Your view on shale gas exploration ?

[bryant.coleman]

It is a more or less tacitly understood fact that OPEC nations are lying out of their asses about how much oil they have left.

Why blame the OPEC when your own leaders are under the control of the petroleum lobby.

How many people know that bio-diesel is much cheaper (at current) rates when compared to crude oil?

Still, most of the nations levy unrealistic taxes on bio-diesel and discourages the production.

[Honeypot]

It is a more or less tacitly understood fact that OPEC nations are lying out of their asses about how much oil they have left.

Why blame the OPEC when your own leaders are under the control of the petroleum lobby.

How many people know that bio-diesel is much cheaper (at current) rates when compared to crude oil?

Still, most of the nations levy unrealistic taxes on bio-diesel and discourages the production.

I don't recall 'blaming' anyone, but I suppose your filter gave you that idea. Fuck OPEC, sure. I also find it amusing you can talk about 'our leaders being under the control of petroleum lobby'.

Industry and political figures form a give and take relationship. It's a complex, symbiotic relationship where much of it is a balancing act of influence, finances, and political advancement coupled with economic domination assisted by such acts which ultimately work to secure national interests. It's not so simple as squealing 'they are all under the REAL control of ***** lobby!!!!11!!!!!1!!'.

If you want to spout simplistic bullshit about conspiracies, I suggest you try wikipedia instead.

[Spendulus]

.....I also find it amusing you can talk about 'our leaders being under the control of petroleum lobby'.

Industry and political figures form a give and take relationship. It's a complex, symbiotic relationship where much of it is a balancing act of influence, finances, and political advancement coupled with economic domination assisted by such acts which ultimately work to secure national interests. It's not so simple as squealing 'they are all under the REAL control of ***** lobby!!!!11!!!!!1!!'.

If you want to spout simplistic bullshit about conspiracies, I suggest you try wikipedia instead.

Yeah, biodiesel is not cheap or easy to produce in quantity.  What's easy to produce is methane from natural gas, that can be delivered to the pump for less than 2USD/gallon.  Process is simply passing high temperature steam over the methane to strip some H+, let the carbon pick up OH, then concentrate the methanol that falls out.   One or two more steps and you have dimethyl ether, which runs in diesel engines.

Interesting problem is people with a preference for 'bio' this and 'green that' don't like alcohol produced from natural gas...but it's half the price.  

It is a more or less tacitly understood fact that OPEC nations are lying out of their asses about how much oil they have left. .....only sticking point here is that we should make sure other nations use up their resources while we keep ours close at hand. It was a good move to get the first hand into the game, but we must make sure we come out on top.....

....what it means for us to come out on top.  We need a positive balance of payments based on energy exports, since the fracking revolution is what will pull us out of the current depression.  And it's the only thing that will.  Yes that means we would not have to do the bidding of Saudi kings, but they do have some problems over there that merit some kinds of support.

[bryant.coleman]

If you want to spout simplistic bullshit about conspiracies, I suggest you try wikipedia instead.

I was one of the most active editors in Wikipedia until 2011. I know very well how the propagandist organizations are using it right now.. I will not use it even for basic information.

[Wilikon]

You guys should also consider there are varieties of bacteria that produce the needed components for fuel ( ethanol etc. ) by themselves or through some scientific trickery, there's also algae out there too and I have always been an advocate of Hydrogen Fuel Cells because they only produce water as a byproduct so everybody is happy that way.

Maybe getting fuel from algae on a massive scale will have less impact than sugar cane/corn? But some may think having to use genetically modified bacteria for a better production output could unleash another type of disaster.

[Lethn]

You guys should also consider there are varieties of bacteria that produce the needed components for fuel ( ethanol etc. ) by themselves or through some scientific trickery, there's also algae out there too and I have always been an advocate of Hydrogen Fuel Cells because they only produce water as a byproduct so everybody is happy that way.

Maybe getting fuel from algae on a massive scale will have less impact than sugar cane/corn? But some may think having to use genetically modified bacteria for a better production output could unleash another type of disaster.

That's the thing there are so many ideas out there that are actually realistic, it's just a matter of applying them in the right way.

[Wilikon]

You guys should also consider there are varieties of bacteria that produce the needed components for fuel ( ethanol etc. ) by themselves or through some scientific trickery, there's also algae out there too and I have always been an advocate of Hydrogen Fuel Cells because they only produce water as a byproduct so everybody is happy that way.

Maybe getting fuel from algae on a massive scale will have less impact than sugar cane/corn? But some may think having to use genetically modified bacteria for a better production output could unleash another type of disaster.

That's the thing there are so many ideas out there that are actually realistic, it's just a matter of applying them in the right way.

100 years from now they will look back at us with our oil/shale gas/mid air bird frying massive solar panels solution and think "Wow I can't believe we were that primitive" while sipping a green goo, enjoying the view on Earth from their space villa bought in bitcoins...

[cryptasm]

Fracking may increase health risks, scientists warn

Study of water pollution at sites in the US finds hormone-disrupting chemicals in the environment

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/dec/17/fracking-increase-health-risks-hormone


"Fracking may increase health risks from hormone-disrupting chemicals released into the environment, say researchers.

Scientists sounded the warning after studying water pollution at sites in the US where the controversial natural gas drilling technique is used.

The team looked at 12 suspected or known "endocrine disrupting chemicals" (EDCs) used in fracking operations and measured their ability to mimic or block the effects of reproductive hormones.

Water samples from drilling sites with a record of spillages had levels of the chemicals high enough to interfere with the body's responses to male hormones, as well as oestrogen".

[bryant.coleman]

That's the thing there are so many ideas out there that are actually realistic, it's just a matter of applying them in the right way.

Nothing can be achieved without exponentially larger funding for the research in to green-oil. The funding is difficult to achieve, as the OPEC cartel is using various blackmail tactics.

[cczarek123]

We need really new breakthroughs like nuclear fusion, not the shitty gas that destroys environment in the large scales!

[bryant.coleman]

We need really new breakthroughs like nuclear fusion, not the shitty gas that destroys environment in the large scales!

Even the current technology of generating electricity using nuclear fission is far better than burning gas or coal to generate the same. I don't know why all those environmentalists oppose nuclear energy. If you take all the necessary security precautions, nuclear energy is the cheapest and cleanest form of energy which is available to us.

[cryptasm]

....nuclear energy is the cheapest and cleanest form of energy which is available to us.

The nuclear industry would collapse overnight without government subsidies, it's one of the most inefficient ways to produce electricity. If people want small government, who's going to pay for the handouts to the nuclear industry?

[Lethn]

We need really new breakthroughs like nuclear fusion, not the shitty gas that destroys environment in the large scales!

Even the current technology of generating electricity using nuclear fission is far better than burning gas or coal to generate the same. I don't know why all those environmentalists oppose nuclear energy. If you take all the necessary security precautions, nuclear energy is the cheapest and cleanest form of energy which is available to us.

If you're talking about cold fusion and other forms of Nuclear Power that don't have major meltdowns which will cause the end of humanity then I'm all for it but these people who think it's a good idea to put nuclear bombs right next to highly populated areas scare the shit out of me and it makes you realise just how little they give a fuck about human beings.

[Ekaros]

We need really new breakthroughs like nuclear fusion, not the shitty gas that destroys environment in the large scales!

Even the current technology of generating electricity using nuclear fission is far better than burning gas or coal to generate the same. I don't know why all those environmentalists oppose nuclear energy. If you take all the necessary security precautions, nuclear energy is the cheapest and cleanest form of energy which is available to us.

If you're talking about cold fusion and other forms of Nuclear Power that don't have major meltdowns which will cause the end of humanity then I'm all for it but these people who think it's a good idea to put nuclear bombs right next to highly populated areas scare the shit out of me and it makes you realise just how little they give a fuck about human beings.

Nuclear bombs?

Nuclear is best CO2 free way of producing energy. Coal and shale gas isn't bad if pollution is something not cared about.

[Wilikon]

Fracking may increase health risks, scientists warn

Study of water pollution at sites in the US finds hormone-disrupting chemicals in the environment

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/dec/17/fracking-increase-health-risks-hormone


"Fracking may increase health risks from hormone-disrupting chemicals released into the environment, say researchers.

Scientists sounded the warning after studying water pollution at sites in the US where the controversial natural gas drilling technique is used.

The team looked at 12 suspected or known "endocrine disrupting chemicals" (EDCs) used in fracking operations and measured their ability to mimic or block the effects of reproductive hormones.

Water samples from drilling sites with a record of spillages had levels of the chemicals high enough to interfere with the body's responses to male hormones, as well as oestrogen".

EPA Covers Up The Safety Of Fracking



[...]
The EPA has extended public comment periods on the draft report three times since it came out — twice last year and again this year. Each extension delayed the peer-review plans.

[...]
The Environmental Protection Agency declines to have outside experts review its study claiming water contamination from fracking in Wyoming. Why confuse an analysis based on ideology with the facts?

…

In 2011, the EPA released the non-peer reviewed report on Pavillion in which the agency publicly linked fracking and groundwater contamination for the first time. However, then-EPA administrator Lisa Jackson stated that there is “no proven case where the fracking process itself has affected water.”

[...]
First, the contamination was found in two “monitoring wells” drilled by EPA outside of town, not in water wells that actually supply residents their water. EPA use of “dense soda ash” to drill its monitoring wells into a hydrocarbon-bearing layer probably skewed the results.

According to the industry research group Energy in Depth, “dense soda ash has a recorded pH (11.5), very similar to the level found in the deep wells, creating the possibility that the high pH recorded by EPA could have been caused by the very chemicals it used to drill its own wells.”

What the EPA report doesn’t say is that the U.S. Geological Survey has detected organic chemicals in the well water in Pavillion for at least five decades, long before fracking was done. The deepwater wells that EPA drilled are situated near a natural gas reservoir.

Encana Corp., which owns more than 100 wells near Pavillion, says it didn’t “put the natural gas at the bottom of the EPA’s deep monitoring wells. Nature did.”

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/062113-661014-epa-rejects-peer-review-of-fracking-study.htm?p=full

[Spendulus]

....nuclear energy is the cheapest and cleanest form of energy which is available to us.

The nuclear industry would collapse overnight without government subsidies, it's one of the most inefficient ways to produce electricity. If people want small government, who's going to pay for the handouts to the nuclear industry?

I disagree.  There are subsidies to just about all kinds of energy production, worst of all are the so called 'renewables'.  And of all the forms of energy, the massive red tape and regulatory nightmare that has caused it to be virtually impossible to build a new nuclear power plant .... well, they'd be lucky if any subsidies they got even paid for a part of those start up costs.

As for what is cheapest, I imagine it depends on where you are.  If your town is next to a natural gas or coal mine, guess what's cheapest?  If it is isolated and has high ridge lines to put windmills, they should be seriously looked at.  Etc, etc.  Lots of places nuclear makes perfect sense.

By the way, if the environmentalists had not created all these road blocks to nuclear, we might not even be going in the direction of fracking.  Interesting, right?

[dopey]

Shale gas exploration and fracing has and will continue to disrupt the water table. For the minimal returns they are seeing from this shallow formation they would do less harm to the environment and see a larger ROI by investing in more sound projects, like the oilsands for example.

[Spendulus]

Shale gas exploration and fracing has and will continue to disrupt the water table. For the minimal returns they are seeing from this shallow formation they would do less harm to the environment and see a larger ROI by investing in more sound projects, like the oilsands for example.

As far as my experience, I disagree.  Somewhere, certain geological conditions, maybe.

In this area we have water tables at 150 to 1200 feet, and fracking uses pressure cemented drill holes and goes down past a mile.  No issues with water table contamination.

Check this...

after a year of monitoring, the researchers are finding that the drilling fluids used in fracking stayed thousands of feet below the shallow areas that supply drinking water

http://www.caloilgas.com/study-shows-no-fracking-contamination/

but he also says...

But he cautioned that the single study does not prove that fracking cannot pollute, since geology and industry practices vary widely in Pennsylvania and across the nation.

[dopey]

And what is your real world experience?

[dopey]

Yes it's true that they frac into cemented holes, but the process involves cracking the formation by hammering high pressure water gel and sand into the rock. As the rock cracks the sand fills the fissures and holds these cracks open and allows the gas to flow to the surface.
This practice is used to fracture in both vertical and horizontal operations.
The theory is that they will only affect they're intended payzone, but this is not always what happens.

The simple fact of the mater is that residents in certain areas of the united states are seeing wells that have produced clean water they're entire lives all turn contaminated within certain areas of community. Some are even able to light the methane gas coming off of they're kitchen sink taps due to the high level of communication between the fracing operations and the water table.

This in itself is a huge problem, that will continue. There's also a massive increase in small earthquakes just over the last couple years believed to be associated with the fracing operations. And then there is a whole other issue associated with the waste water disposal contamination.

It is a real problem, and it will continue.