What can I do with a bitcoin?

[porc]

If I give you something valuable I want something valuable in return.

Now we all know what you want me to give up for bitcoin: food, water, property, services, laptops, internet, jewelry. With water I can quench my thirst, with food I can feed my family, in property I can live, with jewelry I can surprise my girlfriend etc.

Thats the PRICE of bitcoin (at least for today).

Now what do you give me in return?

What can I do with a bitcoin once you have transferred it to me?

[bitteriest]

You can buy 3D printed card with Snapily.com
It's awesome

[porc]

You can buy 3D printed card with Snapily.com
It's awesome

Why would he want to give me the awesome 3D printed card for bitcoin?

What can this merchant do with bitcoin?

[Savior]

You can buy 3D printed card with Snapily.com
It's awesome

Why would he want to give me the awesome 3D printed card for bitcoin?

What can this merchant do with bitcoin?

Well, he can buy almost anything he wants with it.

[protokol]

Now what do you give me in return?

What can I do with a bitcoin once you have transferred it to me?

I think the idea is you can then exchange the bitcoin for goods/services/fiat currency etc, the same way you would exchange a $100 bill for other stuff.

I don't need to be able to do anything intrinsically with the bitcoin or the $100 bill (i.e. I can't eat or drink either of them) for them to have exchange value.

[porc]

Now what do you give me in return?

What can I do with a bitcoin once you have transferred it to me?

I think the idea is you can then exchange the bitcoin for goods/services/fiat currency etc, the same way you would exchange a $100 bill for other stuff.

I don't need to be able to do anything intrinsically with the bitcoin or the $100 bill (i.e. I can't eat or drink either of them) for them to have exchange value.

Gold always was wanted because it looks great. People like to wear it and touch it. When I exchanged something for gold I received value.

The Dollar only had value because government forces us to accept it. If I exchange something for dollars, I get government guns to make sure it will buy me goods

Now what about Bitcoin? Why Exchange Something for Nothing? If your answer is because you can transfer Nothing cheaply let me tell you this:

Incurring a cost (something) for transferring nothing is a waste not a benefit.

[empoweoqwj]

Now what do you give me in return?

What can I do with a bitcoin once you have transferred it to me?

I think the idea is you can then exchange the bitcoin for goods/services/fiat currency etc, the same way you would exchange a $100 bill for other stuff.

I don't need to be able to do anything intrinsically with the bitcoin or the $100 bill (i.e. I can't eat or drink either of them) for them to have exchange value.

Gold always was wanted because it looks great. People like to wear it and touch it. When I exchanged something for gold I received value.

The Dollar only had value because government forces us to accept it. If I exchange something for dollars, I get government guns to make sure it will buy me goods

Now what about Bitcoin? Why Exchange Something for Nothing? If your answer is because you can transfer Nothing cheaply let me tell you this:

Incurring a cost (something) for transferring nothing is a waste not a benefit.

You can exchange back to fiat if you want to spend it at places that only accept fiat. or you can spend it at places that accept bitcoin.

Try sending money from one country to another (wire, western union, etc) within one hour and for a tiny fee. You won't be able to.

You can seem to be claiming bitcoin has no use, whilst gold has a use "because it looks great". I suggest you read some articles about potential uses of bitcoin (its a very long list) before launching off into "bitcoin has no value" tirade.

[xDan]

The Dollar only had value because government forces us to accept it. If I exchange something for dollars, I get government guns to make sure it will buy me goods

"Government force" is just one of many things that gives the dollar value. The greater thing that gives the dollar value is the millions of people willing to accept it as payment. The government mandate helps drive acceptance, but it's the acceptance itself that gives the value, not the mandate.

Bitcoin can grow in this space because merchants choose to accept it as payment. The end result is the same. Sure, they may decide one day that they'll no longer accept it... but for today, they do, and that's enough.

Until you can accept that a currency does not require government force for it to be useful, you won't be able to rationalise Bitcoin. Maybe Bitcoin will be the experiment to prove this point for you and others.

All value is a belief, whether dollars or bitcoins or gold. The merchants accept it due to the belief that tomorrow or next week or next year they'll be able to redeem their Bitcoin for other things they need.

If people ceased to believe they need to live in houses and buy posh cars, those things would be worth zero tomorrow. Ideas, intellectual properties, are often considered to have value despite being as intangible as Bitcoin.

Everything has value because of belief it can satisfy a present or a future need. Or even more basic: it has value because some human somewhere believes it has value.

Maybe the belief that Bitcoin will still be exchangeable for goods a month or a year from now is wrong, but I think it likely will. Others do too. There's your belief.

Maybe we're all wrong.

Maybe the US Government will go down tomorrow, and USD will be worthless.

Hedge your bets appropriately.

[porc]

Now what do you give me in return?

What can I do with a bitcoin once you have transferred it to me?

I think the idea is you can then exchange the bitcoin for goods/services/fiat currency etc, the same way you would exchange a $100 bill for other stuff.

I don't need to be able to do anything intrinsically with the bitcoin or the $100 bill (i.e. I can't eat or drink either of them) for them to have exchange value.

Gold always was wanted because it looks great. People like to wear it and touch it. When I exchanged something for gold I received value.

The Dollar only had value because government forces us to accept it. If I exchange something for dollars, I get government guns to make sure it will buy me goods

Now what about Bitcoin? Why Exchange Something for Nothing? If your answer is because you can transfer Nothing cheaply let me tell you this:

Incurring a cost (something) for transferring nothing is a waste not a benefit.

You can exchange back to fiat if you want to spend it at places that only accept fiat. or you can spend it at places that accept bitcoin.

Try sending money from one country to another (wire, western union, etc) within one hour and for a tiny fee. You won't be able to.

You can seem to be claiming bitcoin has no use, whilst gold has a use "because it looks great". I suggest you read some articles about potential uses of bitcoin (its a very long list) before launching off into "bitcoin has no value" tirade.

Why would somebody want to exchange something (dollars) for nothing (bitcoin)?

We are back to the original question.

Long list of potential uses for bitcoin? Name one use of bitcoin except dumping it on the next guy?

[ilpirata79]

Why would somebody want to exchange something (dollars) for nothing (bitcoin)?

We are back to the original question.

Long list of potential uses for bitcoin? Name one use of bitcoin except dumping it on the next guy?

Please, stop trolling all around the forum with your nonsense.

Best regards,
ilpirata79

[CoinsForTech]

Why would somebody want to exchange something (dollars) for nothing (bitcoin)?

We are back to the original question.

Long list of potential uses for bitcoin? Name one use of bitcoin except dumping it on the next guy?

Think of bitcoin as a currency and you'll realize how stupid you sound.

You exchange bitcoin for goods and services because you know that people consider it to have value. Just like the dollar, gold or other commodities.

Probably worth doing some more reading

[paul44]

Its money, just in the same way that other currencies are money. There is no magic to all of this but maybe we are misunderstanding your question.

[porc]

The Dollar only had value because government forces us to accept it. If I exchange something for dollars, I get government guns to make sure it will buy me goods

1) "Government force" is just one of many things that gives the dollar value. The greater thing that gives the dollar value is the millions of people willing to accept it as payment. The government mandate helps drive acceptance, but it's the acceptance itself that gives the value, not the mandate.

2) Bitcoin can grow in this space because merchants choose to accept it as payment. The end result is the same. Sure, they may decide one day that they'll no longer accept it... but for today, they do, and that's enough.

3) Until you can accept that a currency does not require government force for it to be useful, you won't be able to rationalise Bitcoin. Maybe Bitcoin will be the experiment to prove this point for you and others.

4) All value is a belief, whether dollars or bitcoins or gold. The merchants accept it due to the belief that tomorrow or next week or next year they'll be able to redeem their Bitcoin for other things they need.

5) If people ceased to believe they need to live in houses and buy posh cars, those things would be worth zero tomorrow. Ideas, intellectual properties, are often considered to have value despite being as intangible as Bitcoin.

6) Everything has value because of belief it can satisfy a present or a future need. Or even more basic: it has value because some human somewhere believes it has value.

7) Maybe the belief that Bitcoin will still be exchangeable for goods a month or a year from now is wrong, but I think it likely will. Others do too. There's your belief.

8) Maybe we're all wrong.

9) Maybe the US Government will go down tomorrow, and USD will be worthless.

Hedge your bets appropriately.

Thanks for your reply (serious). I think it demonstrates perfectly why bitcoiners are misguided. Let me go through your points one by one.

1) Your statement that "the greater thing that gives dollar value is the millions of people accepting it" is incorrect. It is the ONLY thing that gives dollars value. Now the reason anybody accepts nothing (paper) for something (goods) is that government forces us to do so (dollars have to be accepted for payment of any debt by law, alternative media of exchange are outlawed, ex. Liberty Gold or the use of soft force (regulation) makes it impossible to use them). If government would not force us to accept and use dollars the dollars price would return to the value of the paper content: almost 0.

2) Merchants will not accept nothing (bitcoin) for something. Merchants at the moment are dumping bitcoins immediately for dollars. This has been discussed already by this forum.

3) I agree. I think that Bitcoin is only bought because people are misguided and now (the majority) greedy. They think that bitcoin will continue to explode in price. They dont care about Bitcoins value (which I think is 0). I think Bitcoin will prove that you cant exchange "nothing" for "something" and that "nothing" is worth 0, even if "nothing" is rare (bitcoin might be abundant once nobody wants them anymore).

4) "All value is belief". No. I dont have to believe in the value of water. Water is valuable to human kind period. Nothing will change this "value judgement" (as if you could suddenly not decide to drink). You have to be delusional if you state that the belief in the "value" of 1 bitcoin (I cant do anything with it) is the same as belief in the value of water (I need it to survive).

5) Again similar answer to 4). People need shelter. Its not a believe that I hold, that I need shelter. If I want to stay warm and comfortable in winter times or when it rains I need shelter (aka reality). Equating this reality to the belief that bitcoin has value is laughable.

6) Same answer as 4) + 5)

7) You belief that something will be exchanged for nothing. It has never worked over a longer period of time in the history of man kind.

8) We will see what the future brings.

9) We agree.

[Sabi]

You are willing to give up your water for BitCoin?  Wow!  Just flushed a couple of times for free...  Send me your BC.

[HELP.org]

http://BitcoinFood.com

[zimmah]

What can you do with a dollar, except wipe your ass with it?

[porc]

http://BitcoinFood.com

So the answer is: I can dump it on the next guy?

Bitcoiners: Bitcoin has no value for itself. However I can dump them on the next guy! This is a technological revolution.

sane person: But why should I buy bitcoin, if they have not value for themselves. Why should I exchange something for nothing only to hope that I can dump nothing on the next guy in exchange of something? This sounds like a pyramid not a monetary system.

Bitcoiners: Hush. Fucking troll.

[porc]

You are willing to give up your water for BitCoin?  Wow!  Just flushed a couple of times for free...  Send me your BC.

Well I cant even flush bitcoin down the toilet. So I give you water that you can drink and flush down the toilet.

You give me a Bitcoin which is a fancy word for nothing.

def Bitcoin: Nothing that I can transfer at a cost.

[HELP.org]

You are willing to give up your water for BitCoin?  Wow!  Just flushed a couple of times for free...  Send me your BC.

Well I cant even flush bitcoin down the toilet. So I give you water that you can drink and flush down the toilet.

You give me a Bitcoin which is a fancy word for nothing.

def Bitcoin: Nothing that I can transfer at a cost.

Correct.  When you think about it the same thing applies to all forms of money since humans started using money.  Once you realize that most of the objections to Bitcoin disappear.

[porc]

So the answer is: I can dump it on the next guy?

Yes. It is called a medium of exchange. That is the purpose of a currency. It represents value. You can exchange it for value.

Anyway, why are you singling out Bitcoin? 1) Every form of money has a value greater than the value of its utility (beyond its value as a currency).

Golds value is that people like to look at it and touch it, they think its pretty. This value is why people accept it as a payment of goods and services. Golds monetary value is therefore directly linked and dependent on it being pretty. If it would not have been pretty we would not want it and thus it would not be widespread money.

You cant seperate between money value and utility  as gold is only money because it has utility (it being pretty).

Bitcoin has no utility (like being pretty) and thus its other aspects (scare, divisible etc.) are irrelevant.