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 Author Topic: Quick math question.  (Read 2976 times)
Bitcoin Swami
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 August 11, 2011, 02:39:53 AM

I know this question might seem a bit dumb but how much does the price need to go up on mt. gox before I can sell at a profit with their normal fee.

Say I bought one btc at 10, how much would it have to rise.  6 cents?
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JoelKatz
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 August 11, 2011, 02:44:01 AM

I know this question might seem a bit dumb but how much does the price need to go up on mt. gox before I can sell at a profit with their normal fee.

Say I bought one btc at 10, how much would it have to rise.  6 cents?
It takes a buy at \$10.00 and a sell at \$10.12 to break even.

Commission is (normally) .65%, so:

I buy 10 bitcoins at \$10 each, cost is \$100 plus \$0.65 commission.

I sell 10 bitcoins at \$10.12 each, I get \$101.20 and pay \$.55 commission.

Sell-Buy: \$101.20 - \$100 = \$1.20
Total Commission: \$1.20

Result: Breakeven

1Joe1Katzci1rFcsr9HH7SLuHVnDy2aihZ BM-NBM3FRExVJSJJamV9ccgyWvQfratUHgN
Bitcoin Swami
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 August 11, 2011, 02:48:44 AM

I know this question might seem a bit dumb but how much does the price need to go up on mt. gox before I can sell at a profit with their normal fee.

Say I bought one btc at 10, how much would it have to rise.  6 cents?
It takes a buy at \$10.00 and a sell at \$10.12 to break even.

Commission is (normally) .65%, so:

I buy 10 bitcoins at \$10 each, cost is \$100 plus \$0.65 commission.

I sell 10 bitcoins at \$10.12 each, I get \$101.20 and pay \$.55 commission.

Sell-Buy: \$101.20 - \$100 = \$1.20
Total Commission: \$1.20

Result: Breakeven

Thanks Joel I was still figuring the .3 percent commission so i was getting screwed up.
Thanks alot.
Mike
Bitcoin Swami
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 August 11, 2011, 02:53:55 AM

I know this question might seem a bit dumb but how much does the price need to go up on mt. gox before I can sell at a profit with their normal fee.

Say I bought one btc at 10, how much would it have to rise.  6 cents?
It takes a buy at \$10.00 and a sell at \$10.12 to break even.

Commission is (normally) .65%, so:

I buy 10 bitcoins at \$10 each, cost is \$100 plus \$0.65 commission.

I sell 10 bitcoins at \$10.12 each, I get \$101.20 and pay \$.55 commission.

Sell-Buy: \$101.20 - \$100 = \$1.20
Total Commission: \$1.20

Result: Breakeven

One more question.  Has anyone made a calculator or chart online for quick reference when trading? instead of getting the ole windows (or linux) calculator out?)
kiwiasian
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 August 11, 2011, 03:08:15 AM

Not sure what you're asking.....just do BTC(USD)(99.35%) and that's your total profit

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Bitcoin Swami
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 August 11, 2011, 03:17:23 AM

Not sure what you're asking.....just do BTC(USD)(99.35%) and that's your total profit

Guess I"m not totally sure what I'm asking either.  I was just thinking a chart where If I bought a bitcoin at 14 dollars it would just tell me the exact price i would need to sell at to break even (with fees included).  I'm sure it would take 2 seconds to program.  Is this a stupid idea? Am I too lazy? lol
PatrickHarnett
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 August 11, 2011, 04:37:07 AM

TiagoTiago
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Firstbits.com/1fg4i :)

 August 11, 2011, 04:39:19 AM

Depending on the route the money takes, the comissions, taxes etc could be bigger for your roundtrip operation

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

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PatrickHarnett
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 August 11, 2011, 05:24:46 AM

Gox charges 0.65% on each side, so very roughly on your \$10 coin, 13 cents.  (More precisely, 13.08 cents.)

Have one BTC
Sell 1 at \$10.1308, pay 0.06585 commission, have 10.065.  then
Buy 1 at 10.0000, pay 0.06500 commission, have one BTC and no \$\$
piramida
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 August 11, 2011, 06:20:36 AM

anything below 50 cents of volatility and you should not worry best up-and-down is after any big move, sell or buy does not matter. when the panic stops price goes up-down 1-2\$ several times while seeking an average, that's the time to play.

i am satoshi
GeniuSxBoY
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 August 11, 2011, 09:57:05 AM

If the price is \$10. What price would you have to sell at to get \$10?

x= what price?
fee= .65%
how many fees? 2 since you are trading in and trading out.
Remember, even if 1btc = \$10 you only have .9935 after the trade.
If you cash out right now, you'll have to pay another fee .9935 x (\$10) = \$9.935 minus .65% = \$9.8704225
So you lose twice the fee for trading in and trading out.

Shortcut:
x = price you need to sell at.
y = price you want to start.
Plug in y, solve for x.

x - (.65%*2*x) = y
x - (.65%*2*x) = 10
x - .0130x = 10
.987x = 10
x ~= 10.131712259371833839918946301925

A variance of 13 cents.

If we were trading at \$20
x - (.65%*2*x) = y
x - (.65%*2*x) = 20
x - .0130x = 20
.987x = 20
x ~= 20.26342451874366767983789260385

A variance of 26 cents.

Longcut:
X = current price, Y = Price you want to sell at to break even.
If X=10
(\$X - \$X*.0065)/\$X * (\$Y - \$Y*.0065)  = \$X
(\$10 - \$10*.0065)/\$10 * (\$Y - \$Y*.0065)  = \$10
.9935 * (\$Y - \$Y*.0065) = \$10
(\$Y - \$Y*.0065) = 10/.9935
.9935Y = 10/.9935
Y = 10/.9935/.9935
Y = 10/.9935^2
Y = 10.131278574954618204033312657082

Be humble!
NothinG
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 August 11, 2011, 10:23:49 AM

I know this question might seem a bit dumb but how much does the price need to go up on mt. gox before I can sell at a profit with their normal fee.

Say I bought one btc at 10, how much would it have to rise.  6 cents?
It takes a buy at \$10.00 and a sell at \$10.12 to break even.

Commission is (normally) .65%, so:

I buy 10 bitcoins at \$10 each, cost is \$100 plus \$0.65 commission.

I sell 10 bitcoins at \$10.12 each, I get \$101.20 and pay \$.55 commission.

Sell-Buy: \$101.20 - \$100 = \$1.20
Total Commission: \$1.20

Result: Breakeven

Hopefully I did this right

Code:
<?php
echo "<center>What's the minimum price I would have to sell back at to break even?</center><br />";
if(
\$_GET['volume']>&& \$_GET['ppb']>&& is_numeric(\$_GET['volume']) && is_numeric(\$_GET['ppb']) && \$_GET['fee']>&& is_numeric(\$_GET['fee']))
{
\$volume \$_GET['volume'];
\$ppb \$_GET['ppb'];
\$fee \$_GET['fee'];
\$fee_c = (\$fee 1000); //yea, I know...decided to not use the full percentage

echo "[Sell]: ".\$min_sell."<br /><Br />";
echo "You paid ".\$total_buy." USD for ".\$volume." BTC; you will need to sell back at ".\$min_sell." USD to break even.<br />";

} else {
\$mtGoxAVG mtGoxAvg();
echo "<form method=get>";
echo "Buy <input type='text' name='volume' value='1' size='2'> @ <input type='text' name='ppb' value='".\$mtGoxAVG."'><br />";
echo "Fee 0.<input type='text' name='fee' value='65' size='1'>%<br /> ";
echo "<input type='submit' value='calculate'></form>";
}
function
mtGoxAvg()
{
\$opts = array(
'http'=> array(
'method'=>   "GET",
'user_agent'=>    "MozillaXYZ/1.0"));
\$context stream_context_create(\$opts);
\$json file_get_contents('https://mtgox.com/code/data/ticker.php'false\$context);
\$jdec json_decode(\$json);
return \$jdec->{'ticker'}->{'avg'};
}
?>

: I have no idea what I coded...lol. Modify it math nerds

Bitcoin Swami
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 August 11, 2011, 05:03:23 PM

I know this question might seem a bit dumb but how much does the price need to go up on mt. gox before I can sell at a profit with their normal fee.

Say I bought one btc at 10, how much would it have to rise.  6 cents?
It takes a buy at \$10.00 and a sell at \$10.12 to break even.

Commission is (normally) .65%, so:

I buy 10 bitcoins at \$10 each, cost is \$100 plus \$0.65 commission.

I sell 10 bitcoins at \$10.12 each, I get \$101.20 and pay \$.55 commission.

Sell-Buy: \$101.20 - \$100 = \$1.20
Total Commission: \$1.20

Result: Breakeven

Hopefully I did this right

Code:
<?php
echo "<center>What's the minimum price I would have to sell back at to break even?</center><br />";
if(
\$_GET['volume']>&& \$_GET['ppb']>&& is_numeric(\$_GET['volume']) && is_numeric(\$_GET['ppb']) && \$_GET['fee']>&& is_numeric(\$_GET['fee']))
{
\$volume \$_GET['volume'];
\$ppb \$_GET['ppb'];
\$fee \$_GET['fee'];
\$fee_c = (\$fee 1000); //yea, I know...decided to not use the full percentage

echo "[Sell]: ".\$min_sell."<br /><Br />";
echo "You paid ".\$total_buy." USD for ".\$volume." BTC; you will need to sell back at ".\$min_sell." USD to break even.<br />";

} else {
\$mtGoxAVG mtGoxAvg();
echo "<form method=get>";
echo "Buy <input type='text' name='volume' value='1' size='2'> @ <input type='text' name='ppb' value='".\$mtGoxAVG."'><br />";
echo "Fee 0.<input type='text' name='fee' value='65' size='1'>%<br /> ";
echo "<input type='submit' value='calculate'></form>";
}
function
mtGoxAvg()
{
\$opts = array(
'http'=> array(
'method'=>   "GET",
'user_agent'=>    "MozillaXYZ/1.0"));
\$context stream_context_create(\$opts);
\$json file_get_contents('https://mtgox.com/code/data/ticker.php'false\$context);
\$jdec json_decode(\$json);
return \$jdec->{'ticker'}->{'avg'};
}
?>

: I have no idea what I coded...lol. Modify it math nerds

Perfect, exactly what I was talking about.  Except the math is wrong but I think you notice that.
Elwar
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 August 11, 2011, 05:34:36 PM

I know this question might seem a bit dumb but how much does the price need to go up on mt. gox before I can sell at a profit with their normal fee.

Say I bought one btc at 10, how much would it have to rise.  6 cents?
It takes a buy at \$10.00 and a sell at \$10.12 to break even.

Commission is (normally) .65%, so:

I buy 10 bitcoins at \$10 each, cost is \$100 plus \$0.65 commission.

I sell 10 bitcoins at \$10.12 each, I get \$101.20 and pay \$.55 commission.

Sell-Buy: \$101.20 - \$100 = \$1.20
Total Commission: \$1.20

Result: Breakeven

Hopefully I did this right

Code:
<?php
echo "<center>What's the minimum price I would have to sell back at to break even?</center><br />";
if(
\$_GET['volume']>&& \$_GET['ppb']>&& is_numeric(\$_GET['volume']) && is_numeric(\$_GET['ppb']) && \$_GET['fee']>&& is_numeric(\$_GET['fee']))
{
\$volume \$_GET['volume'];
\$ppb \$_GET['ppb'];
\$fee \$_GET['fee'];
\$fee_c = (\$fee 1000); //yea, I know...decided to not use the full percentage

echo "[Sell]: ".\$min_sell."<br /><Br />";
echo "You paid ".\$total_buy." USD for ".\$volume." BTC; you will need to sell back at ".\$min_sell." USD to break even.<br />";

} else {
\$mtGoxAVG mtGoxAvg();
echo "<form method=get>";
echo "Buy <input type='text' name='volume' value='1' size='2'> @ <input type='text' name='ppb' value='".\$mtGoxAVG."'><br />";
echo "Fee 0.<input type='text' name='fee' value='65' size='1'>%<br /> ";
echo "<input type='submit' value='calculate'></form>";
}
function
mtGoxAvg()
{
\$opts = array(
'http'=> array(
'method'=>   "GET",
'user_agent'=>    "MozillaXYZ/1.0"));
\$context stream_context_create(\$opts);
\$json file_get_contents('https://mtgox.com/code/data/ticker.php'false\$context);
\$jdec json_decode(\$json);
return \$jdec->{'ticker'}->{'avg'};
}
?>

: I have no idea what I coded...lol. Modify it math nerds

Well done. It would help to add at the end "Price to sell back at to break even: "   eg. 10.12

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NothinG
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 August 11, 2011, 05:46:58 PM

Well done. It would help to add at the end "Price to sell back at to break even: "   eg. 10.12
I wrote the script at 5am.

Give me a few minutes and I'll add that.

:

Code:
<?php
echo "<center>What's the minimum price I would have to sell back at to break even?</center><br />";
if(
\$_GET['volume']>&& \$_GET['ppb']>&& is_numeric(\$_GET['volume']) && is_numeric(\$_GET['ppb']) && \$_GET['fee']>&& is_numeric(\$_GET['fee']))
{
\$volume \$_GET['volume'];
\$ppb \$_GET['ppb'];
\$fee \$_GET['fee'];
\$fee_c = (\$fee 1000); //yea, I know...decided to not use the full percentage
\$minMarket_low_sell = (\$min_sell \$volume);

echo "[Volume]: ".\$volume."<br />";
echo "[Sell]: ".\$min_sell."<br /><Br />";
echo "Minimum sell when Price Per Bitcoin is <u>".\$minMarket_low_sell."USD</u> to break even.<br />";

} else {
echo "<form method=get>";
echo "Buy <input type='text' name='volume' value='1' size='2'> @ <input type='text' name='ppb' value='".mtGoxAvg()."'><br />";
echo "Fee 0.<input type='text' name='fee' value='65' size='1'>%<br /> ";
echo "<input type='submit' value='calculate'></form>";
}

function
mtGoxAvg()
{
\$opts = array(
'http'=> array(
'method'=>   "GET",
'user_agent'=>    "MozillaXYZ/1.0"));
\$context stream_context_create(\$opts);
\$json file_get_contents('https://mtgox.com/code/data/ticker.php'false\$context);
\$jdec json_decode(\$json);
return \$jdec->{'ticker'}->{'avg'};
}
?>
Enjoy!

Elwar
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 August 11, 2011, 06:15:16 PM

Enjoy!

Perfect! Thanks.

One question though...where is everyone getting .65%?

When I trade on MtGox it shows:
Mt Gox charges a small fee (0.30%) for each trade.

And with .3% would it not be multiplying times .003? Or .006 for two trades.

So a transaction of buying 100 BTC at \$10 would be \$1000 with a break even point of \$1006?

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Pool your bitcoins with others. Vote on solutions using the Bitcoin blockchain. Keep your bitcoins in your cold storage until you find a solution you like.
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NothinG
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 August 11, 2011, 06:17:07 PM

Enjoy!

Perfect! Thanks.

One question though...where is everyone getting .65%?

When I trade on MtGox it shows:
Mt Gox charges a small fee (0.30%) for each trade.

And with .3% would it not be multiplying times .003? Or .006 for two trades.

So a transaction of buying 100 BTC at \$10 would be \$1000 with a break even point of \$1006?
I had the assumption the fee was 0.65% per trade. That's why it's a modifiable field.
I'll make some more modifications I guess.

Elwar
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www.bitpools.com

 August 11, 2011, 06:47:50 PM

Ahh, I see what is wrong.

You have: Fee: 0.[65]%  which uses 65 as a multiple. If you have a fee of just 0.[6] it uses 6 as a multiple.

So you have:

100 * 10 = 1000 with a selloff of 1065 for .65

and

100 * 10 = 1000 with a selloff of 1006 for .6

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Pool your bitcoins with others. Vote on solutions using the Bitcoin blockchain. Keep your bitcoins in your cold storage until you find a solution you like.
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xjosx
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 August 11, 2011, 06:48:09 PM

Well done. It would help to add at the end "Price to sell back at to break even: "   eg. 10.12
I wrote the script at 5am.

Give me a few minutes and I'll add that.

:

Code:
<?php
echo "<center>What's the minimum price I would have to sell back at to break even?</center><br />";
if(
\$_GET['volume']>&& \$_GET['ppb']>&& is_numeric(\$_GET['volume']) && is_numeric(\$_GET['ppb']) && \$_GET['fee']>&& is_numeric(\$_GET['fee']))
{
\$volume \$_GET['volume'];
\$ppb \$_GET['ppb'];
\$fee \$_GET['fee'];
\$fee_c = (\$fee 1000); //yea, I know...decided to not use the full percentage
\$minMarket_low_sell = (\$min_sell \$volume);

echo "[Volume]: ".\$volume."<br />";
echo "[Sell]: ".\$min_sell."<br /><Br />";
echo "Minimum sell when Price Per Bitcoin is <u>".\$minMarket_low_sell."USD</u> to break even.<br />";

} else {
echo "<form method=get>";
echo "Buy <input type='text' name='volume' value='1' size='2'> @ <input type='text' name='ppb' value='".mtGoxAvg()."'><br />";
echo "Fee 0.<input type='text' name='fee' value='65' size='1'>%<br /> ";
echo "<input type='submit' value='calculate'></form>";
}

function
mtGoxAvg()
{
\$opts = array(
'http'=> array(
'method'=>   "GET",
'user_agent'=>    "MozillaXYZ/1.0"));
\$context stream_context_create(\$opts);
\$json file_get_contents('https://mtgox.com/code/data/ticker.php'false\$context);
\$jdec json_decode(\$json);
return \$jdec->{'ticker'}->{'avg'};
}
?>
Enjoy!

Are you sure the math is right? As stated in Joel's post, a \$0.12 spread at \$10 is enough to break even. According to yours, a \$0.67 spread is required... That can't be right.
Elwar
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 August 11, 2011, 06:52:46 PM

Works perfectly if you just use a single digit.

Or 6.5

http://www.bitpools.com
Pool your bitcoins with others. Vote on solutions using the Bitcoin blockchain. Keep your bitcoins in your cold storage until you find a solution you like.
Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
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