from 40% to 400%. How is that even possible?

Just tax 100% of 2.8k from those who don't need it to live. Simple

[bryant.coleman]

Just tax 100% of 2.8k from those who don't need it to live. Simple

Do you think that the HNWIs will be stupid enough to pay 100% tax? They'll just pack up their bags and move to low-tax countries such as Russia and UAE. Just take a look at what happened in France.

And one more thing. The total taxable revenue for the entire Switzerland is around $300 billion, of which some $120 b is already being collected as tax.

In order to give everyone $2.8K per month:

1. A total of $188 b worth additional taxes should be collected. So the net tax becomes $308 billion, which is almost 103% of the total revenue.

2. Every citizen in Switzerland will pay a 103% tax, all the corporations will pay 103% tax... and even the real estate dealings will be taxed by 103%.

Imagine a situation where someone getting $30 or $40 million in annual salary has to pay all of that in tax, and have to live off the $2.8K you are offering. 

[mladen00]

Switzerland is one of the most highly taxed countries in the world. They also provide great healthcare & drug rehabilitation programs. However setting a basic income of $2800 monthly will make it near impossible for certain businesses to operate.

That's what I have been saying all along. Some people want to raise the taxes from 40% to 400%. How is that even possible?

Just tax 100% of 2.8k from those who don't need it to live. Simple

+1

[jones31]

Switzerland is one of the most highly taxed countries in the world. They also provide great healthcare & drug rehabilitation programs. However setting a basic income of $2800 monthly will make it near impossible for certain businesses to operate.

That's what I have been saying all along. Some people want to raise the taxes from 40% to 400%. How is that even possible?

Just tax 100% of 2.8k from those who don't need it to live. Simple

It happened in the URSS , and it wasn't the best idea around.
People will stop working if they will get the same amount of money by sleeping all day and counting sheep.

[niothor]

Switzerland is one of the most highly taxed countries in the world. They also provide great healthcare & drug rehabilitation programs. However setting a basic income of $2800 monthly will make it near impossible for certain businesses to operate.

That's what I have been saying all along. Some people want to raise the taxes from 40% to 400%. How is that even possible?

Because some people like the idea of how many votes a "free money" law will bring them.

[compro01]

Switzerland is one of the most highly taxed countries in the world.

As a percentage of GDP, Switzerland's taxes are lower than Canada and only a little higher than the USA, which themselves are relatively low, contrary to the "We're being taxed to death!!!" screaming.

[bryant.coleman]

As a percentage of GDP, Switzerland's taxes are lower than Canada and only a little higher than the USA, which themselves are relatively low, contrary to the "We're being taxed to death!!!" screaming.

I have already covered this. Even if they tax their citizens 100%, the money which is required for the handouts ($ 188 b) can't be raised.

[jones31]

As a percentage of GDP, Switzerland's taxes are lower than Canada and only a little higher than the USA, which themselves are relatively low, contrary to the "We're being taxed to death!!!" screaming.

I have already covered this. Even if they tax their citizens 100%, the money which is required for the handouts ($ 188 b) can't be raised.

And you should also add into equation that there will be a halving of Switzerland population once this goes through.
There are enough countries out there with nice mountains snow and chocolate without stupid taxes in which you can move.

[compro01]

I have already covered this. Even if they tax their citizens 100%, the money which is required for the handouts ($ 188 b) can't be raised.

How do you figure that?  As of 2013, Switzerland's GDP is approximately $646 billion US Dollars.

The $188B for the "handout" (which assumes everyone in the country gets the full amount, not just supplementing up to at least that level) would be 25.6% of that GDP.

That, in addition to their current budget (which would undoubtedly shrink as they could replace many existing assistance programs with the basic income), would put their taxation as a percentage of GDP about on par with Denmark and Sweden.  It would put them in competition for highest taxes in the world, but it's not impossible.

[bryant.coleman]

How do you figure that?  As of 2013, Switzerland's GDP is approximately $646 billion US Dollars. The $188B for the "handout" (which assumes everyone in the country gets the full amount, not just supplementing up to at least that level) would be 25.6% of that GDP.

Swiss GDP is heavily inflated by its backing sector as well as foreign firms, which can't be taxed. The total salary and other revenue for all Swiss residents add up to ~ $ 300 billion only. Of this amount, $120 billion is already taxed.

And you should also add into equation that there will be a halving of Switzerland population once this goes through.
There are enough countries out there with nice mountains snow and chocolate without stupid taxes in which you can move.

Yes. Typical Atlas Shrugged situation. Hard working people will move out, leaving only the lazy and stupid. The welfare state will last less than 12 months.

[Schleicher]

Well, let's do some math:
75576 million CHF had been used for social security purposes in 2011.
If we divide this by 8 million people we get 9447 CHF per person per year.
That's 11035$ per year or 919$ per month.
Assuming that even children get the full amount.

[jones31]

Well, let's do some math:
75576 million CHF had been used for social security purposes in 2011.
If we divide this by 8 million people we get 9447 CHF per person per year.
That's 11035$ per year or 919$ per month.
Assuming that even children get the full amount.

Lets triple that amount to 2800:).
And add another 1 million foreigners that will dig their way through the Swiss Alps , get one time machine and in 10 years you're going to ask yourself:
"What the hell happened to Switzerland ! "

[renaxi]

Lets triple that amount to 2800:).
And add another 1 million foreigners that will dig their way through the Swiss Alps , get one time machine and in 10 years you're going to ask yourself:
"What the hell happened to Switzerland ! "

Some 500 million plus people with Schengen visas and you are saying that just 1 million will climb the Swiss Alps? I think we can be pretty sure of at least 2 million from Romania alone.

The monetary reserves will run out in 10-12 months. After that we can sell the Swiss Alps, peak by peak. Once that finishes, we can auction parts of the Lake Geneva.