Isn't anyone else suspicious?

[xstr8guy]

I'm not naming names... cough... VMC... cough... Bitmine... but are these "other" 28nm players... cough... BlackArrow... cough... really going to deliver a working ASIC ever?

VMC even claims to be shipping right now but not one person has come forth claiming to have received one.

BlackArrow has been claiming that somehow running a Bitfury mine is proof that they can deliver their own design.

Other seemingly legit companies appear to be completely ignoring their own official threads at BitCoinTalk.

I really think there are some major scandals brewing here and most people seem oblivious.  Oddly, the companies that appear to be closest to delivering (HashFast, Cointerra) have the angriest posters in their official threads.  What is going on here?

Something just doesn't make sense here.

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[rammy2k2]

im not doing pre-orders so i dont care 

[smithytzu]

It's a game of risk and reward with a lot of money on the line, it's natural for people to be edgy and a little angry knowing that the gamble for all the next Gen ASIC stuff can go either way. It'll be easy to win or lose, and some ASIC companies will likely go broke in the process.

No one can accurately predict the mining difficulty, which companies will actually deliver first etc, I think it's fair to say although Black Arrow are much further behind then others, I think they will deliver eventually but the fact that they don't even have a full working design hashing at the moment is not a good sign, the thing of it is, that it is china but, production will be easier for them than others, so for them the hurdle more so is getting the working design(Still a BIG hurdle but!).

Hashfast are the typical very slick US style company, they certainly have put forward an image, but I know from my experience, I emailed them about 3 weeks ago and never got a response, I can understand people being edgy about them too.

It's all a gamble, the thing about gambles is someone wins and someone loses, out of all the chaos for the next 6 months there will be losers.

[reactor]

It is also entirely possible, not to sound all conspiracy-like, that you have a group behind all these rather than small pockets of independents who appear to all be doing the same thing.  Imagine Avalon establishing a disti model where they make unbranded chips and smaller local players can have those chips branded as their own and just have to make hardware.  Avalon was good at making chips but terrible at producing the hardware on time and the international sales market.  If they could just make chips and have everyone else do the work... well...

[mmitech]

when people learn that they are better buying Bitcoins than investing in a pre-order than everything will be just fine.

buy only from stock, I don't care about how they will make an Asic let them get a mortgage to finance their own process, because they will have allot risked this will be the only way they will take their clients seriously. and they will race to finish their design ASAP. you see win win case.

It has been proven many times that Holding bitcoins is way better than investing in pre-orders, but people still risk their money just because of "what if it is different this time" .

[Biffa]

when people learn that they are better buying Bitcoins that investing in a pre-order than everything will be just fine.

buy only from stock, I don't care about how they will make an Asic let them get a mortgage to finance their own process, because they will have allot risked this will be the only way they will take their clients seriously. and they will race to finish their design ASAP. you see win win case.

It has been proven many times that Holding bitcoins is way better than investing in pre-orders, but people still risk their money just because of "what is it is different this time" .

The problem is that if you wait till there is stock then your unlikely to get any because they will all be sold. :|

[EdManet]

The problem is that if you wait till there is stock then your unlikely to get any because they will all be sold. :|

That's what they want you to think.

[Bogart]

BlackArrow has been claiming that somehow running a Bitfury mine is proof that they can deliver their own design.

They never made such a claim.  Instead someone visited their factory and took pictures of a bunch of bitfury boards there were running.  That's all.

I am, however, still waiting for an explanation of what all those boards are doing there.  They were said to be customers' boards.  If that's so, why haven't they been shipped out to those customers?

[Bicknellski]

BlackArrow has been claiming that somehow running a Bitfury mine is proof that they can deliver their own design.

They never made such a claim.  Instead someone visited their factory and took pictures of a bunch of bitfury boards there were running.  That's all.

I am, however, still waiting for an explanation of what all those boards are doing there.  They were said to be customers' boards.  If that's so, why haven't they been shipped out to those customers?

Drillbit / Bobsag3 they both had production runs through BlackArrow for their relative boards correct?

[Gator-hex]

The future is always further away than it seems, just keep mining with what you've got. 

[FiatKiller]

I think it's fairly safe to do a pre-order with KNC, but I agree that just buying BTC, instead of a miner is smartest. Mining is a hobby and a way to contribute to the network, moreso than an investment.

[de_ixie]

I think it's fairly safe to do a pre-order with KNC, but I agree that just buying BTC, instead of a miner is smartest. Mining is a hobby and a way to contribute to the network, moreso than an investment.

hobby now - but it will for sure go industrial end 2014/ 2015

[Biffa]

BlackArrow has been claiming that somehow running a Bitfury mine is proof that they can deliver their own design.

They never made such a claim.  Instead someone visited their factory and took pictures of a bunch of bitfury boards there were running.  That's all.

I am, however, still waiting for an explanation of what all those boards are doing there.  They were said to be customers' boards.  If that's so, why haven't they been shipped out to those customers?

I'd like an explanation as well, it does seem mighty strange that they had.. well from the pictures I saw I wouldn't call it "a bunch" I'd say the collective term for the number of bitfury boards I saw would be a "megashitload", or often translated to a "mine" of boards

[xstr8guy]

It is also entirely possible, not to sound all conspiracy-like, that you have a group behind all these rather than small pockets of independents who appear to all be doing the same thing.  Imagine Avalon establishing a disti model where they make unbranded chips and smaller local players can have those chips branded as their own and just have to make hardware.  Avalon was good at making chips but terrible at producing the hardware on time and the international sales market.  If they could just make chips and have everyone else do the work... well...

You know, that has crossed my mind too.  But all of these other companies are just as horrible as Avalon with their communication and customer support. Lol.

[Cheshyr]

Oddly, the companies that appear to be closest to delivering (HashFast, Cointerra) have the angriest posters in their official threads.  What is going on here?

Something just doesn't make sense here.

This is a very angry, accusatory, suspicious community.  On top of that, it is in the best interests of mining equipment buyers to discourage other buyers, so they own a larger hashing market share.  Add to that the newness of this industry, the privacy-centric foundations of Bitcoin, and the sheer amount of capital now wrapped up in the scene, and you get... this.  A digital wild-west with all the dignity of Mos Eisley.

There are legit scams out there, and people have gotten burned.  There are also good intentioned manufacturers that have gotten screwed by the community thanks to fraud, chargebacks, and massive unfounded negative PR.  There are companies that just couldn't produce, despite pre-orders and community faith.  And, there are people who would have made ROI if they hadn't been talked out of it through the prolific FUD tactics here.  You're just as likely to screwed by an ASIC manufacturer as you are by a fellow forum member.

SHA-256 isn't a difficult algorithm.  I don't doubt that these companies have a product they think they can sell.  If they can deliver?..  I dunno.  If you listen to this forum, nobody has every delivered a working miner in the history of bitcoin, and the ones that did murdered your unborn children first.

I use the forum to see what's being announced and talked about, but I treat most thread posts the same way I treat YouTube comments, and do my own research.

[bobsag3]

BlackArrow has been claiming that somehow running a Bitfury mine is proof that they can deliver their own design.

They never made such a claim.  Instead someone visited their factory and took pictures of a bunch of bitfury boards there were running.  That's all.

I am, however, still waiting for an explanation of what all those boards are doing there.  They were said to be customers' boards.  If that's so, why haven't they been shipped out to those customers?

I'd like an explanation as well, it does seem mighty strange that they had.. well from the pictures I saw I wouldn't call it "a bunch" I'd say the collective term for the number of bitfury boards I saw would be a "megashitload", or often translated to a "mine" of boards

Holy crap.
People bought the chips, had them assembled and hosted with BA. Just happens to be the only place with enough power is their factory- there office allready has too many miners and was blowing breakers. Why is that so hard to believe?

[Gator-hex]

This is a very angry, accusatory, suspicious community.

Yeah, kinda went that way after we went down the FPGA/ASIC rabbit hole.

The Litecoin community is how the Bitcoin community used to be everyone was happy and care free.

[Biffa]

BlackArrow has been claiming that somehow running a Bitfury mine is proof that they can deliver their own design.

They never made such a claim.  Instead someone visited their factory and took pictures of a bunch of bitfury boards there were running.  That's all.

I am, however, still waiting for an explanation of what all those boards are doing there.  They were said to be customers' boards.  If that's so, why haven't they been shipped out to those customers?

I'd like an explanation as well, it does seem mighty strange that they had.. well from the pictures I saw I wouldn't call it "a bunch" I'd say the collective term for the number of bitfury boards I saw would be a "megashitload", or often translated to a "mine" of boards

Holy crap.
People bought the chips, had them assembled and hosted with BA. Just happens to be the only place with enough power is their factory- there office allready has too many miners and was blowing breakers. Why is that so hard to believe?

Its not hard to believe at all Mr Bob, its just the first I've heard it explained that way.

[Bogart]

BlackArrow has been claiming that somehow running a Bitfury mine is proof that they can deliver their own design.

They never made such a claim.  Instead someone visited their factory and took pictures of a bunch of bitfury boards there were running.  That's all.

I am, however, still waiting for an explanation of what all those boards are doing there.  They were said to be customers' boards.  If that's so, why haven't they been shipped out to those customers?

I'd like an explanation as well, it does seem mighty strange that they had.. well from the pictures I saw I wouldn't call it "a bunch" I'd say the collective term for the number of bitfury boards I saw would be a "megashitload", or often translated to a "mine" of boards

Holy crap.
People bought the chips, had them assembled and hosted with BA. Just happens to be the only place with enough power is their factory- there office allready has too many miners and was blowing breakers. Why is that so hard to believe?

It's not.  I was just saying that I had asked this question in the BA thread and never got a response.

[grv]

I'm not naming names... cough... VMC... cough... Bitmine... but are these "other" 28nm players... cough... BlackArrow... cough... really going to deliver a working ASIC ever?

bitmine seems quite legit, well unless the videos from their assembly line are fake

[hieroglyph]

I don't know but I'm gonna watch this thread and see what other think about this.  Seems like mining is becoming a seedy business more and more.  Would be nice if there was more competition among the mining companies.

[PenAndPaper]

People pre ordering are taking their risks and i don't know why they are angry or edgy. I mean they have every right but so far this is what usually happens with pre orders so they should know better.

[Septimus]

The whole concept of BTC is suspicious; anonymous man creates the currency, no name companies arrive with no histories and start creating chips/devices for currency, feds popularize it...and now suddenly we have a million dollar (TAXABLE) industry out of thin air that doesn't maintain it's anonymity when it trickles down to us. Not to mention the chips/devices require continuous expensive upgrades to make sure they're noticeable on bank statements.  Hell yes I'm suspicious.

[rethyk]

call me naive or foolish if you want, though some of the companies listed have shipped product before.  what that tells me is they have some sort of idea of what is required to give accurate ship dates and are not flying by the seat of their pants as was the case with BFL, but lets not talk about them.  I will admit that I've got a pre-order for a BA X-1 and thinking about a 2nd unit if I see progress and a finalized design but at the same time I'm only spending money that I know I won't miss in case things go really south.  the biggest problem is people are stretching themselves and aiming to be dependent on the money that they should be bringing in with the miners and if you ask me that's just asking for trouble.

[Septimus]

call me naive or foolish if you want, though some of the companies listed have shipped product before.  what that tells me is they have some sort of idea of what is required to give accurate ship dates and are not flying by the seat of their pants as was the case with BFL, but lets not talk about them.  I will admit that I've got a pre-order for a BA X-1 and thinking about a 2nd unit if I see progress and a finalized design but at the same time I'm only spending money that I know I won't miss in case things go really south.  the biggest problem is people are stretching themselves and aiming to be dependent on the money that they should be bringing in with the miners and if you ask me that's just asking for trouble.

It's the money you won't miss that business loves the most.

[FlappySocks]

Its not hard to believe at all Mr Bob, its just the first I've heard it explained that way.

BA also need to test each unit before it ships.  You have to do it somewhere.
At least with the Prospero, they are offering to do the QC with your bitcoin key, I have not heard of any other manufacturer doing this.