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Author Topic: Are bitcoins essentially useless in a setting without internet connection?  (Read 554 times)
streetsmart (OP)
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December 05, 2013, 10:44:39 PM
 #1

In a scenario where trust is not required, can bitcoin be used as a currency without an internet connection?
huryde
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December 05, 2013, 11:14:47 PM
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You need to be connected to the network for the transaction to be confirmed. This would require an internet connection yes.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Introduction#Sending_payments

qwertyGuy
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December 05, 2013, 11:19:36 PM
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In a scenario where trust is not required, can bitcoin be used as a currency without an internet connection?

You can give paper with private key loaded with BTC to your friend, I bet he will believe your BTC are there and you will not spend the BTC yourselves
odolvlobo
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December 05, 2013, 11:44:17 PM
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Something like Casascius coins could be used as long as everyone trusts Casascius and the coins are not easily hacked or counterfeited. You are basically trading paper wallets containing a fixed value.

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MoonShadow
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December 06, 2013, 12:00:17 AM
 #5

In a scenario where trust is not required, can bitcoin be used as a currency without an internet connection?

Yes, but with cavets.

Obviously, one can use paper wallets or Cascious coins like cash, just as others have pointed out, but it's also possible for two clients not connected to the Internet to transact so long as they can connect to one another.

For example, say you have two parties that both have mesh wifi on their smartphones, and bitcoin apps that will let the user do this (presently, as far as I know, no current bitcoin wallet clients would let the user do this).

Adam and Bob meet sometime during TEOTWAWKI, both have working smartphones, neither has any cell service.  Adam has canned goods & bullets for sale, Bob has only bitcoins to offer.  Assuming that Adam actually want's bitcoins due to the future outlook of the Internet, they agree to trade using bitcoins if they can manage it.  So long as the two apps can connect over the mesh wifi connection, Bob's client can create at least one transaction without needing access to the Bitcoin network, and it can send that transaction to Adam's phone.  So long as Adam's phone client has a local copy of the blockchain (or even just the blockchain headers and merkle trees, within risk conditions) it can verifty Bob's transaction as valid.  However, in the absence of Internet access, it's impossible for Adam to verifty that Bob isn't some hacker repeatedly spending the same bitcoins during the crisis.  The risk then is all Adam's.  He may choose to accept the transaction at face value, and forward it to the Bitcoin network at the next opprotunity.

Additionally, transactions can be created in advance that permits such an offline capable client to spend funds many times before it runs out of usable inputs.  It is generally assumed that the Bitcoincard hardware wallet would function in this manner on some level, assuming it's more than vaporware.
http://bitcoincard.org/

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
streetsmart (OP)
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December 06, 2013, 12:54:26 AM
 #6

In a scenario where trust is not required, can bitcoin be used as a currency without an internet connection?

Yes, but with cavets.

Obviously, one can use paper wallets or Cascious coins like cash, just as others have pointed out, but it's also possible for two clients not connected to the Internet to transact so long as they can connect to one another.

For example, say you have two parties that both have mesh wifi on their smartphones, and bitcoin apps that will let the user do this (presently, as far as I know, no current bitcoin wallet clients would let the user do this).

Adam and Bob meet sometime during TEOTWAWKI, both have working smartphones, neither has any cell service.  Adam has canned goods & bullets for sale, Bob has only bitcoins to offer.  Assuming that Adam actually want's bitcoins due to the future outlook of the Internet, they agree to trade using bitcoins if they can manage it.  So long as the two apps can connect over the mesh wifi connection, Bob's client can create at least one transaction without needing access to the Bitcoin network, and it can send that transaction to Adam's phone.  So long as Adam's phone client has a local copy of the blockchain (or even just the blockchain headers and merkle trees, within risk conditions) it can verifty Bob's transaction as valid.  However, in the absence of Internet access, it's impossible for Adam to verifty that Bob isn't some hacker repeatedly spending the same bitcoins during the crisis.  The risk then is all Adam's.  He may choose to accept the transaction at face value, and forward it to the Bitcoin network at the next opprotunity.

Additionally, transactions can be created in advance that permits such an offline capable client to spend funds many times before it runs out of usable inputs.  It is generally assumed that the Bitcoincard hardware wallet would function in this manner on some level, assuming it's more than vaporware.
http://bitcoincard.org/


Wow that really is amazing
Also, thank you for your response and thanks to the other posters too. I appreciate it
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