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Author Topic: Stop misusing the term hacker people  (Read 2630 times)
the founder
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August 11, 2011, 01:44:47 PM
 #1

Maybe I'm old school,  but when I was growing up the term "hacker" didn't mean the same thing it means today.

When someone used the word hacker in the 1980's, 1990's and even the early 2000's it meant someone that disassembled something, and rebuilt it better beyond it's initial design.    For example if someone developed a way to compress a proprietary video stream by 90% but retained 100% of it's clarity then that guy would be considered a hacker...  because he improved an existing technology.

It didn't apply to someone that stole from eCommerce stores...  the term hacker was never used in that context,  the term used was thief or criminal.

If someone goes in and clears out an exchange of it's bitcoins,  that's not a hacker,  that's a criminal.   It's just bugging me because the terms are mutually exclusive.. and I'm seeing them thrown around as if it's the same thing.



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August 11, 2011, 01:48:15 PM
 #2

What about "Cracker"?

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August 11, 2011, 02:03:39 PM
 #3

It's just bugging me because the terms are mutually exclusive.. and I'm seeing them thrown around as if it's the same thing.

the evolution of language.

gay isn't gay anymore either.

and terrific isn't so terrific.
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August 11, 2011, 02:15:45 PM
 #4

It's just bugging me because the terms are mutually exclusive.. and I'm seeing them thrown around as if it's the same thing.

the evolution of language.

gay isn't gay anymore either.

and terrific isn't so terrific.


thats the way i look at it...lanquage is fluid and alive; it changes and evolves with time Smiley

but i can see your point OP...i cringe everytime someone calls my tattoo machine a "gun".
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August 11, 2011, 02:18:47 PM
 #5

Man stop phreakin. 

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August 11, 2011, 02:19:03 PM
 #6

yeah it's gone wrong in the mainstream too much...
we can use hacking correctly but fiat people will get it wrong.

but I'm up for using it in the right way.
cracking == bad
hacking == good

In the Beginning there was CPU , then GPU , then FPGA then ASIC, what next I hear to ask ....

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August 11, 2011, 02:23:25 PM
 #7

we can use hacking correctly but fiat people will get it wrong.

fiat people: people that have value only because of government regulation or law.
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August 11, 2011, 02:28:08 PM
 #8

While we're at it, everyone should stop misusing the term astro too. It means star, people. Star.
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August 11, 2011, 02:31:31 PM
 #9

verb /hak/

1.Cut with rough or heavy blows

    * - hack off the dead branches

2.Use a computer to gain unauthorized access to data in a system

    * - they hacked into a bank's computer



Wow they even used a relevant example

stfu you pretentious cry baby.  Roll Eyes
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August 11, 2011, 02:36:21 PM
 #10

Maybe I'm old school,  but when I was growing up the term "hacker" didn't mean the same thing it means today.

When someone used the word hacker in the 1980's, 1990's and even the early 2000's it meant someone that disassembled something, and rebuilt it better beyond it's initial design.    For example if someone developed a way to compress a proprietary video stream by 90% but retained 100% of it's clarity then that guy would be considered a hacker...  because he improved an existing technology.

It didn't apply to someone that stole from eCommerce stores...  the term hacker was never used in that context,  the term used was thief or criminal.

If someone goes in and clears out an exchange of it's bitcoins,  that's not a hacker,  that's a criminal.   It's just bugging me because the terms are mutually exclusive.. and I'm seeing them thrown around as if it's the same thing.

I think it has both associations - even going way back.
To 'hack' something is to make use of it in a way not intended during it's design.

This can be an act of wizardry in improving something - or combined with an act of antagonism in breaking/defeating/stealing something of somebody else's.
In the context of defeating a security device/system - whether it's 'good' or 'bad' is often debatable.

Even in the sense of 'improving' something...  to say something is a 'bit of a hack' or 'was hacked together' ... implies a certain rough practicality and taking of short-cuts in comparison to up-front design.
It's little wonder that the similar rough methodologies and reverse-engineering of systems should be termed 'hacking in' with reference to gaining unauthorised access.

I don't see how you can claim 'hacker' and 'criminal' are mutually exclusive.  They're attributes/labels that *can* both be held by one person.
It is sad that the media often seems to conflate 'criminal' and 'hacker' - not realizing that 'criminal' is an additional attribute held by a minority of hackers - but they've been using 'hacker' to refer to people breaking into computer systems since the 80's if not earlier.

I think that by now we just have to accept that 'hack', like 'fuck' - is a very versatile word.




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August 11, 2011, 02:40:40 PM
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hacking is a combination of many things.

compressing a video is RE and innovation.

although hacking can be good, they both use the same techniques to achieve a similar goal.

is hacking:
sql injection
dumping a database directly from the outside
exploiting bugs

not hacking:
dos/ddos (although you can hack into systems to get resources to dos/ddos)
client side stuff (although in gaming terms this is hacking, but in general terms it is not(its "cheating") unless the server itself if being compromised)

there is a huge amount of technicalities i don't care to remember or list. some in the list could be wrong, but whatever. i think we should instead of saying "hack" we say the user/pass database was dumped or whatever happened.

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August 11, 2011, 02:44:40 PM
 #12

ESR has been whining about this for decades... hasn't happened. I whined about it for years too, until I wised up.

The purpose of a lexicon is to describe the way language is used, not to set hard and fast rules about how it should be used. Language evolves. We lost, it's time to get over it.

At the very least, "hacker" has dual meanings and you're using the more esoteric version. Claiming the more mainstream accepted version isn't correct is about the equivalent of throwing a temper tantrum: everyone looks at you, but they don't respect you over it and it's not going to change anything.

^_^
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August 11, 2011, 03:17:13 PM
 #13

Maybe I'm old school,  but when I was growing up the term "hacker" didn't mean the same thing it means today.

When someone used the word hacker in the 1980's, 1990's and even the early 2000's it meant someone that disassembled something, and rebuilt it better beyond it's initial design.    For example if someone developed a way to compress a proprietary video stream by 90% but retained 100% of it's clarity then that guy would be considered a hacker...  because he improved an existing technology.

It didn't apply to someone that stole from eCommerce stores...  the term hacker was never used in that context,  the term used was thief or criminal.

If someone goes in and clears out an exchange of it's bitcoins,  that's not a hacker,  that's a criminal.   It's just bugging me because the terms are mutually exclusive.. and I'm seeing them thrown around as if it's the same thing.




Agreed!

Annoys the shit out of me when I see these news stations "cnn,fox" say hackers compromised sony blah blah blah. I've emailed a few new station telling the idiots they are not hackers but crackers that are cyber criminals. Same with games, omg, pc gaming, "saying someone is hacking" annoys the shit out of me, its idiots taking someones bot and using it for walling or aim botting etc. Same goes for forums, "hacker got into my mtgox account" no, someone cracked into mtgox. Glad I am not the only one that agrees on this Fact.
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August 11, 2011, 05:09:02 PM
 #14

Hacker people?

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August 11, 2011, 05:20:53 PM
 #15

Maybe I'm old school,  but when I was growing up the term "hacker" didn't mean the same thing it means today.

When someone used the word hacker in the 1980's, 1990's and even the early 2000's it meant someone that disassembled something, and rebuilt it better beyond it's initial design.    For example if someone developed a way to compress a proprietary video stream by 90% but retained 100% of it's clarity then that guy would be considered a hacker...  because he improved an existing technology.

It didn't apply to someone that stole from eCommerce stores...  the term hacker was never used in that context,  the term used was thief or criminal.

If someone goes in and clears out an exchange of it's bitcoins,  that's not a hacker,  that's a criminal.   It's just bugging me because the terms are mutually exclusive.. and I'm seeing them thrown around as if it's the same thing.




Agreed!

Annoys the shit out of me when I see these news stations "cnn,fox" say hackers compromised sony blah blah blah. I've emailed a few new station telling the idiots they are not hackers but crackers that are cyber criminals. Same with games, omg, pc gaming, "saying someone is hacking" annoys the shit out of me, its idiots taking someones bot and using it for walling or aim botting etc. Same goes for forums, "hacker got into my mtgox account" no, someone cracked into mtgox. Glad I am not the only one that agrees on this Fact.

Evidently we're the minority on this,  but it's fine..   You can't change people's minds... 



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August 11, 2011, 05:41:26 PM
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Maybe I'm old school,  but when I was growing up the term "hacker" didn't mean the same thing it means today.

When someone used the word hacker in the 1980's, 1990's and even the early 2000's it meant someone that disassembled something, and rebuilt it better beyond it's initial design.    For example if someone developed a way to compress a proprietary video stream by 90% but retained 100% of it's clarity then that guy would be considered a hacker...  because he improved an existing technology.

It didn't apply to someone that stole from eCommerce stores...  the term hacker was never used in that context,  the term used was thief or criminal.

If someone goes in and clears out an exchange of it's bitcoins,  that's not a hacker,  that's a criminal.   It's just bugging me because the terms are mutually exclusive.. and I'm seeing them thrown around as if it's the same thing.

Language evolve man, just have to live with it. No point trying to fight the tide of linguistic evolution. I used to get annoyed about these things, still remember when folks were trying to make the distinction between hackers and crackers (is this even in use today?). As well as things like the "CPU" isn't the box sitting on your table/floor. But well, it's generally waste of breath Cheesy

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August 11, 2011, 05:43:50 PM
 #17

Language evolve man, just have to live with it. No point trying to fight the tide of linguistic evolution. I used to get annoyed about these things, still remember when folks were trying to make the distinction between hackers and crackers (is this even in use today?). As well as things like the "CPU" isn't the box sitting on your table/floor. But well, it's generally waste of breath Cheesy

today its still difficult to determine what a CPU is in server software licensing. is 1 cpu a considered a core or 1 physical cpu? don't get started on logical cores lol.

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August 11, 2011, 05:51:30 PM
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Language evolve man, just have to live with it. No point trying to fight the tide of linguistic evolution. I used to get annoyed about these things, still remember when folks were trying to make the distinction between hackers and crackers (is this even in use today?). As well as things like the "CPU" isn't the box sitting on your table/floor. But well, it's generally waste of breath Cheesy

today its still difficult to determine what a CPU is in server software licensing. is 1 cpu a considered a core or 1 physical cpu? don't get started on logical cores lol.

I thought they pretty much decided to settle on whichever makes them more money and/or suits their corporate direction? Anti-virtualization and profit-first goes for per core real or physical or per real/virtualized server. Pro-customer and pro-virtualization goes for per socket. Cheesy

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August 11, 2011, 06:09:02 PM
 #19

from wikepedia:

"Fred Shapiro thinks that "the common theory that 'hacker' originally was a benign term and the malicious connotations of the word were a later perversion is untrue." He found out that the malicious connotations were present at MIT in 1963 already (quoting The Tech, a MIT Student Magazine) and then referred to unauthorized users of the telephone network,[10][11] that is, the phreaker movement that developed into the computer security hacker subculture of today."


So basically, if I read that correctly, in 1963 the word hacker already was being used in the common way
we do now...

thus OP.. are you sure your memory is correct? ;-)

or maybe people who have this debate like the elitist usage of the word versus a person who
can "hack" into a linux box remotely/locally and more then likely has just as much skill, if not more, then
the people using the term to describe their hobby project.
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August 11, 2011, 06:14:14 PM
 #20

Isn't a "hacker" anyone modifying something?

There are many forms of hacker's.
Like...
- Hack into a bank.
How?
- Social Engineering (Manipulating the human interface / bank teller).
- Exploits / Backdoors (SQL Injection, XSS...etc).
- Just borrow money from the safe, simple? You'd be modifying the number of [Currency] in the safe.
- ...etc

Also,
- Taking down a tree.
How?
- Hack at it... (You're modifying the stability of the tree).

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