[ANN] "BitBaY" Commission Bonds thread!

[vesperwillow]

Haven't had time to fully read over the PM/info, I will sometime today.

Cheeky, I appreciate your comment/support. I would like to be a large part of something like this but my schedule is unforgiving at the moment with other projects. I will evaluate the situation, and talk to some trusted backend coders that I know, who are actually in midlevel and seniority for this sort of thing--not right out of college.

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[cassieheart]

Cheeky I am unsure who you are or what your angle is but you are not helping at this point you are just fueling the fire.
The frequency and the nature of you post are starting to make you look like a troll. Me giving up here is not a option and it never was.
If you want to help great but at this point your not doing the project any good. So either contribute something positive or take a seat.

Just an FYI I am back for a time and in discussion with Cassie... while you have a very attractive offer on the table Cheeky... to ask Cassie to step aside with what equates to a 1% profit per week payout... i can say that any of us here in her shoes would also scoff at that...

You may think otherwise... but please... have a bit of patience while we try to hash out something beneficial to everyone involved... and even given the trouble that has come to this project... Cassie deserves some fairness.

Communication and clarity are forthcoming... you have my word on that.

~Daemon

Daemon, if she hands over the BTC to you or Vesper to launch your own BitMit site then her involvement in the 'project' ends as she has nothing to offer in terms of knowledge or skill.

I think it is the investors who deserve fairness nor her because this whole sinking ship of a project is at the state where it is because of her complete and utter incompetence so far as her business acumen (or lack of) is concerned. She is not letting go of the shareholders BTC because it is the only thing she has to hold leverage over the investors.

She should accept that she cannot deliver anything. She was using your funds to get a rent-a-coder to make the site and she failed miserably at that too because she cannot handle deadlines and project management.

Let her continue with her 'project' with her own funding from her own money, we wish her success and we will all help her out as and when we can with advice and tips but the bottom line is she should return the remaining 4.175BTC and allow you to develop your own BitMit.

I will respond to your PM later when I get a chance. Thanks.

[CheekyChappy]

@Vesper
I understand the situation regarding unforgiving schedules. I am also under a mountain of workload and time is of the essence. It would be good to hear your views about the trusted coders you mentioned.

@Daemon
I will try to respond to you now via PM

[U1TRA_L0RD]

If I were a shareholder, I would just get my funds and leave, Not worth it going through this again.

[CheekyChappy]

If I were a shareholder, I would just get my funds and leave, Not worth it going through this again.

I agree but the problem is there was 11BTC raised in 'shares' and now there is allegedly just 4.125BTC remaining with Cassie because Justin stole 6.825BTC.

I do not have high hopes of this project succeeding while Cassie is trying to maintain control over it but there is chance it could succeed if Vesper, Daemon and possibly a couple of people nominate themselves for the Project Manager role and one or more are elected.

[U1TRA_L0RD]

I have never been a shareholder, How does it work? Is it very risky? Thanks!

[cassieheart]

Yes it is risky, almost all bit coin investments are considered high risk . That is why you should never invest more than you can afford to lose.

I have never been a shareholder, How does it work? Is it very risky? Thanks!

[CheekyChappy]

I have never been a shareholder, How does it work? Is it very risky? Thanks!

I noticed she answered one of your questions and ignored the other. Being a shareholder in this type of enterprise is not a risk if it is managed properly since the investment is so low and even loss sustaining projects could recoup the initial outlay to pay back all shareholders.

As for the first question you asked: "How does it work", it needs to be stated for the record that the Cassie never actually listed "how it works" with full clarity before asking for investments and never stated which legal rights/protection the shareholders have and she never stated their legal status and recourse to any dispute which may arise. Some shareholders believe they have invested in BitBay (a legal entity/company) and some investors believe they have invested with Cassie who in-turn will invest in BitBay on their behalf.

To answer you question in a nutshell: Cassie stated she was selling 50% of all profits from 'auctions' to shareholders (ie investors). She never clarified what was to define as 'auctions'. She never defined the length of time the shareholders have assets with the BitBay but according to her they purchased a percentage of the BitBay undefined 'auctions' profits.

Going by the above, if BitBay and/or the company were to fold none of the investors would get anything back and they have no legal recourse to investigate or challenge her management of the project. However unlikely the scenario, if BitBay and/or the company became an economic superpower such as eBay then she expects everyone to believe that for an investment of less that $7000 she will part with 50% of profit of all undefined 'auctions' BitBay generates and she will make payments to shareholders on a weekly basis for the next 1, 2, 3, 10, 25, 50 years (forever even) that BitBay will run.

Ultra thank your lucky stars you did not invest in this 'project' because for a project manager running a simple low cost project such as this to state as an answer to your second question: "Yes it is risky, almost all bit coin investments are considered high risk . That is why you should never invest more than you can afford to lose." gives clarity as to whether that person should be running the show.

This 'project' is not like going to CoiunedUp or Cryptsy and purchasing various crypto not knowing if you would a loss or not in the coming days/weeks. This 'project' was sold to gullible investors without properly explaining to them what they were buying in to and what their all round legal status would be. Once a site like this is up and running it is next to impossible for it to not generate money in the long run.

For a project manager to turn around and say after receiving around $7000 of investment that it is a risk investors may get nothing is pathetic considering the investment was not in the millions for rocket science research nor for nuclear physics research! The investment was for a small website that any decent level coder could create for a small fee and then take live within 21 days. It was to be hosted and protected, secured and then monetised within weeks of going live. Having said that, $7000 was too much investment for a tiny project (one that did not need financing in the first place) as the only outlay was a website rent-a-coder and then add to that hosting and SSL fees.

All investors have accepted Justin will not return the 6.825BTC of stolen funds yet Cassie has not reported him to the police for theft, nor for making threats to kill her and for a whole host of other matters. Instead she re-hired him to finish of part of the site in order to make it go live!

We wait to see where this project goes as some investors are trying to push the project forward with interesting ideas but Cassie is clinging on to it and the remaining 4.125BTC (which her chosen rent-a-coder Justin did not steal) with dear life.

[U1TRA_L0RD]

I have never been a shareholder, How does it work? Is it very risky? Thanks!

I noticed she answered one of your questions and ignored the other. Being a shareholder in this type of enterprise is not a risk if it is managed properly since the investment is so low and even loss sustaining projects could recoup the initial outlay to pay back all shareholders.

As for the first question you asked: "How does it work", it needs to be stated for the record that the Cassie never actually listed "how it works" with full clarity before asking for investments and never stated which legal rights/protection the shareholders have and she never stated their legal status and recourse to any dispute which may arise. Some shareholders believe they have invested in BitBay (a legal entity/company) and some investors believe they have invested with Cassie who in-turn will invest in BitBay on their behalf.

To answer you question in a nutshell: Cassie stated she was selling 50% of all profits from 'auctions' to shareholders (ie investors). She never clarified what was to define as 'auctions'. She never defined the length of time the shareholders have assets with the BitBay but according to her they purchased a percentage of the BitBay undefined 'auctions' profits.

Going by the above, if BitBay and/or the company were to fold none of the investors would get anything back and they have no legal recourse to investigate or challenge her management of the project. However unlikely the scenario, if BitBay and/or the company became an economic superpower such as eBay then she expects everyone to believe that for an investment of less that $7000 she will part with 50% of profit of all undefined 'auctions' BitBay generates and she will make payments to shareholders on a weekly basis for the next 1, 2, 3, 10, 25, 50 years (forever even) that BitBay will run.

Ultra thank your lucky stars you did not invest in this 'project' because for a project manager running a simple low cost project such as this to state as an answer to your second question: "Yes it is risky, almost all bit coin investments are considered high risk . That is why you should never invest more than you can afford to lose." gives clarity as to whether that person should be running the show.

This 'project' is not like going to CoiunedUp or Cryptsy and purchasing various crypto not knowing if you would a loss or not in the coming days/weeks. This 'project' was sold to gullible investors without properly explaining to them what they were buying in to and what their all round legal status would be. Once a site like this is up and running it is next to impossible for it to not generate money in the long run.

For a project manager to turn around and say after receiving around $7000 of investment that it is a risk investors may get nothing is pathetic considering the investment was not in the millions for rocket science research nor for nuclear physics research! The investment was for a small website that any decent level coder could create for a small fee and then take live within 21 days. It was to be hosted and protected, secured and then monetised within weeks of going live. Having said that, $7000 was too much investment for a tiny project (one that did not need financing in the first place) as the only outlay was a website rent-a-coder and then add to that hosting and SSL fees.

All investors have accepted Justin will not return the 6.825BTC of stolen funds yet Cassie has not reported him to the police for theft, nor for making threats to kill her and for a whole host of other matters. Instead she re-hired him to finish of part of the site in order to make it go live!

We wait to see where this project goes as some investors are trying to push the project forward with interesting ideas but Cassie is clinging on to it and the remaining 4.125BTC (which her chosen rent-a-coder Justin did not steal) with dear life.

Wow, This is one of the best complex schemes, If was a shareholder and got scammed, I would file a lawsuit. I wish the best of luck to everyone. and thanks chappy for the info, It was very thorough.

[CheekyChappy]

Wow, This is one of the best complex schemes, If was a shareholder and got scammed, I would file a lawsuit. I wish the best of luck to everyone. and thanks chappy for the info, It was very thorough.

@Ultra
You are most welcome

@Vesper and Daemon
Do you have any feedback regarding my PM or any other update or views in general?

[daemonfox]

Wow, This is one of the best complex schemes, If was a shareholder and got scammed, I would file a lawsuit. I wish the best of luck to everyone. and thanks chappy for the info, It was very thorough.

@Ultra
You are most welcome

@Vesper and Daemon
Do you have any feedback regarding my PM or any other update or views in general?

Honestly, my view is that arguing (or in the case of you and I etc, discussing) anything here is nearly pointless given the position we are in. I am pretty much over trying to put any effort into posting on this thread...

I am also leaving town for a week and though I will have internet access... most of my waking time will be involved with IRL team members and more work. As such, you will probably not here anything from me before Saturday sometime next weekend.

IDK what else there is to do really... we can plan and discuss till the world implodes... nothing we want is going to happen unless a completely separate project is created by someone and without the funding from here.

I am just content right now to not deal with any of it and see what Cassie can accomplish in a week, maybe a preview of something legit will appear.

~Daemon

[CheekyChappy]

I hope you manage to find some time to enjoy yourself while away. Looking forward to your views when you get back or when you have time.

[aTriz]

I'm so confused on what's going on. I don't know if the site is being launched, what we are waiting on? I don't see how this could possibly work unless you somehow earn peoples trust back. The only way you do that is by returning the 4ish BTC that is left. Though what do I know I just did the exact same thing with hashcows (like I stated earlier paying back over 40 BTC from which was stolen by a hacker)

[CheekyChappy]

I'm so confused on what's going on. I don't know if the site is being launched, what we are waiting on? I don't see how this could possibly work unless you somehow earn peoples trust back. The only way you do that is by returning the 4ish BTC that is left. Though what do I know I just did the exact same thing with hashcows (like I stated earlier paying back over 40 BTC from which was stolen by a hacker)

Very good point. You returned 40BTC to miners after you got hacked. You said earlier you could have simply not have paid up but you did and that is a testament to the way you conducted yourself during that difficult time. Well done for your openness and the manner in which you dealt with that issue.

Here, sadly, Cassie the project leader posted some weeks back that a new rent-a-coder team (MentalGauge) were hired to make a completely new BitBay store and a URL to view an image was provided http://mentalgauge.com/bitbay.jpg.




Cassie then did not explain to anyone why the MentalGauge team were no longer working on the project, if they actually started anything at all and how much she may have paid them (thus possibly losing more of investors' money).

She went a step further and shocked everyone because she did not explain why she unilaterally decided to go back to Justin (the rent-a-coder who stole 6.825BTC from the project) to ask him to carry on coding the original BitBay website which seems to be based on the $47 turnkey solution.

Even if they manage launch a BitBay website, where does it end for investors?

Investors have invested on the basis that Cassie stated 50% of all profits from auctions (Cassie never defined what that means) will be paid on a weekly basis to all investors based on their shareholding.

By default this means if someone purchased/invested 1 share for say 0.075BTC then he or she will forever receive on a weekly basis 1/258 shares worth of profit based on her keeping 50% of the profits and investors keeping the rest! So if the website turns over a first year undefined auctions profit of 200BTC, she expects everyone to believe that she will keep 100BTC and the other 100BTC will be split into 258 shares @ 0.3875BTC per each shareholder will always receive their monies on time! How ridiculous for anyone to expect that she will do that regardless of how miniscule the amount of dividends might be!

Fast forward 20 years... if this 'project' becomes even 1% of what eBay is, she expects everyone to believe that she will make payments valued at tens of thousands of dollars on a weekly basis for the rest her lifetime and after she dies the new owners will continue making weekly payments to investors yet is she is a project manager who cannot even inform the police that someone she hired to work on 'her' project with YOUR money has stolen a staggering 6.825BTC of it and is using it as living expenses! Investors have no legal contract with her or with BitBay, investors have no right to legal options to leave their shareholdings in a will, investors are not protected at all... investors have no legal protection within BitBay as there is no real contract in place, it is all open ended mumbo-jumbo based on her stating she will do this and she will do that and that is all!

The only thing investors have is enough evidence to go to the police and report the whole matter and then let the police and criminal justice system decide what Cassie and Justin may or may not have done.

Simple as this:
Involve the police = investors get their BTC back
Do not involve the police = investors keep on waiting...

In her 'contract' there is no specification with regards to taxation and adhering to various other regulations which could possibly make the whole enterprise illegal because around 6.825BTC worth thousands of dollars were stolen and she did not even report it as a crime. Now, if that is not mismanagement on a gigantic unforgivable scale then what is?

Think about it, someone she hires to code a website ends up stealing thousands of dollars worth of YOUR investment and she did not report it to the police! Instead went back to him to ask him to start working on the website again so how can you trust her to do anything right in the future? What a pathetic, disastrous episode in project management!

In the very unlikely scenario this 'project' does see the light of day then I assure you it will create more problems than there are now because no-one will believe her when she starts giving out profit/loss figures. She has not even defined to any investors what she claims are "auction profits". In the unlikely scenario this website went live, she could effectively unilaterally re-invest profits for example marketing/advertising or invisible 'costs' to offset investors profits and then state there were no profits for such and such period.

This whole 'project' was a disaster from the beginning because Cassie the project manager was an utterly incompetent individual with no business acumen in the slightest.

aTriz: you are not the only one who is confused... all investors are. She received a phenomenal 11BTC of investment for this 'project' when it could have gotten off the ground by now with next to nothing in funding. She claims 4.175BTC is secure with her and 6.825BTC was stolen by Justin.

I feel sorry all investors being sucked in to this pathetic soap opera which has to be said is written, produced and directed by Cassie.

[CheekyChappy]

As I have stated before all round 1 funds are safe and secure with me. There is no scam going on here. I am simply having Justin finish what he was payed to do.    
He has agreed to finish what he started. I have thought it over and think this is the best route to take.

This gives the investors what they payed for and the community a legit place to sell their items safely.
He will not have Full Server admin access after the site goes live. Everything is going to be registered in my name.
Everything will be secure and looked over by a third party.



There is still more to work out. I am working day and night to pull this all together.

~cassie

Yes it is risky, almost all bit coin investments are considered high risk . That is why you should never invest more than you can afford to lose.

I have never been a shareholder, How does it work? Is it very risky? Thanks!

It has been 5 days since you posted here. Even then there was no real update, just a mini warning that investors might have lost all their BTC which was entrusted to you.

It has been 8 days since you informed everyone that you re-hired Justin to complete the project but you have not given an update like Project Managers do with investors.

Could you please post here and give everyone an update. Is the site complete? Is Justin still working on it? You wrote on 22 January 2014 stating you were working on it day and night. Please let us know what is going on with the project. Is it 90% complete yet? Can you give an estimated completion date?

Thank you.

[transit]

I want my coins back.

I transferred 1.25 BTC for 50 shares
https://blockchain.info/tx/7b040ef9a1a04ccd7355514b638da6e876d97e3f152abc4d4f94e2613931208c?currency=MBC

BTC address to deposit the refund:
18hsXG9v252B7zpNPY7ZnjBAA6A5MdZict

Thanks,

[lajz99]

I would like my .05 back as well, this is a bunch of bullshit...

[CheekyChappy]

I want my coins back.

I transferred 1.25 BTC for 50 shares
https://blockchain.info/tx/7b040ef9a1a04ccd7355514b638da6e876d97e3f152abc4d4f94e2613931208c?currency=MBC

BTC address to deposit the refund:
18hsXG9v252B7zpNPY7ZnjBAA6A5MdZict

Thanks,

1.25BTC is a lot of money, I feel sorry for you since the project manager cannot be bothered to update her investors. What a shame and what a disgrace.

As much as I feel sorry for you, I feel much more sorry for someone like Marty19 because he paid 3.75BTC for his 50 'shares' @ 0.075BTC and another 0.375BTC for 15 'shares' @ 0.025BTC. Having said that I feel sad that all investors have been messed around so much by someone they trusted but she totally let you all down.

What a sorry state of affairs we find ourselves in when this whole 'project' could have been up and running by now. This project has been disgracefully mismanaged by the project manager. Investors are openly demanding their funds back, we wait to see how she responds.

[vesperwillow]

I haven't ignored this topic, I've just been pulled in many directions. I looked over the google doc, I like a lot of what's there.

Right now foremost in my mind is, what's the sitrep of what cassie and justin have recently agreed on?

Keep in mind this is your last chance. You need something legit to launch pretty much now, or the project is going to disintegrate, mainly due to rising competition.

Regarding return of shares, I'm willing to take ownership of the domain names in place of the share, unless the project is ready to go live. By taking ownership, I will not keep the domain for myself. If I happen to produce an auction site for cryptocurrencies, I will have the domain point to the appropriate servers regardless of name. If another place pops up and wants to buy it, I will be open to that as well.

This is for the community afterall.

[CheekyChappy]

The most important thing to note is that Cassie does not regularly update investors or the community. As mentioned before on numerous occasions, her lack of business acumen and utter incompetence on a project management basis is clear for all to see.

You cannot blame investors for wanting their funds back.

For all investors who want their money back here is a link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=441329