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Author Topic: I want to short sell 3 000 bitcoins - Give 5 % interest per month  (Read 1347 times)
fastandfurious
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August 09, 2011, 11:32:11 AM
 #1

To the Bitcoin community, I want to short sell 3 000 bitcoins, and I will pay 5 % interest per month on the loan. I have my money in Mt.Gox that covers all the loan (hackers f*ck off nothing to get here, I have a Yubikey). I want to make this a secure deal for both parts. I know that there are people in here that don't want to sell, you can make money know.

5 % interest per month gives a annual rate at over 79 %. That is really good terms. I would like to be able to hold it for at least 2 months, and also have the option to close the position before hand.

If anyone is interested, tell me how we can do this in a secure way. Maybe I can contact Mt.Gox and they can take care of it. We really need the opportunity to short sell Bitcoins, it have many benefits, for example more liquidity, people can make money on their bitcoins if they don't want to sell.
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fastandfurious
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August 09, 2011, 11:37:51 AM
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5 % interest is 150 bitcoins per month.
gusti
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August 09, 2011, 11:39:55 AM
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let me understand better, if you already have your position in USD, what is the difference with shortselling btc ?
if you hold that position, it's the same as shortselling, or not ?

If you don't own the private keys, you don't own the coins.
fastandfurious
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August 09, 2011, 11:41:32 AM
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let me understand better, if you already have your position in USD, what is the difference with shortselling btc ?
if you hold that position, it's the same as shortselling, or not ?

I don't have any position in bitcoins. I have USD that equals 3000 bitcoins or more at 10 dollar/bitcoin.
Vladimir
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August 09, 2011, 11:43:47 AM
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I'd love to give such a loan. Unfortunately, though, I see no practical way for me to do so and mitigate all the risks involved to my satisfaction. Only with sufficient collateral maybe.

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gusti
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August 09, 2011, 11:44:36 AM
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let me understand better, if you already have your position in USD, what is the difference with shortselling btc ?
if you hold that position, it's the same as shortselling, or not ?

I don't have any position in bitcoins. I have USD that equals 3000 bitcoins or more at 10 dollar/bitcoin.

understood that, so what's the need to shortsell, if your position already in USD ?
if you are betting on a lower future rate, you can keep the dollars and buy btc later.

If you don't own the private keys, you don't own the coins.
fastandfurious
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August 09, 2011, 11:46:42 AM
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I'd love to give such a loan. Unfortunately, though, I see no practical way for me to do so and mitigate all the risks involved to my satisfaction. Only with sufficient collateral maybe.


Maybe Mt.Gox can take care of that?
fastandfurious
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August 09, 2011, 11:47:11 AM
 #8

let me understand better, if you already have your position in USD, what is the difference with shortselling btc ?
if you hold that position, it's the same as shortselling, or not ?

I don't have any position in bitcoins. I have USD that equals 3000 bitcoins or more at 10 dollar/bitcoin.

understood that, so what's the need to shortsell, if your position already in USD ?
if you are betting on a lower future rate, you can keep the dollars and buy btc later.

Making money both ways.
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August 09, 2011, 11:52:26 AM
 #9

I too would take up this deal with 1, maybe 2k BTC, but even with currently equivalent USD collateral I can’t be sure to get back 100% of the BTC in case it rallies hard.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
fastandfurious
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August 09, 2011, 11:54:23 AM
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I too would take up this deal with 1, maybe 2k BTC, but even with currently equivalent USD collateral I can’t be sure to get back 100% of the BTC in case it rallies hard.

You can have a stop loss a good bit under zero collateral. This market is open at all times.
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August 09, 2011, 11:56:05 AM
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I too would take up this deal with 1, maybe 2k BTC, but even with currently equivalent USD collateral I can’t be sure to get back 100% of the BTC in case it rallies hard.

Yep it would need 3x USD collateral, with margin call option.

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fastandfurious
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August 09, 2011, 11:57:39 AM
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I too would take up this deal with 1, maybe 2k BTC, but even with currently equivalent USD collateral I can’t be sure to get back 100% of the BTC in case it rallies hard.

Yep it would need 3x USD collateral, with margin call option.


That is way to much.
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August 09, 2011, 11:57:55 AM
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I know.

But so is volatility, and who is equipped here to manage risks minute by minute. Surely, not me.

Perhaps you can be better off looking for someone to buy puts from.

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August 09, 2011, 12:06:29 PM
 #14

I'm not willing to do this trade, risk is just too high. I think you're crazy to take that up.

Perhaps you can be better off looking for someone to buy puts from.
Does that bitcoin option site work these days?

Bitcoin Core developer [PGP] Warning: For most, coin loss is a larger risk than coin theft. A disk can die any time. Regularly back up your wallet through FileBackup Wallet to an external storage or the (encrypted!) cloud. Use a separate offline wallet for storing larger amounts.
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August 09, 2011, 12:12:06 PM
 #15

You might want to contact Keyur at CampBX.  They have short selling and margin trading capabilities (however I think they need volume to increase before they can enable those features).  That would be a safer alternative for the lender if you trust CampBX (and I think CampBX themselves will lend the bitcoins).  And of course they have collateral requirements & margin call rules.

(gasteve on IRC) Does your website accept cash? https://bitpay.com
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August 09, 2011, 12:14:33 PM
 #16

Issue with me: I don't want $30k in my MtGox acct.

In a scam-free world (coins at $10, up 25% last 60 minutes), I'd probably do 1500 coins for $30k+interest, and if price got to $20, I'm buying with that $30k and deal is settled.

good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment
fastandfurious
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August 09, 2011, 12:15:06 PM
 #17

I'm not willing to do this trade, risk is just too high. I think you're crazy to take that up.


Why is that crazy, I know that miners needs to get back their money (the ones that invested in May and June - just have a look at the amazing up swing in Hash levels those months), I know that 7200 bitcoins are mined per day. I guess that at least half of that is sold at the exchanges every day. That is more than 3600 bitcoins at 10 dollar (36 000 dollars) that will work towards making my position gain in value per day.
fastandfurious
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August 09, 2011, 12:17:17 PM
 #18

You might want to contact Keyur at CampBX.  They have short selling and margin trading capabilities (however I think they need volume to increase before they can enable those features).  That would be a safer alternative for the lender if you trust CampBX (and I think CampBX themselves will lend the bitcoins).  And of course they have collateral requirements & margin call rules.

CampBX is a option. But I think that Mt.Gox should enable this as soon as possible. I think that the mining sector of the Bitcoin economy is interested to be able to know their cash flows in advance.
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