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Author Topic: Borrowed $1,000,000 (1 million dollars) from my dad to invest in BTC (serious)  (Read 18453 times)
crazy_rabbit
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December 06, 2013, 01:04:03 AM
 #21

Man if only you had tried doing this 6 months ago, just think about what that million would be today. Smiley

What? you don't think 6 months from now will feel just as spectacular as it does today?

more or less retired.
r00tbg
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December 06, 2013, 01:04:11 AM
 #22

Dafar,
Take some free advice:

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER trust a proposal for help, assistance or anything of any user of the forum, which has less than 600 comments and who is registered after 01.06.2012!
If you want help or advice, turn to theymos (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=35) Administrator here. I'm sure he will give you the most appropriate advice on how to invest your money.


If you ignore my advice is 99.99% likely to be deceived!

Being warned, best regards.
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December 06, 2013, 01:05:32 AM
 #23

did you hit the buy button yet?

Chang Hum
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December 06, 2013, 01:08:53 AM
 #24

Dafar,

Whatever you do don't take any advice from anyone who uses extra large, colored lettering or both. On internet forums using large lettering is considered shouting and therefore offensive. How would you like it if someone shouted advice in your face in real life whilst showering you in spit from their filthy obnoxious mouths?

If you come across such people politely tell them to jog on.
adamstgBit
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December 06, 2013, 01:12:27 AM
 #25

quickly buy bitcoin b4 OP does.  Cheesy

r00tbg
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December 06, 2013, 01:17:37 AM
 #26

Dafar,

Whatever you do don't take any advice from anyone who uses extra large, colored lettering or both. On internet forums using large lettering is considered shouting and therefore offensive. How would you like it if someone shouted advice in your face in real life whilst showering you in spit from their filthy obnoxious mouths?

If you come across such people politely tell them to jog on.

When it comes to 7-figure amount, I prefer to "scream in red," to be sure that I will be heard!
And my advice is to trust theymos.
And not like you (I do not know you and I do want to know you) that have 500-600 posts, but registered only 3-4 months ago. Maybe you're a normal person or you might be a fraud.
At least I gave useful advice, not like you!
DoubleMyCoins!
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December 06, 2013, 01:19:38 AM
 #27

It took me a lot of convincing but I somehow managed to convince him without telling him exactly what I would do with the money.

Not sure why it was so hard, my dad would loan me 1 million dollars blind no problem  Wink
Anon136
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December 06, 2013, 01:25:58 AM
 #28


It's only a million and it Isn't even a gift, its a loan, he has to pay it back. Not that lucky. Lots of people inherit a lot more than that with no strings attached.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
thehedgemon
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December 06, 2013, 01:27:38 AM
 #29

I promised him I will return the money to him by the end of 2014 with an extra $100k (10% interest). It took me a lot of convincing but I somehow managed to convince him without telling him exactly what I would do with the money. He thinks it's for a start up. I did not tell him that I'm gonna throw it all into bitcoins because I'm not exactly sure he understands or knows about it too much. If he found out about the price volatility of bitcoins I really doubt he would let me invest. But I am pretty confident that the price will at least rise up above where it is now before it crashes (if it does crash). I really think it would at least go back to where it was (~$1240/btc) at its highest point once more before going down for good. That would at least be a nice ~$200k profit and I feel like it's almost guaranteed.


Which brings me to my questions...

1. Am I being really stupid and optimistic to think this way? How much of a chance/risk do you think it is for the price to not go up any higher in 2014? IMO, it almost seems guaranteed the price will at least hit $1200-$1300/btc sometime next year.... or is there a risk that I'm not aware of?

2. I have a coinbase account and it only lets me buy a max of 50 BTC at a time. Is there a place where I can buy as many as I want w/o any limits?

3. Will I even be able to buy $1mil worth of BTCs? Does it depend on who's selling right at the moment I'm trying to buy some? How does this work?

4. Will I have to pay taxes on capital gains? I don't wanna pay shit to the US gov, how would they know how much I made off BTCs?





I'm thinking of putting an automatic sell order right when BTCs hit $1500 in 2014.... is that too high or should I put a lower limit? I want to guarantee some profit before I get too greedy and potentially lose my dad's money. I figured if I sell at $1500 it would be a nice $400k profit for me, I could quit my job and chill in Miami and Ibiza for a year until I need money again.


Serious advice only please, I'm not fucking trolling


Put it into Litecoin. It's well known that it will hit the major exchanges (ie Gox and probably BTC China). When that happens there will be a huge influx in price. Regardless if it is a bubble or not, you'll have a chance to double your money. At that point sell, and take the million you made to invest yourself.

BTC: 16HGf2iKT5WNAV6QEaRVwcjv8SVrcXi8G8
LTC: LhasgjKcuHec8oMPADNe8XAK5RXCd4h4D5
XRP: rQDdjhKbLRDe3K7MxPnnpp6k7XSMjPbt1B
Chang Hum
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December 06, 2013, 01:29:38 AM
 #30

Dafar,

Whatever you do don't take any advice from anyone who uses extra large, colored lettering or both. On internet forums using large lettering is considered shouting and therefore offensive. How would you like it if someone shouted advice in your face in real life whilst showering you in spit from their filthy obnoxious mouths?

If you come across such people politely tell them to jog on.

When it comes to 7-figure amount, I prefer to "scream in red," to be sure that I will be heard!
And my advice is to trust theymos.
And not like you (I do not know you and I do want to know you) that have 500-600 posts, but registered only 3-4 months ago. Maybe you're a normal person or you might be a fraud.
At least I gave useful advice, not like you!

You shouldn't do it colours and big shouty letters can destroy forums. I registered a year and 3-4 months ago and haven't given any serious advice on this thread so not sure why you're getting your panties in a twist.

You're advice wasn't useful. You're advice was serious (unlike mine) and telling him to trust someone he certainly doesn't need to take the risk of trusting.
cr1776
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December 06, 2013, 01:32:41 AM
 #31

One thing to consider is the Second Market fund instead of buying directly. They are well known, and not scammers. Sounds like you'd qualify as an accredited investor with that cash and income, but perhaps not.

Whatever you do, at least use an exchange vs a random person here.
adamstgBit
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December 06, 2013, 01:34:08 AM
 #32


It's only a million and it Isn't even a gift, its a loan, he has to pay it back. Not that lucky. Lots of people inherit a lot more than that with no strings attached.

this is just false

most poeple have about 600$ in their bank account and work over 40 hours a week

LouReed
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December 06, 2013, 01:42:01 AM
 #33

I promised him I will return the money to him by the end of 2014 with an extra $100k (10% interest). It took me a lot of convincing but I somehow managed to convince him without telling him exactly what I would do with the money. He thinks it's for a start up. I did not tell him that I'm gonna throw it all into bitcoins because I'm not exactly sure he understands or knows about it too much. If he found out about the price volatility of bitcoins I really doubt he would let me invest. But I am pretty confident that the price will at least rise up above where it is now before it crashes (if it does crash). I really think it would at least go back to where it was (~$1240/btc) at its highest point once more before going down for good. That would at least be a nice ~$200k profit and I feel like it's almost guaranteed.


Which brings me to my questions...

1. Am I being really stupid and optimistic to think this way? How much of a chance/risk do you think it is for the price to not go up any higher in 2014? IMO, it almost seems guaranteed the price will at least hit $1200-$1300/btc sometime next year.... or is there a risk that I'm not aware of?

2. I have a coinbase account and it only lets me buy a max of 50 BTC at a time. Is there a place where I can buy as many as I want w/o any limits?

3. Will I even be able to buy $1mil worth of BTCs? Does it depend on who's selling right at the moment I'm trying to buy some? How does this work?

4. Will I have to pay taxes on capital gains? I don't wanna pay shit to the US gov, how would they know how much I made off BTCs?





I'm thinking of putting an automatic sell order right when BTCs hit $1500 in 2014.... is that too high or should I put a lower limit? I want to guarantee some profit before I get too greedy and potentially lose my dad's money. I figured if I sell at $1500 it would be a nice $400k profit for me, I could quit my job and chill in Miami and Ibiza for a year until I need money again.


Serious advice only please, I'm not fucking trolling


Put it into Litecoin. It's well known that it will hit the major exchanges (ie Gox and probably BTC China). When that happens there will be a huge influx in price. Regardless if it is a bubble or not, you'll have a chance to double your money. At that point sell, and take the million you made to invest yourself.

+1 to this. Not so much the Gox thing, but IMHO, you would make much more money, and quicker in Litecoin. At current rate, you would get near 30,000 coins. I believe that Litecoin will be upwards of $100 in 6-9 months.

Just my 2 Satoshi!
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December 06, 2013, 01:43:30 AM
 #34

If possible, buy from BTC-E, in sets of 10-15 coins at a time. Their rates are much lower than Mt.Gox and Bitstamp. As you will be purchasing in bulk amounts... it is MUST to get the lowest possible purchase price.

The storage of the coins can be a big concern. Store them in at least 4 different wallets (offline / paper) and create a dozen backups for each of them.

BTW... I'd consider LTC and NMC extremely risky. Put no more than 10% of your investment in to them.
Chang Hum
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December 06, 2013, 01:46:03 AM
 #35

I think litecoins really risky, 4 times as many coins doesn't mean it should be 1/4 of the price even if it had as much credibility as Bitcoin. Some braniac worked out an equation for it last year that took into account what 4 times the market depth meant s = n^3 - t. That's not the equation but in most instances it meant litecoin should be 1/33 of bitcoin price and that's pretty much where it's always been.
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December 06, 2013, 01:46:53 AM
 #36

I currently have some BTCs in coinbase that I bought with my own money. Is it not secure? I still don't quite understand the concept of putting it in a "wallet" that resides in your harddrive.... I feel like that is more risky. What if the file accidentally gets deleted or my computer crashes?

You really need to learn the difference between paper wallets, cold software wallets, hot software wallets and online (web) wallets.
Try each in turn and perform some transactions from each with small amounts of bitcoin. Learn how to best secure and backup each of them.
Buying $1mn of bitcoins without knowing each of these important concepts in detail seems like a recipe for disaster.
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December 06, 2013, 01:48:18 AM
Last edit: December 06, 2013, 02:06:19 AM by TheDjinni
 #37

I promised him I will return the money to him by the end of 2014 with an extra $100k (10% interest). It took me a lot of convincing but I somehow managed to convince him without telling him exactly what I would do with the money.

Uh huh.  Nobody with $1m to burn will buy that you can make a $100k return in 1 year on a startup.  Most startups don't turn a profit until 5 years down the road.

This sounds like a joke, but I'll bite... I suppose he could be thinking you'll borrow to cover the difference when you don't meet your target, then learn a valuable life lesson when your investment fails and you're $400k in debt once you sell off your assets, and have to declare bankruptcy.

What he doesn't realize is that you're dumping it in something on purely speculative grounds and could double your money or lose it all by a difference of days.  It doesn't even sound like you understand how bitcoin works or what it even is.

I feel like it's almost guaranteed.

That's your first problem.  Bitcoin is not a get rich quick scheme, especially if you know little about how it works.  Speculative bubbles always benefit the moguls, veterans, and hawkish traders at the expense of the young, new, and inexperienced.

1. Am I being really stupid and optimistic to think this way? How much of a chance/risk do you think it is for the price to not go up any higher in 2014? IMO, it almost seems guaranteed the price will at least hit $1200-$1300/btc sometime next year.... or is there a risk that I'm not aware of?

This plan is insane.

Bitcoin always spikes in value after a media blitz via a speculative bubble, then crashes hard a few months later.  Those of us who have had their ear to the ground have seen it happen, first in May of 2011, then less so in Jan 2012, then again in August 2012.  Do NOT invest in $1 million in bitcoin unless you are prepared to lose $990,000 of it.

The recent media attention that bitcoin has received is the sole thing fueling this bubble.

See:

http://www.chrisnorstrom.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/mf_bitcoin6b_f.jpg

2. I have a coinbase account and it only lets me buy a max of 50 BTC at a time. Is there a place where I can buy as many as I want w/o any limits?

This is not a transaction you want to handle online with some random exchange.  Find a bunch then call them up and get a contract with a lawyer in tow, if you're crazy enough to do it.

3. Will I even be able to buy $1mil worth of BTCs? Does it depend on who's selling right at the moment I'm trying to buy some? How does this work?

I doubt there'll be enough sellers at any one point in time for you to drop $1 million into the market.  Dropping $1m in a day might actually cause the speculative bubble to burst, since you'd spike the value so quickly that the speculators will panic-sell.

You'd have to buy them up at a slower pace, but that just puts you at even greater risk.

4. Will I have to pay taxes on capital gains? I don't wanna pay shit to the US gov, how would they know how much I made off BTCs?

They'd call up whatever exchange service you used and ask them for the information.  If you made a significant return, the bank will notice and report it.  You WILL pay taxes on this, governments proactively look for and try to snap up smaller sums than this.  They would look at what you are doing as free money because you simply could not contest the wealth of evidence they will have on you.  And they'll sit on it for a year so that you pay interest.

I'm thinking of putting an automatic sell order right when BTCs hit $1500 in 2014.... is that too high or should I put a lower limit? I want to guarantee some profit before I get too greedy and potentially lose my dad's money. I figured if I sell at $1500 it would be a nice $400k profit for me, I could quit my job and chill in Miami and Ibiza for a year until I need money again.

Just repeat this mantra: "Bitcoin is not a get-rich-quick scheme, Bitcoin is not a get-rich-quick scheme, Bitcoin is not a get-rich-quick scheme..." until you realize how you're letting the euphoria of naked greed cloud your judgment.

What you should do: return the money to your father and say your projections were flawed as you realized that there were some fundamental problems with your idea.

Roughly the equivalent of borrowing money from your dad to put it all on roulette in Vegas.

Basically this.  The gamble is the day the bubble pops; bet safe and you make nothing, get greedy and you lose it all.  If you don't have experience day-trading and aren't prepared to sit at a computer 24/7 monitoring any change in value, you aren't ready for this.
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December 06, 2013, 01:49:08 AM
 #38


It's only a million and it Isn't even a gift, its a loan, he has to pay it back. Not that lucky. Lots of people inherit a lot more than that with no strings attached.

this is just false

most poeple have about 600$ in their bank account and work over 40 hours a week

as they spend all of their extra money on booze and lottery tickets instead of saving it Roll Eyes. I don't feel sorry for those people. I don't have a lot of income either, according to the government im "poor", but i chose to live below my already modest means, im thrifty, i save every extra penny and im definitely on track to having well over a million someday before i die.

*edit* this mostly only applies to people in the west. you could say that op is more lucky to have been born in the west than anything else.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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December 06, 2013, 01:49:45 AM
 #39

If possible, buy from BTC-E, in sets of 10-15 coins at a time. Their rates are much lower than Mt.Gox and Bitstamp. As you will be purchasing in bulk amounts... it is MUST to get the lowest possible purchase price.

The storage of the coins can be a big concern. Store them in at least 4 different wallets (offline / paper) and create a dozen backups for each of them.

BTW... I'd consider LTC and NMC extremely risky. Put no more than 10% of your investment in to them.

Saying this, you could just arb you're 10k bitstamp limit at a time, by feeding USD into bitcoin-e buying bitcoin and transfering to bitstamp/gox(providing they're not still ridiculously slow on transfers). You'd need to set up a bank account locally in prague (for reduced fees and speedy upload times) but would totally reduce risk and you could have you're own money to play with without risking your dads in a short amount of time.
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December 06, 2013, 01:50:49 AM
 #40

putting $1 million into bitcoin and not knowing how to secure your assets is just crazy to me.
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