The Trust System on Bitcointalk SUCKS ! here is why !

[mikeywith]

so i realized that most people do not put reviews on OBVIOUS scams and i was wondering why !. so i got the answer !.


so who doesn't know a scammer that goes by the name " etherPIC" ? i think everybody who visits the market place knows this guy.

so i warned people about him on his own thread, and what he did was giving me a negative review so that people won't trust my words on him.

so now I ended up with a negative review on my profile and just now a Newbie who just joined the forum ( 1 post ) refused to sell me a 10$ worth of bitmain coupon and now i have to use escrow that costs way more than the coupon itself lol.


so ya that's what i get for trying to warn people about scammers on this forum!!

I am not by any means against using escrow, but really for a 10$ payment i have to go through escrow , the time and the fees are not worth it.

it's also not logical for me to trust a member who joined today. it makes more sense for him to trust me instead of me trusting him. but when he sees a negative review on me like that ,he has the right to freak out lol.

I made almost 1000$ worth of transactions since i joined with high rank members, i went first and things were smooth.

so what i am going to do from now on, i won't give a f*** about warning anybody about any scams so that my trust page doesn't get all kinda RED NEGATIVE REVIEWS


I am also probably going to delete this thread which i was working on collect a list of all scams on the forum to protect the newbies from falling from them > https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3486346.msg36123932#msg36123932

so long live the scam artists

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[actmyname]

It's untrusted feedback. Do you want moderators to pore over feedback sent, regardless of who sent it? That would be a huge waste of time and would certainly compromise the staff's time.

A minority of users will truly care about the untrusted feedback and it's unfortunate: you'll lose business that way. But most don't even check trust ratings, never mind the untrusted feedback.It would be in the best interests of most people if you would continue reporting scams as they come. Some scammers may leave retaliatory feedback. Just don't worry about it. It'll change about 2% of sales.

If it truly did anything significant, then a lot of active DT members would be in trouble. Just take a look at my trust page for example.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Jesus, relax dude.  I don't know anything about this guy, never heard of him.  

If you're upset that someone wants to use escrow, you might want to rethink that--he's right in wanting to, regardless of the amount.  That's what everyone here recommends.  Look at my trust page and see how many negs I've gotten that are without reference threads.  Do I get upset?  Absolutely not.  The trust that this guy left you is that he thinks your account was hacked based on a password reset, and that's valid.  I'm not saying his feedback is valid, but the concern is.  Just suck it the fuck up and use escrow if you want to get a deal done instead of making threads like this.

I think i did clearly mention that my issue here is not using escrow.

You did.  So use it.  Also, you're a Jr. Member who registered last month.  You're bitching about the trust system because....?

also by the look at your sent feedback you do seem pretty mad at people giving you untrusted feedback

No, they're mad at me for leaving them feedback.  99% of the time I leave reference links when I leave feedback.

[mikeywith]

It's untrusted feedback. Do you want moderators to pore over feedback sent, regardless of who sent it? That would be a huge waste of time and would certainly compromise the staff's time.

A minority of users will truly care about the untrusted feedback and it's unfortunate: you'll lose business that way. But most don't even check trust ratings, never mind the untrusted feedback.It would be in the best interests of most people if you would continue reporting scams as they come. Some scammers may leave retaliatory feedback. Just don't worry about it. It'll change about 2% of sales.

If it truly did anything significant, then a lot of active DT members would be in trouble. Just take a look at my trust page for example.

when a Newbie who joined a few hours ago checked my untrusted feedback it only makes sense that a lot of people care about it.

but anyway good thing you pointed me to untrusted feedback part ! would you be so kind and explain WHO can give a trusted feedback and who can't.

thanks

[mikeywith]

Jesus, relax dude.  I don't know anything about this guy, never heard of him.  

If you're upset that someone wants to use escrow, you might want to rethink that--he's right in wanting to, regardless of the amount.  That's what everyone here recommends.  Look at my trust page and see how many negs I've gotten that are without reference threads.  Do I get upset?  Absolutely not.  The trust that this guy left you is that he thinks your account was hacked based on a password reset, and that's valid.  I'm not saying his feedback is valid, but the concern is.  Just suck it the fuck up and use escrow if you want to get a deal done instead of making threads like this.

I think i did clearly mention that my issue here is not using escrow. I traded well over 1000$ in a few days here " i can show you a proof".  the point here is , the guy was willing to go first, till he saw the negative review which i got from a well known scam " your problem if you do not know him"

plus the discussion here is about the trust system , not about me getting my deal done. my business is my business you should not worry about it, you worry about your own shit. Thanks  


also by the look at your sent feedback you do seem pretty mad at people giving you untrusted feedback just like me, you see it's a human nature so do not pretend like you are any better than anybody else ! .

[actmyname]

when a Newbie who joined a few hours ago checked my untrusted feedback it only makes sense that a lot of people care about it.

but anyway good thing you pointed me to untrusted feedback part ! would you be so kind and explain WHO can give a trusted feedback and who can't.

thanks

Trusted feedback is based on a user's trust list. This is usually set to DefaultTrust. I have an in-depth explanation from a previous post of mine (this is in regards to trust depth but is relevant):

This belongs in Meta.

For the purposes of explanation, trusting someone simply means that you carry their feedback in the "trusted" section.

Depth is the degree of which you recursively trust those in your trust list and those that are in the trust lists of people that you trust.

For example:
Depth 0 means that you only trust people who you add to your trust list.
Depth 1 means that you trust people who are in your trust lists, and in the trust lists of people you added to your trust list.
Depth 2 means that now additionally, the people in the depth 1 lists are trusted by you.
Depth n means that you trust the people in the depth n-1 lists.

An illustrative example:

This symbol: -> means adding someone to the trust list.

You -> A
A -> B
A -> C
B -> D
B -> E

Depth 0:

A is trusted.

Depth 1:

A is trusted, B and C are trusted.

Depth 2:

A is trusted, B and C are trusted, D and E are trusted.If you're familiar with CS terminology, think of it as a tree with nodes, where parents add children to their trust list.

You can find your trust settings in any trust page and configure your trust list as you like. This will allow you to include and exclude others in your depth 0 trust tree.

[mikeywith]

when a Newbie who joined a few hours ago checked my untrusted feedback it only makes sense that a lot of people care about it.

but anyway good thing you pointed me to untrusted feedback part ! would you be so kind and explain WHO can give a trusted feedback and who can't.

thanks

Trusted feedback is based on a user's trust list. This is usually set to DefaultTrust. I have an in-depth explanation from a previous post of mine (this is in regards to trust depth but is relevant):

This belongs in Meta.

For the purposes of explanation, trusting someone simply means that you carry their feedback in the "trusted" section.

Depth is the degree of which you recursively trust those in your trust list and those that are in the trust lists of people that you trust.

For example:
Depth 0 means that you only trust people who you add to your trust list.
Depth 1 means that you trust people who are in your trust lists, and in the trust lists of people you added to your trust list.
Depth 2 means that now additionally, the people in the depth 1 lists are trusted by you.
Depth n means that you trust the people in the depth n-1 lists.

An illustrative example:

This symbol: -> means adding someone to the trust list.

You -> A
A -> B
A -> C
B -> D
B -> E

Depth 0:

A is trusted.

Depth 1:

A is trusted, B and C are trusted.

Depth 2:

A is trusted, B and C are trusted, D and E are trusted.If you're familiar with CS terminology, think of it as a tree with nodes, where parents add children to their trust list.

You can find your trust settings in any trust page and configure your trust list as you like. This will allow you to include and exclude others in your depth 0 trust tree.

Amazing , very nice explanation.thank you so much for the explanation. you are very nice and polite thanks again.

[Thirdspace]

so now I ended up with a negative review on my profile and just now a Newbie who just joined the forum ( 1 post ) refused to sell me a 10$ worth of bitmain coupon and now i have to use escrow that costs way more than the coupon itself lol.

a newbie seller asked for an escrow on a $10 trade? which one of you will be trusted more?
why would he need an escrow if you send him $10 first, unless you want him to give you the voucher first
just ignore that untrusted feedback. it makes a dent but doesn't ruin your overall trust ratings
move on, find someone else who will sell you a voucher without escrow (I assume you are willing to go first)

I made almost 1000$ worth of transactions since i joined with high rank members, i went first and things were smooth.

too bad, none of them left positive feedbacks on your trust page
you can do the same thing with your $10 voucher trade, you can go first by sending him the money
if your concern is his newbie rank, then find higher rank member that you can trust who can sell you the same voucher

[coin5haker]

If you leaving a negative trust, expect a "trust war" started. This is inevitable and just human nature. But those trust doesn't mean a shit if you're not tagged by DT. Yours's still 0 until I click on it. Good idea is to report to DT instead, which is more productive as anyone could see "red trust" right on scammer's profile. I'm doing reporting and leaving positive one to members I like. Think I'm coward, I don't care  .

[Jet Cash]

The trust system seems to have become a reputation system, and it contains a lot of subjective opinions, and retaliatory negative comments, Ideally, it should be a report on successful trades, and include a value for the trade. However, maybe we also need a reputation rating as well. I can think of a number of forcefully critical posters that I would trust with a cash trade. You can also get negatives for reporting account and merit trades, and I believe that they should be banned, and not create the possibility of red paint on good forum members.

I'll go out on a limb here, and give TMAN as an example. He has got several red comments relating to his board posting, and I agree that some of his comments can be direct and less than diplomatic, but that seems to be what some posters need and deserve. When it comes to a cash trade, then I would trust him with a $1,000 trade without thinking about it. Maybe it is time to have a trading trust system, and a requirement to include a trade value in the report.

[TMAN]

The trust system seems to have become a reputation system, and it contains a lot of subjective opinions, and retaliatory negative comments, Ideally, it should be a report on successful trades, and include a value for the trade. However, maybe we also need a reputation rating as well. I can think of a number of forcefully critical posters that I would trust with a cash trade. You can also get negatives for reporting account and merit trades, and I believe that they should be banned, and not create the possibility of red paint on good forum members.

I'll go out on a limb here, and give TMAN as an example. He has got several red comments relating to his board posting, and I agree that some of his comments can be direct and less than diplomatic, but that seems to be what some posters need and deserve. When it comes to a cash trade, then I would trust him with a $1,000 trade without thinking about it. Maybe it is time to have a trading trust system, and a requirement to include a trade value in the report.

Thanks bud, even Theymos agrees that the trust system has issues. Certain posters do not trust me, so what? it wont affect me doing business or people trusting me if they already do.

[hilariousetc]

You're a Junior Member so somebody would have to be pretty naive to trust you or any other Junior or lower ranked member without using an escrow in the first place. The trust system is there as a guide and should be used by people to help gauge a user and probably worked well in this case as you certainly shouldn't be blindly trusted just because a Junior trumps a Newbie. Why not get the buyer to pay the fees or split the costs with them? I'm sure there are free escrow agents as well.

[snapee11]

The trust system seems to have become a reputation system, and it contains a lot of subjective opinions, and retaliatory negative comments, Ideally, it should be a report on successful trades, and include a value for the trade. However, maybe we also need a reputation rating as well. I can think of a number of forcefully critical posters that I would trust with a cash trade. You can also get negatives for reporting account and merit trades, and I believe that they should be banned, and not create the possibility of red paint on good forum members.

I'll go out on a limb here, and give TMAN as an example. He has got several red comments relating to his board posting, and I agree that some of his comments can be direct and less than diplomatic, but that seems to be what some posters need and deserve. When it comes to a cash trade, then I would trust him with a $1,000 trade without thinking about it. Maybe it is time to have a trading trust system, and a requirement to include a trade value in the report.

Thanks bud, even Theymos agrees that the trust system has issues. Certain posters do not trust me, so what? it wont affect me doing business or people trusting me if they already do.

Somehow this trust thing seems required on some signature bounties which is a huge profit for bounty hunters

[escrow.ms]

Isn't whole bitcointalk is fucked up?
Blackmailers are on Default trust, Admins who don't listen to you and are busy in making money from ad's, moderators who don't give a fuck, members who are spamming everywhere.
This forum is filled with filth, power and greed.

[mikeywith]

so now I ended up with a negative review on my profile and just now a Newbie who just joined the forum ( 1 post ) refused to sell me a 10$ worth of bitmain coupon and now i have to use escrow that costs way more than the coupon itself lol.

a newbie seller asked for an escrow on a $10 trade? which one of you will be trusted more?
why would he need an escrow if you send him $10 first, unless you want him to give you the voucher first
just ignore that untrusted feedback. it makes a dent but doesn't ruin your overall trust ratings
move on, find someone else who will sell you a voucher without escrow (I assume you are willing to go first)

I made almost 1000$ worth of transactions since i joined with high rank members, i went first and things were smooth.

too bad, none of them left positive feedbacks on your trust page
you can do the same thing with your $10 voucher trade, you can go first by sending him the money
if your concern is his newbie rank, then find higher rank member that you can trust who can sell you the same voucher

definitely i wasn't going to go first , that was his first post ! . comon sense says he should go first or escrow !. i went first through out all the transactions i had so far because the sellers/buyers had a higher rank and only positive feedback.

this guy said he would go first and then changed his mind after seeing the negative feedback, so he changed his mind and went like " it's either you go first or escrow"

looking at the escrow system you can tell that it's not really worth it to go for escrow on a 10$ trade !! i rather just risk those 10$ instead!
------------------

that's another issue here, people are too lazy to give positive feed back. they get their money/product and leave. so i won't be begging for positive feed back !
..............

my concern here is not the 10$ voucher, it's nothing ! . i only talked about my story to give an example of the whole idea.
now i will have to think twice before leaving a negative review on a scammer profile !. and ya who cares about my review? but i would only think that most people are/will doing the same.

look at the comment below yours from "coin5haker" he is openly admitting that he is scared of leaving negative reviews for the same reason i talk about .



 
 

[Flash Cunt]

that's another issue here, people are too lazy to give positive feed back. they get their money/product and leave. so i won't be begging for positive feed back !

 

It's not laziness, the pooposters don't want to give positive trust unless you pay them with merits.

[mikeywith]

The trust system seems to have become a reputation system, and it contains a lot of subjective opinions, and retaliatory negative comments, Ideally, it should be a report on successful trades, and include a value for the trade. However, maybe we also need a reputation rating as well. I can think of a number of forcefully critical posters that I would trust with a cash trade. You can also get negatives for reporting account and merit trades, and I believe that they should be banned, and not create the possibility of red paint on good forum members.

I'll go out on a limb here, and give TMAN as an example. He has got several red comments relating to his board posting, and I agree that some of his comments can be direct and less than diplomatic, but that seems to be what some posters need and deserve. When it comes to a cash trade, then I would trust him with a $1,000 trade without thinking about it. Maybe it is time to have a trading trust system, and a requirement to include a trade value in the report.

this is a great example. you have been here long enough to deal/talk/know with TMAN. so you do not give a fudge about the negative reviews because you do understand that this whole negative review attack is based on say " his  behavior" or " harsh words" yet when it comes to money you know he is a trust worthy ! so TMAN is not really affected by all this for members who have been here a while !

people like me on the other hand , i joined this forum less than a month ago ! . TMAN wants to sell something ! , i click on his trust page and i be like WTF !! . i will run away that's for sure, coz i dunno who the hell is this guy and why would he get all those bad reviews.

it's a human nature! people usually run away from sellers/buyers with negative reviews.

thanks for passing by ..

-----------------------

You're a Junior Member so somebody would have to be pretty naive to trust you or any other Junior or lower ranked member without using an escrow in the first place. The trust system is there as a guide and should be used by people to help gauge a user and probably worked well in this case as you certainly shouldn't be blindly trusted just because a Junior trumps a Newbie. Why not get the buyer to pay the fees or split the costs with them? I'm sure there are free escrow agents as well.

we are not here to discus "ME" , f**k me and my 10$ voucher :d. we talking about this whole trust system.

even a hero or legendary member would want to avoid keeping negative reviews so that he doesn't get them back so he can keep is profit RED-LESS.

here is the main point of discussion.

escrow is great ! but nobody does it for free, and nobody should because it's a hard work. for small amount transaction escrow is not the best thing! ,some escrow guys require min of about 50-60$ for their service.

i rather risk the 10$ !!, that's why the trust system should be modified to have some sort of better quality indicator than this " you hit me , i hit you back" bullshit.

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If you leaving a negative trust, expect a "trust war" started. This is inevitable and just human nature. But those trust doesn't mean a shit if you're not tagged by DT. Yours's still 0 until I click on it. Good idea is to report to DT instead, which is more productive as anyone could see "red trust" right on scammer's profile. I'm doing reporting and leaving positive one to members I like. Think I'm coward, I don't care  .

this is  EXACTLY what this post is all about. coin5haker i know deep inside you want to leave all kinda negative reviews to help others know, yet to chose to run away. and i honestly can not blame you for this, nobody can or should

Isn't whole bitcointalk is fucked up?
Blackmailers are on Default trust, Admins who don't listen to you and are busy in making money from ad's, moderators who don't give a fuck, members who are spamming everywhere.
This forum is filled with filth, power and greed.

I think this place is only good for sharing knowledge, reading about new projects, disusing a hardware / software problem.
basically anything except for SELLING/BUYING.

it's only a matter of time for scammers to be left alone here trying to scam one another lol

[mikeywith]

that's another issue here, people are too lazy to give positive feed back. they get their money/product and leave. so i won't be begging for positive feed back !

 

It's not laziness, the pooposters don't want to give positive trust unless you pay them with merits.

you could be 100% correct.

but please explain to me, how do you know all this ? you just joined this forum like 3 hours ago !.
also you got 2 merits in like no time !.


so does this mean the merit system sucks as much as the trust system does ?

[mikeywith]

The trust system seems to have become a reputation system, and it contains a lot of subjective opinions, and retaliatory negative comments, Ideally, it should be a report on successful trades, and include a value for the trade. However, maybe we also need a reputation rating as well. I can think of a number of forcefully critical posters that I would trust with a cash trade. You can also get negatives for reporting account and merit trades, and I believe that they should be banned, and not create the possibility of red paint on good forum members.

I'll go out on a limb here, and give TMAN as an example. He has got several red comments relating to his board posting, and I agree that some of his comments can be direct and less than diplomatic, but that seems to be what some posters need and deserve. When it comes to a cash trade, then I would trust him with a $1,000 trade without thinking about it. Maybe it is time to have a trading trust system, and a requirement to include a trade value in the report.

Thanks bud, even Theymos agrees that the trust system has issues. Certain posters do not trust me, so what? it wont affect me doing business or people trusting me if they already do.

Your are screwing the merit system too by sending random merits

[Flash Cunt]

but please explain to me, how do you know all this ? you just joined this forum like 3 hours ago !.
also you got 2 merits in like no time !.

What's a merit?

Are there any posts about it?