Bitcoin Forum
September 18, 2018, 04:37:41 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.16.2  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Number of nodes  (Read 902 times)
natd
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


View Profile
December 10, 2013, 07:56:17 PM
 #1

Would BTC protocol survive with 3 or four nodes only?

In search of light in cryptocurrency.
1537288661
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537288661

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537288661
Reply with quote  #2

1537288661
Report to moderator
1537288661
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537288661

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537288661
Reply with quote  #2

1537288661
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1537288661
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537288661

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537288661
Reply with quote  #2

1537288661
Report to moderator
1537288661
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537288661

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537288661
Reply with quote  #2

1537288661
Report to moderator
gweedo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 1000


Java, PHP, HTML/CSS Programmer for Hire!


View Profile WWW
December 10, 2013, 08:01:49 PM
 #2

Depends who was running those nodes, the protocol can survive on more than 1 node. But would you trust only 3 people to run those nodes? Probably not.

Want to earn 2500 SATOSHIS per hour? Come Chat and Chill in https://goseemybits.com/lobby
yogi
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 947
Merit: 1021


Hamster ate my bitcoin


View Profile
December 10, 2013, 08:08:09 PM
 #3

When there are too few nodes bitcoin becomes susceptible to a low level network attack.

natd
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


View Profile
December 10, 2013, 08:10:10 PM
 #4

Depends who was running those nodes, the protocol can survive on more than 1 node. But would you trust only 3 people to run those nodes? Probably not.
Right. But then, with 3 nodes, there would be only 3 confirmations for a transaction, correct?

In search of light in cryptocurrency.
natd
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


View Profile
December 10, 2013, 08:14:50 PM
 #5

When there are too few nodes bitcoin becomes susceptible to a low level network attack.

Ok. And that depends on the number of miners among the 3 nodes, or it wouldn't matter?

In search of light in cryptocurrency.
pontiacg5
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 364
Merit: 250



View Profile
December 10, 2013, 08:19:48 PM
 #6

Depends who was running those nodes, the protocol can survive on more than 1 node. But would you trust only 3 people to run those nodes? Probably not.
Right. But then, with 3 nodes, there would be only 3 confirmations for a transaction, correct?

No. A block is a confirmation, not a node. A transaction does not have a set number of confirmations, in fact they'll go on adding "confirmations" forever.

But if you don't have enough nodes than those left can manipulate easily. Transactions could easily be blocked, and even reversed if conditions are perfect. Confirmations would be worth less on a chain with only three active nodes, compared to say one confirmation on a chain with thousands of nodes.

A node is not a miner, but a miner has to be connected through a node. The node decides which transactions are included in the blocks the miner attached to the node is trying to solve. Only one miner per node AFAIK. Pools are different, they act as one miner.

 

Please DO NOT send me private messages asking for help setting up GPU miners. I will not respond!!!
yogi
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 947
Merit: 1021


Hamster ate my bitcoin


View Profile
December 10, 2013, 08:25:11 PM
 #7

When there are too few nodes bitcoin becomes susceptible to a low level network attack.

Ok. And that depends on the number of miners among the 3 nodes, or it wouldn't matter?

No, attacker just needs to be able to create enough attack nodes to disrupt the rest of the network.

pontiacg5
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 364
Merit: 250



View Profile
December 10, 2013, 08:28:33 PM
 #8

When there are too few nodes bitcoin becomes susceptible to a low level network attack.

Ok. And that depends on the number of miners among the 3 nodes, or it wouldn't matter?

No, attacker just needs to be able to create enough attack nodes to disrupt the rest of the network.

No, the attacker not only has to come up with attack nodes but has to match or best the hashing power of the legitimate nodes still on the network. Until that point the most they can do is delay transactions, and waste their own money making invalid blocks...

 

Please DO NOT send me private messages asking for help setting up GPU miners. I will not respond!!!
yogi
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 947
Merit: 1021


Hamster ate my bitcoin


View Profile
December 10, 2013, 08:33:33 PM
 #9

When there are too few nodes bitcoin becomes susceptible to a low level network attack.

Ok. And that depends on the number of miners among the 3 nodes, or it wouldn't matter?

No, attacker just needs to be able to create enough attack nodes to disrupt the rest of the network.

No, the attacker not only has to come up with attack nodes but has to match or best the hashing power of the legitimate nodes still on the network. Until that point the most they can do is delay transactions, and waste their own money making invalid blocks...

Yes, I know. This attack is about gaining control of the network, not the blockchain.

natd
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


View Profile
December 10, 2013, 08:44:47 PM
 #10

 I see. I was under the impression that each client was a node, but I'm confused. So confirmations have to come from miners nodes only, correct?

In search of light in cryptocurrency.
yogi
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 947
Merit: 1021


Hamster ate my bitcoin


View Profile
December 10, 2013, 08:49:16 PM
 #11

I see. I was under the impression that each client was a node, but I'm confused. So confirmatios have to come from miners nodes only, correct?

The number of confirmations is the depth of the block containing your transaction in the blockchain. When you send a transaction it has '0' confirmation as it isn't contained in a block yet. When it's in a block it has one confirmation. When another block is found, on top of that one, then your transaction has two confirmations. etc.
 

natd
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


View Profile
December 10, 2013, 08:52:37 PM
 #12

I see. I was under the impression that each client was a node, but I'm confused. So confirmatios have to come from miners nodes only, correct?

The number of confirmations is the depth of the block containing your transaction in the blockchain. When you send a transaction it has '0' confirmation as it isn't contained in a block yet. When it's in a block it has one confirmation. When another block is found, on top of that one, then your transaction has three confirmations. etc.
 

Oh, ok. So it would need 5 new blocks found by 5 different miners in order for a transaction to have 5 confirmations?

In search of light in cryptocurrency.
natd
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


View Profile
December 10, 2013, 08:55:20 PM
 #13

I see. I was under the impression that each client was a node, but I'm confused. So confirmatios have to come from miners nodes only, correct?

The number of confirmations is the depth of the block containing your transaction in the blockchain. When you send a transaction it has '0' confirmation as it isn't contained in a block yet. When it's in a block it has one confirmation. When another block is found, on top of that one, then your transaction has three confirmations. etc.
 

Oh, ok. So it would need 5 new blocks found by 5 different miners in order for a transaction to have 5 confirmations?

Actually it could be the same miner finding new blocks, right?

In search of light in cryptocurrency.
jbis1
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 50
Merit: 0



View Profile
December 10, 2013, 08:58:55 PM
 #14

I see. I was under the impression that each client was a node, but I'm confused. So confirmatios have to come from miners nodes only, correct?

The number of confirmations is the depth of the block containing your transaction in the blockchain. When you send a transaction it has '0' confirmation as it isn't contained in a block yet. When it's in a block it has one confirmation. When another block is found, on top of that one, then your transaction has three confirmations. etc.
 

Oh, ok. So it would need 5 new blocks found by 5 different miners in order for a transaction to have 5 confirmations?

Actually it could be the same miner finding new blocks, right?

It could be the same or new miners. Every new block counts regardless of who mined it.
yogi
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 947
Merit: 1021


Hamster ate my bitcoin


View Profile
December 10, 2013, 09:04:13 PM
 #15

I see. I was under the impression that each client was a node, but I'm confused. So confirmatios have to come from miners nodes only, correct?

The number of confirmations is the depth of the block containing your transaction in the blockchain. When you send a transaction it has '0' confirmation as it isn't contained in a block yet. When it's in a block it has one confirmation. When another block is found, on top of that one, then your transaction has three confirmations. etc.
 

Oh, ok. So it would need 5 new blocks found by 5 different miners in order for a transaction to have 5 confirmations?

Essentially yes but..

1) As pointed out, the blocks could be found by the same miner.

2) Some blocks may be orphaned.

natd
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


View Profile
December 10, 2013, 09:05:12 PM
 #16

Thanks.
So, if I understand correctly now, an attacker would have to overcome the hash power of the current miner(s)?

In search of light in cryptocurrency.
natd
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


View Profile
December 10, 2013, 09:17:51 PM
 #17

 I'm just trying to figure it out what would be the minimum arrangement that the protocol would work securely.

In search of light in cryptocurrency.
yogi
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 947
Merit: 1021


Hamster ate my bitcoin


View Profile
December 10, 2013, 09:19:12 PM
 #18

Thanks.
So, if I understand correctly now, an attacker would have to overcome the hash power of the current miner(s)?

What you are referring to is called a 51% attack. It's one among a number of different attack strategies, see;

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses

A 51% attack has to do with total hashing power and not the overall number of nodes on the network.

doof
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 765
Merit: 501


View Profile WWW
December 11, 2013, 01:56:09 AM
 #19

I have a lot of "free" hours on Azure.  I run some wallets on some VMs in different geo-locations as "honest nodes".

My little contribution.
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!