Swiss parliamentary postulate: Bitcoin is a currency

[Hermel]

Stop that bullshit talk here...

There is NO line about using it as foreign currency.
It's just a postulate to evaluate the RISKs of bitcoin.

Nothing else.

http://www.parlament.ch/d/suche/seiten/geschaefte.aspx?gesch_id=20133687

I have good news for you: you linked to the wrong postulate. Here is the new one: http://www.parlament.ch/e/suche/Pages/geschaefte.aspx?gesch_id=20134070

I fail to find the actual text...

The text has not been translated yet in all three official languages, so it is not yet online on the parliament's website. However, the text can also be found in the press release of parldigi: http://www.digitale-nachhaltigkeit.ch/2013/12/bitcoin/

[molecular]

Stop that bullshit talk here...

There is NO line about using it as foreign currency.
It's just a postulate to evaluate the RISKs of bitcoin.

Nothing else.

http://www.parlament.ch/d/suche/seiten/geschaefte.aspx?gesch_id=20133687

I have good news for you: you linked to the wrong postulate. Here is the new one: http://www.parlament.ch/e/suche/Pages/geschaefte.aspx?gesch_id=20134070

I fail to find the actual text...

The text has not been translated yet in all three official languages, so it is not yet online on the parliament's website. However, the text can also be found in the press release of parldigi: http://www.digitale-nachhaltigkeit.ch/2013/12/bitcoin/

Thanks. Later found it in the press release myself. I'm german, can even understand most "Schwiiitzerdütsch" because I grew up in range of Swiss TV and Radio stations.

[PenAndPaper]

I don't see how these are good news. It's just a question to evaluate bitcoins.
I mean it's good that they care about bitcoin but the final ruling is what it matters. 

[18RATTT]

thanks for the info, good news indeed.

[bryant.coleman]

I don't mind what politicians think about bitcoin, as they can't control it. Anyway I remember the following news from Switzerland:

Swiss banks ditch secrecy
http://rt.com/business/game-changer-swiss-banking-secrecy-254/

So it's an interesting opportunity to whoever deposited money in Swiss bank accounts to migrate to bitcoin and be free from government control

Well.. I have a feeling that this measure was the stimulant behind the Bitcoin postulate.

If the Swiss banks ditch secrecy, their business will get (severely) affected. So probably in order to neutralize the possible repercussions in the Swiss financial sector, the parliamentarians are proposing to make Switzerland the world leader in Bitcoin marketing.

[PenAndPaper]

I don't mind what politicians think about bitcoin, as they can't control it. Anyway I remember the following news from Switzerland:

Swiss banks ditch secrecy
http://rt.com/business/game-changer-swiss-banking-secrecy-254/

So it's an interesting opportunity to whoever deposited money in Swiss bank accounts to migrate to bitcoin and be free from government control

Well.. I have a feeling that this measure was the stimulant behind the Bitcoin postulate.

If the Swiss banks ditch secrecy, their business will get (severely) affected. So probably in order to neutralize the possible repercussions in the Swiss financial sector, the parliamentarians are proposing to make Switzerland the world leader in Bitcoin marketing.

From one question for an evaluation about what bitcoin is, we went to a "proposal to make Switzerland the world leader in Bitcoin marketing"??!! 
That escalated quickly 

[SimonBelmond]

Damit liesse sich Bitcoin im Kontext des GWG, KAG, MWSTG und anderer Gesetze einordnen und es würde Rechtssicherheit hergestellt.

Excuse my ignorance: how are capital gains of foreign currency holdings taxed?

No capital gain taxes for private persons as long as you are not living of trading, basically. So the ordinary citisen will only pay welth tax (not much), no capital gain tax. However, you can not deduct losses from your income either.

[molecular]

I don't mind what politicians think about bitcoin, as they can't control it. Anyway I remember the following news from Switzerland:

Swiss banks ditch secrecy
http://rt.com/business/game-changer-swiss-banking-secrecy-254/

So it's an interesting opportunity to whoever deposited money in Swiss bank accounts to migrate to bitcoin and be free from government control

Well.. I have a feeling that this measure was the stimulant behind the Bitcoin postulate.

If the Swiss banks ditch secrecy, their business will get (severely) affected. So probably in order to neutralize the possible repercussions in the Swiss financial sector because they bought bitcoins, the parliamentarians are proposing to make Switzerland the world leader in Bitcoin marketing.

ftfy

[molecular]

Damit liesse sich Bitcoin im Kontext des GWG, KAG, MWSTG und anderer Gesetze einordnen und es würde Rechtssicherheit hergestellt.

Excuse my ignorance: how are capital gains of foreign currency holdings taxed?

No capital gain taxes for private persons as long as you are not living of trading, basically. So the ordinary citisen will only pay welth tax (not much), no capital gain tax. However, you can not deduct losses from your income either.

I see, thanks for the info. It's quite adequate to tax Bitcoin gains like that, imo.

[mladen00]

great news,

now waiting for other...

[stereotype]

Damit liesse sich Bitcoin im Kontext des GWG, KAG, MWSTG und anderer Gesetze einordnen und es würde Rechtssicherheit hergestellt.

Excuse my ignorance: how are capital gains of foreign currency holdings taxed?

No capital gain taxes for private persons as long as you are not living of trading, basically. So the ordinary citisen will only pay welth tax (not much), no capital gain tax. However, you can not deduct losses from your income either.

This is true for UK, in that, it has the same parallel if you were spread-betting.....if you can show a legitimately consistent income from elsewhere, any gains from trading spread-betting derivatives can legally be exempt. It even says so on the websites (4th/5th lines up from bottom of page)......
 
http://www.cityindex.co.uk/offers-spread-betting/?cid=0000225704&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=spread%20betting&ef_id=UqRG9gAAAUTp@NHj:20131210095504:s 

"......and depend on individual circumstances." is a reference to your own EXISTING taxable income, with an understanding that that existing income cannot be derived from trading activities.

And yes, some dodgy City Boys have been pushing the boundaries on this, for years!!

[bryant.coleman]

No capital gain taxes for private persons as long as you are not living of trading, basically. So the ordinary citisen will only pay welth tax (not much), no capital gain tax. However, you can not deduct losses from your income either.

How much is the wealth tax in Switzerland?

Is it possible for non-citizens to temporarily reside in Switzerland and sell their Bitcoins for CHF?

[lclc]

How much is the wealth tax in Switzerland?

Depends on the village & Kanton you live (there is no wealth tax for the government/ the state), but AFAIK generally very low.
In the village I live it's 1'600 CHF for 1 Million Swiss Francs.
You can calculate it here for Kt. Schwyz (guess this is available for other Kantons too): http://www.sz.ch/xml_1/internet/de/application/d5/d939/d24240/d734/d24055/p2436.cfm

Is it possible for non-citizens to temporarily reside in Switzerland and sell their Bitcoins for CHF?

You wouldn't have to pay taxes in Switzerland for that, but that would probably depend on the country you live in now. I think it might be possible to avoid taxe this way, but better ask a tax consultant

[Hermel]

Is it possible for non-citizens to temporarily reside in Switzerland and sell their Bitcoins for CHF?

In theory, yes. Unless you are from the US or Eritrea. These are the only two countries that tax their citizens regardless of where they live.

If there a double-taxation agreement in place with your country and Switzerland, taxes are usually calculated pro rata. I.e. if you move to Switzerland on July 1st, you have to pay 50% taxes in Switzerland and 50% taxes in your previous country - regardless of whether you realize your capital gains before or after July 1st. Thus, if you want to realize are your gains in Switzerland, you would have to live here from January 1st until December 31st of the relevant year. Also, if your country of origin is outside the EU, it might not be easy to get a residence permit in Switzerland.

[stereotype]

Is it possible for non-citizens to temporarily reside in Switzerland and sell their Bitcoins for CHF?

In theory, yes. Unless you are from the US or Eritrea. These are the only two countries that tax their citizens regardless of where they live.

If there a double-taxation agreement in place with your country and Switzerland, taxes are usually calculated pro rata. I.e. if you move to Switzerland on July 1st, you have to pay 50% taxes in Switzerland and 50% taxes in your previous country - regardless of whether you realize your capital gains before or after July 1st. Thus, if you want to realize are your gains in Switzerland, you would have to live here from January 1st until December 31st of the relevant year. Also, if your country of origin is outside the EU, it might not be easy to get a residence permit in Switzerland.

I used to understand inter-Europe residency, for tax purposes, was defined as 6months+1day, permanently in the country you wanted to declare in. Thats probably been updated recently though.

[Hermel]

I used to understand inter-Europe residency, for tax purposes, was defined as 6months+1day, permanently in the country you wanted to declare in. Thats probably been updated recently though.

Note that Switzerland is outside the European Union (actually, geographically it is inside - but rather surrounded than part of it  ) - so different rules apply here.

[Spekulatius]

Just letting everybody know that we will meet Mr. Schwaab tomorrow for an interview, if you have any questions for him, let us know!
Link: http://www.parlament.ch/d/suche/seiten/geschaefte.aspx?gesch_id=20133687
Link: https://bitcointhedocumentary.org/wordpress/?p=696

[Hermel]

Just letting everybody know that we will meet Mr. Schwaab tomorrow for an interview, if you have any questions for him, let us know!

Nice to see bitcointhedocumentary.org reporting about this.

I actually spoke to him two weeks ago. If you want to get in touch with parldigi (the authors of the new postulate), let me know.

[bryant.coleman]

Also, if your country of origin is outside the EU, it might not be easy to get a residence permit in Switzerland.

Hmm.. that is bad for non-Swiss bitcoin enthusiasts. But still I am happy for my Swiss brothers.

[marcus_of_augustus]

Good news from one of the last bastions for monetary freedom and rational govt.

Go Switzerland!