Since you can give someone your wallet instantly, you can send instantly

[Interized]

Step 1 : Create program to accept Bitcoin wallets (the one on your computer right now this instant) as payment.

Example :
>> Sender has x wallet for entertainment expenses, sender keeps around 2 BTC in this wallet at all times.
>> Sender wants to pay for something in real life but it needs to be instant.
>> Receiver takes the users wallet, instantly transfering the coins to its own wallet.
>> Receiver does not need to wait for any confirmations since it has direct ownership access to the wallet.
>> Sender's wallet generates new address and receiver sends him or her the BTC change/difference.

?? Profit ??

Go.

[Remember remember the 5th of November]

What is your point exactly?

[Interized]

What is your point exactly?

For the people who believe the sending/receiving process takes too long, currently I don't see this way of transfer implemented, though anyone can freely code as they please.

Err... sending bitcoins is pretty much instant already.

The confirmations are for security...

If I send you a wallet.dat as payment, what prevents me from spending the coins on it immediately after I send it to you?

Please read my example model, you cannot undo what someone has already done, in this case the receiver would have already sent the BTC off.

[RoadTrain]

No matter how you transafer coins, you still can reverse the payment until you have confirmations.

So the user can still double-spend after giving the wallet to the receiver because he know his own private key.

[Interized]

Please read my example model, you cannot undo what someone has already done, in this case the receiver would have already sent the BTC off.

He still has to wait for confirmations to verify that I haven't sent the coins off to another address I control before he sent them off to an address he controls. Just because I send him a wallet doesn't mean I don't still have a copy to do with whatever I please.

Sorry... you've changed nothing yet added extra steps to a transfer.

No because receiver can verify if anyone has sent before.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Please read my example model, you cannot undo what someone has already done, in this case the receiver would have already sent the BTC off.

He still has to wait for confirmations to verify that I haven't sent the coins off to another address I control before he sent them off to an address he controls. Just because I send him a wallet doesn't mean I don't still have a copy to do with whatever I please.

Sorry... you've changed nothing yet added extra steps to a transfer.

No because receiver can verify if anyone has sent before.

Which is no different than a Bitcoin tx.

Bitcoin transactions are ALREADY nearly instantaneous.  To ensure they aren't double spent requires confirmation.

Your proposal doesn't remove the need for a confirmation to prevent a double spend.  There is no time savings at all, not even a small one.

[Interized]

Please read my example model, you cannot undo what someone has already done, in this case the receiver would have already sent the BTC off.

He still has to wait for confirmations to verify that I haven't sent the coins off to another address I control before he sent them off to an address he controls. Just because I send him a wallet doesn't mean I don't still have a copy to do with whatever I please.

Sorry... you've changed nothing yet added extra steps to a transfer.

No because receiver can verify if anyone has sent before.

Which is no different than a Bitcoin tx.

Bitcoin transactions are ALREADY nearly instantaneous.  To ensure they aren't double spent requires confirmation.

Your proposal doesn't remove the need for a confirmation to prevent a double spend.  There is no time savings at all, not even a small one.

I'm talking about Walmarts and every day places.

[Interized]

Please read my example model, you cannot undo what someone has already done, in this case the receiver would have already sent the BTC off.

He still has to wait for confirmations to verify that I haven't sent the coins off to another address I control before he sent them off to an address he controls. Just because I send him a wallet doesn't mean I don't still have a copy to do with whatever I please.

Sorry... you've changed nothing yet added extra steps to a transfer.

No because receiver can verify if anyone has sent before.

Yes, and until he gets confirmations that the coins are at an address that he alone controls, he is still vulnerable. So... he still needs to transfer the coins and wait for confirmation!

You aren't saving any time here, only adding an extra pointless step.

Why does he need to wait for a confirmation?

Sender is still tied to real life.

[romerun]

After sender gives wallet to receiver in exchange with the goods, sender double spends the coin from backup private keys of that wallet to another of his wallet

[odolvlobo]

Instant transfer is possible if neither the sender nor the receiver know the private keys in the transferred wallet, such as in the case of a Casascius coin. However, this introduces other risks.

[Interized]

Instant transfer is possible if neither the sender nor the receiver know the private keys in the transferred wallet, such as in the case of a Casascius coin. However, this introduces other risks.

Ah okay so then places like Walmart would have to tie one BTC address to you, then to process transactions instantly they would need to build credit over time allowing micro and small transactions to go through instantly within the created system.

This address would also be tied to your identify and this can have many more other uses than instant transactions. Making theft very difficult.

Like Bitcoin, you can't duplicate yourself.

[Interized]

Instant transfer is possible if neither the sender nor the receiver know the private keys in the transferred wallet, such as in the case of a Casascius coin. However, this introduces other risks.

Ah okay so then places like Walmart would have to tie one BTC address to you, then to process transactions instantly they would need to build credit over time allowing micro and small transactions to go through instantly within the created system.

This address would also be tied to your identify and this can have many more other uses than instant transactions.

Like Bitcoin, you can't duplicate yourself.

They could just accept credit cards built on top of bitcoin which will have all the disadvantages and advantages of credit cards today. The customer can then choose which payment method they prefer.

There is no reason a bitcoin credit card can't exist, it just hasn't happened yet (that I know of).

You go through the normal credit checks, you receive your card, you buy things, and at the end of the month you pay your bill, only you pay with bitcoins instead of fiat.

The system is already in place, no need to reinvent the wheel.

No one wants to carry around plastic.

I only carry my phone and an ID plus a credit card -- by force -- I'd rather pay for everything on my phone along with my identity.

Any pictures are on my phone, everything else I need is on my phone, I have no need for a physical wallet.

I have a thin phone case that allows a few cards to slip in.

At the end of the day, everything is going to merge into something, and I highly doubt plastic cards will be around in the future. We don't need any extra physical things, just adaptable devices with free market programming.

That being said, the crediting system is open to a free market and can easily be implemented for stores even using the basic windows software (which they do or other modified OS's)

[Interized]

Instant transfer is possible if neither the sender nor the receiver know the private keys in the transferred wallet, such as in the case of a Casascius coin. However, this introduces other risks.

Ah okay so then places like Walmart would have to tie one BTC address to you, then to process transactions instantly they would need to build credit over time allowing micro and small transactions to go through instantly within the created system.

This address would also be tied to your identify and this can have many more other uses than instant transactions.

Like Bitcoin, you can't duplicate yourself.

They could just accept credit cards built on top of bitcoin which will have all the disadvantages and advantages of credit cards today. The customer can then choose which payment method they prefer.

There is no reason a bitcoin credit card can't exist, it just hasn't happened yet (that I know of).

You go through the normal credit checks, you receive your card, you buy things, and at the end of the month you pay your bill, only you pay with bitcoins instead of fiat.

The system is already in place, no need to reinvent the wheel.

No one wants to carry around plastic.

I only carry my phone and an ID plus a credit card -- by force -- I'd rather pay for everything on my phone along with my identity.

I have a thin phone case that allows a few cards to slip in.

At the end of the day, everything is going to merge into something, and I highly doubt plastic cards will be around in the future. We don't need any extra physical things, just adaptable devices with free market programming.

That being said, crediting is open to a free market and can easily be implemented for stores even using the basic windows software (which they do or other modified OS's)

You can use credit cards with your phone via paypal (and other services) already. I'm sure technology will advance and eventually the plastic cards will be phased out, especially as a greater percentage of the population acquires smart phones. Then people paying directly with Bitcoin will get cash discounts.

Yes I have to pull out my card and enter a bunch of details blah blah blah, and I have to do this everywhere I go, annoying.

None of this stuff is universal or backed by decentralized and free systems.

I rather use a Bitcoin related system because anyone right now can create what I'm talking about.

We don't need the current banking/credit systems/banks/business as a middle man.

[oakpacific]

I heard a claim that OpenCXP actually tries to do that, you pay the merchant and give him your private key, the merchant sends the change back to another address of you, have yet to see an implementation yet.

[oakpacific]

Please read my example model, you cannot undo what someone has already done, in this case the receiver would have already sent the BTC off.

He still has to wait for confirmations to verify that I haven't sent the coins off to another address I control before he sent them off to an address he controls. Just because I send him a wallet doesn't mean I don't still have a copy to do with whatever I please.

Sorry... you've changed nothing yet added extra steps to a transfer.

No because receiver can verify if anyone has sent before.

Yes, and until he gets confirmations that the coins are at an address that he alone controls, he is still vulnerable. So... he still needs to transfer the coins and wait for confirmation!

You aren't saving any time here, only adding an extra pointless step.

Why does he need to wait for a confirmation?

Sender is still tied to real life.

The receiver needs to wait for a confirmation because if the receiver doesn't then the sender can take his copy of the wallet and send those coins to an address that only he controls. In which case the receiver will be holding an empty wallet.

I'm not sure what you are talking about when you say, "tied to real life".

If say, the merchant has the private key, then he can basically replicate anything the original sender does.

[Interized]

Instant transfer is possible if neither the sender nor the receiver know the private keys in the transferred wallet, such as in the case of a Casascius coin. However, this introduces other risks.

Ah okay so then places like Walmart would have to tie one BTC address to you, then to process transactions instantly they would need to build credit over time allowing micro and small transactions to go through instantly within the created system.

This address would also be tied to your identify and this can have many more other uses than instant transactions.

Like Bitcoin, you can't duplicate yourself.

They could just accept credit cards built on top of bitcoin which will have all the disadvantages and advantages of credit cards today. The customer can then choose which payment method they prefer.

There is no reason a bitcoin credit card can't exist, it just hasn't happened yet (that I know of).

You go through the normal credit checks, you receive your card, you buy things, and at the end of the month you pay your bill, only you pay with bitcoins instead of fiat.

The system is already in place, no need to reinvent the wheel.

No one wants to carry around plastic.

I only carry my phone and an ID plus a credit card -- by force -- I'd rather pay for everything on my phone along with my identity.

I have a thin phone case that allows a few cards to slip in.

At the end of the day, everything is going to merge into something, and I highly doubt plastic cards will be around in the future. We don't need any extra physical things, just adaptable devices with free market programming.

That being said, crediting is open to a free market and can easily be implemented for stores even using the basic windows software (which they do or other modified OS's)

You can use credit cards with your phone via paypal (and other services) already. I'm sure technology will advance and eventually the plastic cards will be phased out, especially as a greater percentage of the population acquires smart phones. Then people paying directly with Bitcoin will get cash discounts.

Yes I have to pull out my card and enter a bunch of details blah blah blah, and I have to do this everywhere I go, annoying.

None of this stuff is universal or backed by decentralized and free systems.

I rather use a Bitcoin related system because anyone right now can create what I'm talking about.

We don't need the current banking/credit systems/banks/business as a middle man.

I'd like to also add for example all the mom and pop stores I seen use regular OS systems (regular places -- gas stations, grocery stores, fast food etc.) some I saw they were even using Windows Vista (yuck)

Don't tell me the public can't come up with this and convince these guys to accept BTC, when it will cost them nothing to implement.

They don't need to get approved by a bank, creditor, PayPal, etc. to start accepting BTC.

We only need the open source program, a way for the business/user to easily secure the BTC, and then a device (possibly current scanners could work for phone scan they general stores already use) to accept it through devices instantly and even quicker than a credit card. This can be done NOW.

[Interized]

Yes I have to pull out my card and enter a bunch of details blah blah blah, and I have to do this everywhere I go, annoying.

None of this stuff is universal or backed by decentralized and free systems.

I rather use a Bitcoin related system because anyone right now can create what I'm talking about.

We don't need the current banking/credit systems/banks/business as a middle man.

Sure... but you are talking about instant transactions based on trust of your identity. That requires a middleman of some sort: An entity which verifies your identity and keeps records about how trustworthy you are.

You only need the public record for the buyers BTC address. They still need to build reputation over time just like anything else.

I'm sure government will also require you to register your BTC address with them IF BTC is to keep succeeding the way it is.

That way everyone can track you.

[Interized]

Yes I have to pull out my card and enter a bunch of details blah blah blah, and I have to do this everywhere I go, annoying.

None of this stuff is universal or backed by decentralized and free systems.

I rather use a Bitcoin related system because anyone right now can create what I'm talking about.

We don't need the current banking/credit systems/banks/business as a middle man.

Sure... but you are talking about instant transactions based on trust of your identity. That requires a middleman of some sort: An entity which verifies your identity and keeps records about how trustworthy you are.

You only need the public record for the buyers BTC address. They still need to build reputation over time just like anything else.

I'm sure government will also require you to register your BTC address with them IF BTC is to keep succeeding the way it is.

That way everyone can track you.

I'm sorry, you just aren't thinking things through. You say no middlemen, then talk about middlemen. You aren't making any sense.

You only need someone to create the system, not run it.

[beetcoin]

i don't think giving your wallet to someone would work.. it would be like getting a chargeback. if you bought something from me, and handed me your private key.. well, that means you could have a backup private key. and you'd transfer the funds out before i got home and then i'd lose whatever i sold you.

[Voodah]

This thread makes no sense.

I think you are failing to understand how all of these work:

+ Wallets
+ Addresses
+ Private/public keys
+ Transactions
+ Confirmations

So.. umm.. yeah.. basically some of the core concepts of Bitcoin.

You have a lot of reading to do.