Bitcoin Forum
December 10, 2016, 10:50:51 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Quick math question.  (Read 2735 times)
Bitcoin Swami
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 168


View Profile
August 11, 2011, 02:39:53 AM
 #1

I know this question might seem a bit dumb but how much does the price need to go up on mt. gox before I can sell at a profit with their normal fee.

Say I bought one btc at 10, how much would it have to rise.  6 cents?
1481410251
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481410251

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481410251
Reply with quote  #2

1481410251
Report to moderator
1481410251
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481410251

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481410251
Reply with quote  #2

1481410251
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1481410251
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481410251

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481410251
Reply with quote  #2

1481410251
Report to moderator
1481410251
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481410251

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481410251
Reply with quote  #2

1481410251
Report to moderator
JoelKatz
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1386


Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.


View Profile WWW
August 11, 2011, 02:44:01 AM
 #2

I know this question might seem a bit dumb but how much does the price need to go up on mt. gox before I can sell at a profit with their normal fee.

Say I bought one btc at 10, how much would it have to rise.  6 cents?
It takes a buy at $10.00 and a sell at $10.12 to break even.

Commission is (normally) .65%, so:

I buy 10 bitcoins at $10 each, cost is $100 plus $0.65 commission.

I sell 10 bitcoins at $10.12 each, I get $101.20 and pay $.55 commission.

Sell-Buy: $101.20 - $100 = $1.20
Total Commission: $1.20

Result: Breakeven

I am an employee of Ripple.
1Joe1Katzci1rFcsr9HH7SLuHVnDy2aihZ BM-NBM3FRExVJSJJamV9ccgyWvQfratUHgN
Bitcoin Swami
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 168


View Profile
August 11, 2011, 02:48:44 AM
 #3

I know this question might seem a bit dumb but how much does the price need to go up on mt. gox before I can sell at a profit with their normal fee.

Say I bought one btc at 10, how much would it have to rise.  6 cents?
It takes a buy at $10.00 and a sell at $10.12 to break even.

Commission is (normally) .65%, so:

I buy 10 bitcoins at $10 each, cost is $100 plus $0.65 commission.

I sell 10 bitcoins at $10.12 each, I get $101.20 and pay $.55 commission.

Sell-Buy: $101.20 - $100 = $1.20
Total Commission: $1.20

Result: Breakeven


Thanks Joel I was still figuring the .3 percent commission so i was getting screwed up. 
Thanks alot.
Mike
Bitcoin Swami
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 168


View Profile
August 11, 2011, 02:53:55 AM
 #4

I know this question might seem a bit dumb but how much does the price need to go up on mt. gox before I can sell at a profit with their normal fee.

Say I bought one btc at 10, how much would it have to rise.  6 cents?
It takes a buy at $10.00 and a sell at $10.12 to break even.

Commission is (normally) .65%, so:

I buy 10 bitcoins at $10 each, cost is $100 plus $0.65 commission.

I sell 10 bitcoins at $10.12 each, I get $101.20 and pay $.55 commission.

Sell-Buy: $101.20 - $100 = $1.20
Total Commission: $1.20

Result: Breakeven


One more question.  Has anyone made a calculator or chart online for quick reference when trading? instead of getting the ole windows (or linux) calculator out?)
kiwiasian
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 168


View Profile
August 11, 2011, 03:08:15 AM
 #5

Not sure what you're asking.....just do BTC(USD)(99.35%) and that's your total profit

Tradehill referral link, save 10% | http://www.tradehill.com/?r=TH-R12328
www.payb.tc/kiwiasian | 1LHNW1JGMBo2e7rKiiFz7KJPKE57bqCdEC
Bitcoin Swami
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 168


View Profile
August 11, 2011, 03:17:23 AM
 #6

Not sure what you're asking.....just do BTC(USD)(99.35%) and that's your total profit

Guess I"m not totally sure what I'm asking either.  I was just thinking a chart where If I bought a bitcoin at 14 dollars it would just tell me the exact price i would need to sell at to break even (with fees included).  I'm sure it would take 2 seconds to program.  Is this a stupid idea? Am I too lazy? lol
PatrickHarnett
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518



View Profile
August 11, 2011, 04:37:07 AM
 #7

you could use your brain
TiagoTiago
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 616


Firstbits.com/1fg4i                :Ƀ


View Profile
August 11, 2011, 04:39:19 AM
 #8

Depending on the route the money takes, the comissions, taxes etc could be bigger for your roundtrip operation

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

Wanna gimme some BTC for any or no reason? 1FmvtS66LFh6ycrXDwKRQTexGJw4UWiqDX Smiley

The more you believe in Bitcoin, and the more you show you do to other people, the faster the real value will soar!

Do you like mmmBananas?!
PatrickHarnett
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518



View Profile
August 11, 2011, 05:24:46 AM
 #9

Gox charges 0.65% on each side, so very roughly on your $10 coin, 13 cents.  (More precisely, 13.08 cents.)

Have one BTC
Sell 1 at $10.1308, pay 0.06585 commission, have 10.065.  then
Buy 1 at 10.0000, pay 0.06500 commission, have one BTC and no $$
piramida
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994



View Profile
August 11, 2011, 06:20:36 AM
 #10

anything below 50 cents of volatility and you should not worry Smiley best up-and-down is after any big move, sell or buy does not matter. when the panic stops price goes up-down 1-2$ several times while seeking an average, that's the time to play.

i am satoshi
GeniuSxBoY
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 546



View Profile
August 11, 2011, 09:57:05 AM
 #11

If the price is $10. What price would you have to sell at to get $10?

x= what price?
fee= .65%
how many fees? 2 since you are trading in and trading out.
Remember, even if 1btc = $10 you only have .9935 after the trade.
If you cash out right now, you'll have to pay another fee .9935 x ($10) = $9.935 minus .65% = $9.8704225
So you lose twice the fee for trading in and trading out.

Shortcut:
x = price you need to sell at.
y = price you want to start.
Plug in y, solve for x.

x - (.65%*2*x) = y
x - (.65%*2*x) = 10
x - .0130x = 10
.987x = 10
x ~= 10.131712259371833839918946301925

A variance of 13 cents.

If we were trading at $20
x - (.65%*2*x) = y
x - (.65%*2*x) = 20
x - .0130x = 20
.987x = 20
x ~= 20.26342451874366767983789260385

A variance of 26 cents.



Longcut:
 X = current price, Y = Price you want to sell at to break even.
If X=10
($X - $X*.0065)/$X * ($Y - $Y*.0065)  = $X
($10 - $10*.0065)/$10 * ($Y - $Y*.0065)  = $10
.9935 * ($Y - $Y*.0065) = $10
($Y - $Y*.0065) = 10/.9935
.9935Y = 10/.9935
Y = 10/.9935/.9935
Y = 10/.9935^2
Y = 10.131278574954618204033312657082
NothinG
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 560



View Profile
August 11, 2011, 10:23:49 AM
 #12

I know this question might seem a bit dumb but how much does the price need to go up on mt. gox before I can sell at a profit with their normal fee.

Say I bought one btc at 10, how much would it have to rise.  6 cents?
It takes a buy at $10.00 and a sell at $10.12 to break even.

Commission is (normally) .65%, so:

I buy 10 bitcoins at $10 each, cost is $100 plus $0.65 commission.

I sell 10 bitcoins at $10.12 each, I get $101.20 and pay $.55 commission.

Sell-Buy: $101.20 - $100 = $1.20
Total Commission: $1.20

Result: Breakeven

Hopefully I did this right Tongue
http://zombietoday.com/trade_calculator.php

Code:
<?php
echo "<center>What's the minimum price I would have to sell back at to break even?</center><br />";
if(
$_GET['volume']>&& $_GET['ppb']>&& is_numeric($_GET['volume']) && is_numeric($_GET['ppb']) && $_GET['fee']>&& is_numeric($_GET['fee']))
{
$volume $_GET['volume'];
$ppb $_GET['ppb'];
$fee $_GET['fee'];
$fee_c = ($fee 1000); //yea, I know...decided to not use the full percentage
$total_buy $volume $ppb;
$min_sell $total_buy + ($total_buy $fee_c);

echo "[Buy]: ".$total_buy."<br />";
echo "[Sell]: ".$min_sell."<br /><Br />";
echo "You paid ".$total_buy." USD for ".$volume." BTC; you will need to sell back at ".$min_sell." USD to break even.<br />";

} else {
$mtGoxAVG mtGoxAvg();
echo "<form method=get>";
echo "Buy <input type='text' name='volume' value='1' size='2'> @ <input type='text' name='ppb' value='".$mtGoxAVG."'><br />";
echo "Fee 0.<input type='text' name='fee' value='65' size='1'>%<br /> ";
echo "<input type='submit' value='calculate'></form>";
}
function 
mtGoxAvg()
{
$opts = array(
  'http'=> array(
'method'=>   "GET",
'user_agent'=>    "MozillaXYZ/1.0"));
$context stream_context_create($opts);
$json file_get_contents('https://mtgox.com/code/data/ticker.php'false$context);
$jdec json_decode($json);
return $jdec->{'ticker'}->{'avg'};
}
?>

[edit]: I have no idea what I coded...lol. Modify it math nerds Grin

Bitcoin Swami
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 168


View Profile
August 11, 2011, 05:03:23 PM
 #13

I know this question might seem a bit dumb but how much does the price need to go up on mt. gox before I can sell at a profit with their normal fee.

Say I bought one btc at 10, how much would it have to rise.  6 cents?
It takes a buy at $10.00 and a sell at $10.12 to break even.

Commission is (normally) .65%, so:

I buy 10 bitcoins at $10 each, cost is $100 plus $0.65 commission.

I sell 10 bitcoins at $10.12 each, I get $101.20 and pay $.55 commission.

Sell-Buy: $101.20 - $100 = $1.20
Total Commission: $1.20

Result: Breakeven

Hopefully I did this right Tongue
http://zombietoday.com/trade_calculator.php

Code:
<?php
echo "<center>What's the minimum price I would have to sell back at to break even?</center><br />";
if(
$_GET['volume']>&& $_GET['ppb']>&& is_numeric($_GET['volume']) && is_numeric($_GET['ppb']) && $_GET['fee']>&& is_numeric($_GET['fee']))
{
$volume $_GET['volume'];
$ppb $_GET['ppb'];
$fee $_GET['fee'];
$fee_c = ($fee 1000); //yea, I know...decided to not use the full percentage
$total_buy $volume $ppb;
$min_sell $total_buy + ($total_buy $fee_c);

echo "[Buy]: ".$total_buy."<br />";
echo "[Sell]: ".$min_sell."<br /><Br />";
echo "You paid ".$total_buy." USD for ".$volume." BTC; you will need to sell back at ".$min_sell." USD to break even.<br />";

} else {
$mtGoxAVG mtGoxAvg();
echo "<form method=get>";
echo "Buy <input type='text' name='volume' value='1' size='2'> @ <input type='text' name='ppb' value='".$mtGoxAVG."'><br />";
echo "Fee 0.<input type='text' name='fee' value='65' size='1'>%<br /> ";
echo "<input type='submit' value='calculate'></form>";
}
function 
mtGoxAvg()
{
$opts = array(
  'http'=> array(
'method'=>   "GET",
'user_agent'=>    "MozillaXYZ/1.0"));
$context stream_context_create($opts);
$json file_get_contents('https://mtgox.com/code/data/ticker.php'false$context);
$jdec json_decode($json);
return $jdec->{'ticker'}->{'avg'};
}
?>

[edit]: I have no idea what I coded...lol. Modify it math nerds Grin

Perfect, exactly what I was talking about.  Except the math is wrong but I think you notice that.
Elwar
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1946


www.bitpools.com


View Profile WWW
August 11, 2011, 05:34:36 PM
 #14

I know this question might seem a bit dumb but how much does the price need to go up on mt. gox before I can sell at a profit with their normal fee.

Say I bought one btc at 10, how much would it have to rise.  6 cents?
It takes a buy at $10.00 and a sell at $10.12 to break even.

Commission is (normally) .65%, so:

I buy 10 bitcoins at $10 each, cost is $100 plus $0.65 commission.

I sell 10 bitcoins at $10.12 each, I get $101.20 and pay $.55 commission.

Sell-Buy: $101.20 - $100 = $1.20
Total Commission: $1.20

Result: Breakeven

Hopefully I did this right Tongue
http://zombietoday.com/trade_calculator.php

Code:
<?php
echo "<center>What's the minimum price I would have to sell back at to break even?</center><br />";
if(
$_GET['volume']>&& $_GET['ppb']>&& is_numeric($_GET['volume']) && is_numeric($_GET['ppb']) && $_GET['fee']>&& is_numeric($_GET['fee']))
{
$volume $_GET['volume'];
$ppb $_GET['ppb'];
$fee $_GET['fee'];
$fee_c = ($fee 1000); //yea, I know...decided to not use the full percentage
$total_buy $volume $ppb;
$min_sell $total_buy + ($total_buy $fee_c);

echo "[Buy]: ".$total_buy."<br />";
echo "[Sell]: ".$min_sell."<br /><Br />";
echo "You paid ".$total_buy." USD for ".$volume." BTC; you will need to sell back at ".$min_sell." USD to break even.<br />";

} else {
$mtGoxAVG mtGoxAvg();
echo "<form method=get>";
echo "Buy <input type='text' name='volume' value='1' size='2'> @ <input type='text' name='ppb' value='".$mtGoxAVG."'><br />";
echo "Fee 0.<input type='text' name='fee' value='65' size='1'>%<br /> ";
echo "<input type='submit' value='calculate'></form>";
}
function 
mtGoxAvg()
{
$opts = array(
  'http'=> array(
'method'=>   "GET",
'user_agent'=>    "MozillaXYZ/1.0"));
$context stream_context_create($opts);
$json file_get_contents('https://mtgox.com/code/data/ticker.php'false$context);
$jdec json_decode($json);
return $jdec->{'ticker'}->{'avg'};
}
?>

[edit]: I have no idea what I coded...lol. Modify it math nerds Grin

Well done. It would help to add at the end "Price to sell back at to break even: "   eg. 10.12

http://www.bitpools.com
Pool your bitcoins with others. Vote on solutions using the Bitcoin blockchain. Keep your bitcoins in your cold storage until you find a solution you like.
Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
NothinG
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 560



View Profile
August 11, 2011, 05:46:58 PM
 #15

Well done. It would help to add at the end "Price to sell back at to break even: "   eg. 10.12
I wrote the script at 5am.

Give me a few minutes and I'll add that.

[Edit]:

http://zombietoday.com/trade_calculator.php
Code:
<?php
echo "<center>What's the minimum price I would have to sell back at to break even?</center><br />";
if(
$_GET['volume']>&& $_GET['ppb']>&& is_numeric($_GET['volume']) && is_numeric($_GET['ppb']) && $_GET['fee']>&& is_numeric($_GET['fee']))
{
$volume $_GET['volume'];
$ppb $_GET['ppb'];
$fee $_GET['fee'];
$fee_c = ($fee 1000); //yea, I know...decided to not use the full percentage
$total_buy $volume $ppb;
$min_sell $total_buy + ($total_buy $fee_c);
$minMarket_low_sell = ($min_sell $volume);

echo "[Volume]: ".$volume."<br />";
echo "[Buy]: ".$total_buy."<br />";
echo "[Sell]: ".$min_sell."<br /><Br />";
echo "Minimum sell when Price Per Bitcoin is <u>".$minMarket_low_sell."USD</u> to break even.<br />";

} else {
echo "<form method=get>";
echo "Buy <input type='text' name='volume' value='1' size='2'> @ <input type='text' name='ppb' value='".mtGoxAvg()."'><br />";
echo "Fee 0.<input type='text' name='fee' value='65' size='1'>%<br /> ";
echo "<input type='submit' value='calculate'></form>";
}

function 
mtGoxAvg()
{
$opts = array(
  'http'=> array(
'method'=>   "GET",
'user_agent'=>    "MozillaXYZ/1.0"));
$context stream_context_create($opts);
$json file_get_contents('https://mtgox.com/code/data/ticker.php'false$context);
$jdec json_decode($json);
return $jdec->{'ticker'}->{'avg'};
}
?>
Enjoy!

Elwar
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1946


www.bitpools.com


View Profile WWW
August 11, 2011, 06:15:16 PM
 #16

Enjoy!

Perfect! Thanks.


One question though...where is everyone getting .65%?

When I trade on MtGox it shows:
Mt Gox charges a small fee (0.30%) for each trade.

And with .3% would it not be multiplying times .003? Or .006 for two trades.

So a transaction of buying 100 BTC at $10 would be $1000 with a break even point of $1006?

http://www.bitpools.com
Pool your bitcoins with others. Vote on solutions using the Bitcoin blockchain. Keep your bitcoins in your cold storage until you find a solution you like.
Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
NothinG
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 560



View Profile
August 11, 2011, 06:17:07 PM
 #17

Enjoy!

Perfect! Thanks.


One question though...where is everyone getting .65%?

When I trade on MtGox it shows:
Mt Gox charges a small fee (0.30%) for each trade.

And with .3% would it not be multiplying times .003? Or .006 for two trades.

So a transaction of buying 100 BTC at $10 would be $1000 with a break even point of $1006?
I had the assumption the fee was 0.65% per trade. That's why it's a modifiable field.
I'll make some more modifications I guess.

Elwar
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1946


www.bitpools.com


View Profile WWW
August 11, 2011, 06:47:50 PM
 #18

Ahh, I see what is wrong.

You have: Fee: 0.[65]%  which uses 65 as a multiple. If you have a fee of just 0.[6] it uses 6 as a multiple.

So you have:

100 * 10 = 1000 with a selloff of 1065 for .65

and

100 * 10 = 1000 with a selloff of 1006 for .6

http://www.bitpools.com
Pool your bitcoins with others. Vote on solutions using the Bitcoin blockchain. Keep your bitcoins in your cold storage until you find a solution you like.
Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
xjosx
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 33


View Profile
August 11, 2011, 06:48:09 PM
 #19

Well done. It would help to add at the end "Price to sell back at to break even: "   eg. 10.12
I wrote the script at 5am.

Give me a few minutes and I'll add that.

[Edit]:

http://zombietoday.com/trade_calculator.php
Code:
<?php
echo "<center>What's the minimum price I would have to sell back at to break even?</center><br />";
if(
$_GET['volume']>&& $_GET['ppb']>&& is_numeric($_GET['volume']) && is_numeric($_GET['ppb']) && $_GET['fee']>&& is_numeric($_GET['fee']))
{
$volume $_GET['volume'];
$ppb $_GET['ppb'];
$fee $_GET['fee'];
$fee_c = ($fee 1000); //yea, I know...decided to not use the full percentage
$total_buy $volume $ppb;
$min_sell $total_buy + ($total_buy $fee_c);
$minMarket_low_sell = ($min_sell $volume);

echo "[Volume]: ".$volume."<br />";
echo "[Buy]: ".$total_buy."<br />";
echo "[Sell]: ".$min_sell."<br /><Br />";
echo "Minimum sell when Price Per Bitcoin is <u>".$minMarket_low_sell."USD</u> to break even.<br />";

} else {
echo "<form method=get>";
echo "Buy <input type='text' name='volume' value='1' size='2'> @ <input type='text' name='ppb' value='".mtGoxAvg()."'><br />";
echo "Fee 0.<input type='text' name='fee' value='65' size='1'>%<br /> ";
echo "<input type='submit' value='calculate'></form>";
}

function 
mtGoxAvg()
{
$opts = array(
  'http'=> array(
'method'=>   "GET",
'user_agent'=>    "MozillaXYZ/1.0"));
$context stream_context_create($opts);
$json file_get_contents('https://mtgox.com/code/data/ticker.php'false$context);
$jdec json_decode($json);
return $jdec->{'ticker'}->{'avg'};
}
?>
Enjoy!

Are you sure the math is right? As stated in Joel's post, a $0.12 spread at $10 is enough to break even. According to yours, a $0.67 spread is required... That can't be right.
Elwar
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1946


www.bitpools.com


View Profile WWW
August 11, 2011, 06:52:46 PM
 #20

Works perfectly if you just use a single digit.

Or 6.5

http://www.bitpools.com
Pool your bitcoins with others. Vote on solutions using the Bitcoin blockchain. Keep your bitcoins in your cold storage until you find a solution you like.
Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!