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Author Topic: Why is reference to "bitcointalk.org" triggering a filter in Wikipedia?  (Read 253 times)
alani123
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May 10, 2018, 10:41:09 AM
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 #1

It seems as though bitcointalk is banned in wikipedia. Why is that?

It can't be added as a reference or otherwise linked. Edits with that won't go through.
Bitcointalk is a forum where significant announcements were made. Having it banned in wikipedia is quite unreasonable.

I believe that we should do something to change that. Anyone here with knowledge over how Wikipedia works that could provide advice on if there's something to be done?

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May 10, 2018, 10:53:34 AM
 #2

What were you trying to edit? Maybe web discussion forums aren't counted valid sources? Anyone could edit their post at any time. I would take it up with wikipedia if you find it unreasonable.

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May 10, 2018, 12:26:29 PM
 #3

First, wikipedia is not a trusted source for reference coz anyone can edit information so don't take wiki information too seriously.
2nd, we are well off without wiki, wiki is for old school pops  Grin


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May 10, 2018, 12:39:58 PM
 #4

Bitcointalk.org is banned WITHIN Wikipedia. If you try to add a link to the forum as reference when editing any article a message will pop-up saying it's banned. I'll add an image to the OP to make it more clear.
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May 10, 2018, 01:14:21 PM
 #5

Bitcointalk.org is banned WITHIN Wikipedia. If you try to add a link to the forum as reference when editing any article a message will pop-up saying it's banned. I'll add an image to the OP to make it more clear.

I don't know if this could lead to a ban or not in Wikipedia but if it could be tested and removed after, could you try to put a mirror link for bitcointalk.org (bitcointa.lk for example?) and check if it isn't allowed too? or you can check any other forums or even reddit.com/r/bitcoin.

Edit : i am aware that mirrors are phishing sites, what i meant is to see if only bitcointalk.org is blocked or every crypto forums (mirrors or even forum.bitcoin dot com) ofc before seeing the blacklist.



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May 10, 2018, 01:19:44 PM
 #6

Bitcointalk.org is banned WITHIN Wikipedia.
The answer can be found on Wikipedia's Spam blacklist:
Code:
# This is a list of domain names which are blocked - nobody can add new links to these domains
# Guidelines:
#    - Only blacklist for widespread, unmanageable spam.
Considering the large amount of unmanageable spam on Bitcointalk, I can imagine Wikipedia articles have been spammed with links to this forum too.

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May 10, 2018, 01:56:58 PM
 #7

The good thing about this is Bitcointalk can be removed from the blacklist of Wikipedia as stated in their Blocked External Links page. And if you really want to add Bitcointalk as a source for your edits you must follow this steps as stated in the article, but I do think that a forum admin or moderator has more weight on the request based on the Bold text below.
Quote
Request that a site be removed from the blocked list entirely
If the site is on the meta blocked list, you must make your request at m:talk:Spam blacklist. Requests here will be summarily closed.

If the site is on the local blocked external links list, then add your request here. Please provide the following details:

1. The web address of the site you would like removed from the list (omit the http and www parts)
2. The reason(s) why links to the site should be allowed, and would benefit Wikipedia
3. The article or articles on which the links would be used
4. If you are connected to the site, then please declare this at this point. Failure to do so will, if discovered, be treated negatively.

Also in my opinion I do think that Bitcointalk is blacklisted as it is a forum site (a lot of forum sites are listed on the blacklist of wikipedia) and forum sites tend to have a lot of spam as well as unreliable sources that can't be used as sources (at least that is how Wikipedia views it). Just like why wikipedia is blocking off many blogspot sites as their information tends to be unreliable and is not worthy to become a source.

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May 10, 2018, 02:05:37 PM
 #8

this is indeed an interesting find. i cant understand why this forum is "blocked". but there is a wiki page about the forum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcointalk

the content could be improved. its not much.

and there is a link to this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5.msg28#msg28

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May 10, 2018, 04:10:17 PM
 #9

There was probably hundreds of shitcoins trying to add themselves wiki pages and using the ANN threads posted on this forum as a source. Or, as above, discussion forums just aren't a valid source.

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May 10, 2018, 04:27:36 PM
 #10

Bitcointalk.org is banned WITHIN Wikipedia. If you try to add a link to the forum as reference when editing any article a message will pop-up saying it's banned. I'll add an image to the OP to make it more clear.

I don't know if this could lead to a ban or not in Wikipedia but if it could be tested and removed after, could you try to put a mirror link for bitcointalk.org (bitcointa.lk for example?) and check if it isn't allowed too? or you can check any other forums or even reddit.com/r/bitcoin.
What I tried to do was use an archive.org page for bitcointalk.org and it was also not allowed. I assume because of containing "bitcointalk.org" in the URL.
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May 10, 2018, 05:35:12 PM
 #11

What I tried to do was use an archive.org page for bitcointalk.org and it was also not allowed. I assume because of containing "bitcointalk.org" in the URL.
Try to use archive.is (there won't be any mention to bitcointalk in the URL).

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May 10, 2018, 05:40:49 PM
 #12

What I tried to do was use an archive.org page for bitcointalk.org and it was also not allowed. I assume because of containing "bitcointalk.org" in the URL.
Try to use archive.is (there won't be any mention to bitcointalk in the URL).
That would still be against the rules.
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May 10, 2018, 05:54:59 PM
 #13

That's weird because I can't find "bitcointalk.org" at the Wikipedia's 2007-2016, 2017 or 2018 Spam Blacklist.

And one of the steps to ask for a review is to check the reason why it got blacklisted.



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May 10, 2018, 06:06:01 PM
 #14

That's weird because I can't find "bitcointalk.org" at the Wikipedia's 2007-2016, 2017 or 2018 Spam Blacklist.

And one of the steps to ask for a review is to check the reason why it got blacklisted.
I couldn't find it also, which is very weird indeed.

At first I got to think that it might have been my fault for not knowing much about WikiPedia's backend.
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May 10, 2018, 06:11:42 PM
 #15

funny how wikipedia considers bitcointalk a spamming site
while it doesn't hesitate to inundate you with donation requests:



never trusted it as a source of information,anyone can edit it and it has been politically biased on so many cases I cannot count

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May 10, 2018, 09:02:55 PM
 #16

This is the first I've heard of it. It seems inappropriate, since bitcointalk.org is the best source for several important things. hilariousandco's theory sounds plausible.

I'd appreciate it if someone would appeal it. Wikipedia is the ultimate bureaucracy, with arcane rules and endless layers of appeals for everything. There's probably some "Request for unblacklisting" process, and if that fails, there will be appeals above that.

Please do not use any "mirror" sites (other than general mirror sites like archive.is), since there are no official mirrors, and the existing ones are likely to be phishing sites in disguise.

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May 11, 2018, 02:16:35 PM
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 #17

Welp, I tried...



The request was declined. The suggestions is saying that in essence if anyone wants to add reference to bitcointalk in any article he'd have to request specific white-listing for that article.

I've seen discussion in the whitelist page but I don't know if there'd be any point trying to bring up counter-arguments to the decision. From what I understand, the pages for blacklist removal requests are archived on a monthly basis. Perhaps someone with an account having more prestigious edit history could try next month.

Personally, I don't think the reason given for declining is good. I haven't seen instances of bitcointalk being spammed/abused on wikipedia and the fact that it's a forum doesn't mean it's a de facto bad source... Requiring a request for white-listing every time one'd want to add a reference could deter many editors from adding valuable information in the first place, but it seems like that's willing to be discounted for any potential spam.
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May 11, 2018, 02:44:35 PM
 #18

I haven't seen instances of bitcointalk being spammed/abused on wikipedia and the fact that it's a forum doesn't mean it's a de facto bad source...

I'd be willing to bet the spamming/abuse was by people submitting their crapcoins and various other scams for pages only citing this forum as a source. Also, this forum probably doesn't count as an acceptable source just like wikipedia usually can't be used as a valid source for writing articles/essays etc. This is why we can't have nice things.

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May 11, 2018, 03:59:17 PM
 #19

That's weird because I can't find "bitcointalk.org" at the Wikipedia's 2007-2016, 2017 or 2018 Spam Blacklist.

And one of the steps to ask for a review is to check the reason why it got blacklisted.



I checked last night and it looks like the bitcointalk.org domain was banned in early 2016 and about 700 links were submitted as of the banning.

I know that Greg maxwell has had runins with the Wikipedia admins in the past, including them describing him harshly, I forget what exactly they said, but there was an incident in which he apparently used multiple sock puppets to make edits to Wikipedia pages after he was banned personally from making edits. Maybe this is somewhat related.

The forum really is not an appropriate source for Wikipedia articles anyway, so anything that is backed up by a forum post should probably be edited out even if there was no ban.

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May 11, 2018, 05:24:46 PM
 #20

Welp, I tried...

Thanks for trying.

I think that if one was persistent enough, the blacklisting could probably be overturned. But I don't have time for that.

I know that Greg maxwell has had runins with the Wikipedia admins in the past

Greg was (maybe still is) a Wikipedia admin. He has good relations with them.

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