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Author Topic: Stop Coddling the Super-Rich: Warren Buffett  (Read 5506 times)
JeffK
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August 17, 2011, 05:22:46 AM
 #81

Ah yes, and if you can't afford a private security firm? Even better, if you can't afford one and the guy who wants to rob you can? Taken to its logical extent, we'd have companies with full mercenary armies going to war with each other all the time.

War costs. Peace doesn't. The companies that go to war with each other will be out-competed by the ones that don't.

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And how would any of this be different under libertarianism anyway? You still have workers, you still have a society.

It's the difference between seduction and rape.

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Mutually beneficial doesn't mean fair or moral or non-coercive. If I'm dying of thirst in the desert and you sell me a glass of water for $10 million, I guess you could say that's beneficial for me in that I get to stay alive, but it doesn't mean you didn't just rip me off.

It's not our job to enforce morality on each other with violence. We shun people that do things like that but we don't hold a gun to their head and tell them to stop. That's why we don't lock people up for cheating on their partner or calling their grandmother a cunt.

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It also ignores the fact that what may seem beneficial at the outset to one party may be just the opposite in reality. But I guess that's the fault of the person who got screwed, right? Should have been more of a rational actor?

I didn't ignore it at all, that's why I specifically said "All free trades are mutually beneficial before the trade takes place." If you change your mind, decide you don't like the color, the flavor or whatever, you're goddamned right that's your fault. Next time, be more careful. As long as there was no fraud involved, it's definitely your fault.


Hahaha, you live in a fucking bizarre fantasy world that never takes actual human nature into account. This quote is exactly the best way to describe your beliefs:

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I'm still being extremely negative and critical and I know that to use these dupes as examples of libertarianism is painting with wide brushes, for sure, but it all seems like you could use all this as an example by which you could define libertarianism as akin to a type of political aspergers, where instead of being essentially tone-deaf to facial expressions, you're unable to process political, economic, social, and environmental externalities.
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hugolp
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August 17, 2011, 07:19:50 AM
 #82

Hahaha, you live in a fucking bizarre fantasy world that never takes actual human nature into account. This quote is exactly the best way to describe your beliefs:

I keep asking why do you come to this community to insult people. Have you tried using reason instead of dealing with politics as black and white and insults to people?
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August 17, 2011, 07:22:00 AM
 #83

I propose a debate about economics to FlipPro (and anyone else). You and me only, no "OMG LOL You are diluded WTF", speaking like adults, replying honestly to what the other person is saying, not cheapshots, etc...

If you accept well open a new thread and will debate.
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August 17, 2011, 07:24:21 AM
 #84

I propose a debate about economics to FlipPro (and anyone else). You and me only, no "OMG LOL You are diluded WTF", speaking like adults, replying honestly to what the other person is saying, not cheapshots, etc...

If you accept well open a new thread and will debate.
I will debate you on all political matters and common sense social issues, but not via text. I will only do it if we can go head to head live via video with a fair moderator.

I'm serious.

edit: And yes Jeffk is a troll, even though he has valid points at times, it's important that we not forget who he is. I do admire the fact that he has kept his name even though everyone knows that he is from the SA forum, and here to just bug the hell out of people. Either way maybe he's changed but regardless he doesn't seem to like dealing with nonsense the same way I do.

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The Script
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August 17, 2011, 07:27:41 AM
 #85

Hahaha, you live in a fucking bizarre fantasy world that never takes actual human nature into account. This quote is exactly the best way to describe your beliefs:

I keep asking why do you come to this community to insult people. Have you tried using reason instead of dealing with politics as black and white and insults to people?

Little dicks?  Ugly wives and loud children?



Kidding, kidding.  A debate would be cool.
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August 17, 2011, 07:29:57 AM
 #86

I propose a debate about economics to FlipPro (and anyone else). You and me only, no "OMG LOL You are diluded WTF", speaking like adults, replying honestly to what the other person is saying, not cheapshots, etc...

If you accept well open a new thread and will debate.
I will debate you on all political matters and common sense social issues, but not via text. I will only do it if we can go head to head live via video with a fair moderator.

I'm serious.

edit: And yes Jeffk is a troll, even though he has valid points at times, it's important that we not forget who he is. I do admire the fact that he has kept his name even though everyone knows that he is from the SA forum, and here to just bug the hell out of people. Either way maybe he's changed but regardless he doesn't seem to like dealing with nonsense the same way I do.

Why not a debate through text, any specific reason?  It seems like it will be easier for people to follow a text debate.
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August 17, 2011, 07:33:55 AM
 #87

I propose a debate about economics to FlipPro (and anyone else). You and me only, no "OMG LOL You are diluded WTF", speaking like adults, replying honestly to what the other person is saying, not cheapshots, etc...

If you accept well open a new thread and will debate.
I will debate you on all political matters and common sense social issues, but not via text. I will only do it if we can go head to head live via video with a fair moderator.

I'm serious.

edit: And yes Jeffk is a troll, even though he has valid points at times, it's important that we not forget who he is. I do admire the fact that he has kept his name even though everyone knows that he is from the SA forum, and here to just bug the hell out of people. Either way maybe he's changed but regardless he doesn't seem to like dealing with nonsense the same way I do.

The problem with this is that I am not american and english is not my first language. I would have problems debating you live in english. Why not do it in text? Whats the problem? You seem to have no problem writing here.

Ill let you choose the topic in economics you want to debate about.
FlipPro
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August 17, 2011, 07:38:54 AM
 #88

I propose a debate about economics to FlipPro (and anyone else). You and me only, no "OMG LOL You are diluded WTF", speaking like adults, replying honestly to what the other person is saying, not cheapshots, etc...

If you accept well open a new thread and will debate.
I will debate you on all political matters and common sense social issues, but not via text. I will only do it if we can go head to head live via video with a fair moderator.

I'm serious.

edit: And yes Jeffk is a troll, even though he has valid points at times, it's important that we not forget who he is. I do admire the fact that he has kept his name even though everyone knows that he is from the SA forum, and here to just bug the hell out of people. Either way maybe he's changed but regardless he doesn't seem to like dealing with nonsense the same way I do.

Why not a debate through text, any specific reason?  It seems like it will be easier for people to follow a text debate.
I think it would be a much more fruitful debate if I am able to articulate my points across at a rapid fire pace, instead of the prewritten baloney you will see from typing.

This seems like a pretty good platform http://www.debateitlive.com/index.php


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FlipPro
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August 17, 2011, 07:40:57 AM
 #89

I propose a debate about economics to FlipPro (and anyone else). You and me only, no "OMG LOL You are diluded WTF", speaking like adults, replying honestly to what the other person is saying, not cheapshots, etc...

If you accept well open a new thread and will debate.
I will debate you on all political matters and common sense social issues, but not via text. I will only do it if we can go head to head live via video with a fair moderator.

I'm serious.

edit: And yes Jeffk is a troll, even though he has valid points at times, it's important that we not forget who he is. I do admire the fact that he has kept his name even though everyone knows that he is from the SA forum, and here to just bug the hell out of people. Either way maybe he's changed but regardless he doesn't seem to like dealing with nonsense the same way I do.

The problem with this is that I am not american and english is not my first language. I would have problems debating you live in english. Why not do it in text? Whats the problem? You seem to have no problem writing here.

Ill let you choose the topic in economics you want to debate about.
We are debating here now in text. Smiley

Make your points and I will try to take them all seriously. 

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The Script
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August 17, 2011, 07:41:51 AM
 #90

I propose a debate about economics to FlipPro (and anyone else). You and me only, no "OMG LOL You are diluded WTF", speaking like adults, replying honestly to what the other person is saying, not cheapshots, etc...

If you accept well open a new thread and will debate.
I will debate you on all political matters and common sense social issues, but not via text. I will only do it if we can go head to head live via video with a fair moderator.

I'm serious.

edit: And yes Jeffk is a troll, even though he has valid points at times, it's important that we not forget who he is. I do admire the fact that he has kept his name even though everyone knows that he is from the SA forum, and here to just bug the hell out of people. Either way maybe he's changed but regardless he doesn't seem to like dealing with nonsense the same way I do.

The problem with this is that I am not american and english is not my first language. I would have problems debating you live in english. Why not do it in text? Whats the problem? You seem to have no problem writing here.

Ill let you choose the topic in economics you want to debate about.

This shouldn't be a problem.  We'll just let you choose the language.  Dutch?  French?   Wink
hugolp
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August 17, 2011, 07:44:48 AM
 #91

Make your points and I will try to take them all seriously.

Choose any topic on economics, the one you feel more confident, and open I will open a new thread.

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This shouldn't be a problem.  We'll just let you choose the language.  Dutch?  French?

Catalan and spanish.
The Script
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August 17, 2011, 07:59:05 AM
 #92


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This shouldn't be a problem.  We'll just let you choose the language.  Dutch?  French?

Catalan and spanish.

Nice.  For some reason I thought you were Dutch or Belgian.  Now I get to practice my Spanish with you....   Wink
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August 17, 2011, 01:20:22 PM
 #93

US budget 2010: $3.55 tril

That says absolutely nothing about how much I actually use. I really don't need or want social security, medicaid, foreign wars, etc, etc. Your numbers are worthless just like the posts you make.


I don't give a half shit what you want, because we all want to pay nothing at all.  However, we're all responsible for paying for the federal budget.  If you don't want to have such high spending, get off your ass and vote in someone that won't spend as much.

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August 17, 2011, 01:24:48 PM
 #94

It's not our job to enforce morality on each other with violence. We shun people that do things like that but we don't hold a gun to their head and tell them to stop.


More like, get ready to feel the wrath of my shotgun or if I don't catch you, my private security firm will.


HAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAH

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hugolp
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August 17, 2011, 02:19:18 PM
 #95

AyeYo you are an asshole. You are the perfect example why this forum has been derailed. Its impossible to have an honest debate with assholes like you around.

How do progressives like this one pass as loving and caring human beings?
NghtRppr
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August 17, 2011, 02:36:55 PM
 #96

Or, you know, they'll be seen as easy targets by the companies that do have armies and will be promptly and violently taken over. Really now. I love that the people complaining about regulations creating barriers to entry for small businesses are the same ones who are advocating for a society where those businesses will need to hire private armies to fend off bigger businesses.

It's fairly simple. As long as the number of people that want to use aggression to achieve their goals are outnumbered by the people that don't, we'll win. If not, we're fucked no matter how society is organized.

What the hell? Mind elaborating on this, because I really don't see what this is supposed to mean.

Both seduction and rape can look exactly alike with the same results. There can be penetration, fluids exchanged, smacking around, etc but one is moral and the other is immoral. Why? Because seduction is consensual. If you and a sexual partner agree to smack each other around, I may find it obscene, perverse, whatever, but it's still voluntary so even though the observable consequences are the same, it's a very different situation. The fact that we would have we still have workers and society under libertarianism is not an issue because it will be voluntary, in the sense that it won't be perpetuated by physical aggression or fraud.

Based on the history of what modern corporations have been able to get away with and face little or no outcry or boycott, we apparently don't shun people who do things like that.

Then what's the issue? If we're not prepared to shun people like that then how can we insist we have a huge problem with it? I may hate that gas costs the current price it does but I still pay for it because considering the alternatives, I value the gas more than the dollar amount. If I had the converse evaluation, say if gas as $1,000 a gallon, I'd keep my money and buy a bike.

This also assumes that the newspapers that would have reported those misdeeds wouldn't just be a different division of the same company that comitted them. Or making ad money from them. Or anything else that gives them financial incentive to cover it up.

Newspapers are businesses just like any other. Different ones cater to different interests. If the demand for tabloid celebrity gossip is high, there will be more of those. If the demand for "just tell me what I want to hear" is high you'll get heavily biased news sources. There's nobody else to blame but ourselves. However, there are companies like Consumer Reports and if we have a high enough demand for it, they could expand or similar sources could enter the market.

Also, I noticed that you didn't respond to:

Quote
I didn't ignore it at all, that's why I specifically said "All free trades are mutually beneficial before the trade takes place." If you change your mind, decide you don't like the color, the flavor or whatever, you're goddamned right that's your fault. Next time, be more careful. As long as there was no fraud involved, it's definitely your fault.

Does that mean you agree?

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August 17, 2011, 02:39:48 PM
 #97

AyeYo you are an asshole. You are the perfect example why this forum has been derailed. Its impossible to have an honest debate with assholes like you around.

How do progressives like this one pass as loving and caring human beings?

Most statists are immoral/idiots, otherwise they would have stopped or will soon stop being one.
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August 17, 2011, 07:45:01 PM
 #98

AyeYo you are an asshole. You are the perfect example why this forum has been derailed. Its impossible to have an honest debate with assholes like you around.

How do progressives like this one pass as loving and caring human beings?

A bunch of personal attacks, but no one bothers to address the contradiction of his posts.  But you think I'm the one making it impossible to have an honest debate.  Roll Eyes

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August 18, 2011, 12:13:19 AM
 #99

And what's funny is that these same people want to return to the "good old days" when the country was growing strong because there were no taxes on the rich... oh wait..



+1

The good old days when there was a middle class.  The good old days when wealth was not concentrated into fewer and fewer peoples hands. 

I am not advocating huge taxes on the rich.  Just taxes that are fair, and have proven to work well for the economy. 

When middle class people have money, they spend MOST of it and this creates more economic activity.  When poor people have money, they spend ALL of it creating more economic activity.  When rich people have money, they hoard it, slowing economic activity. 




AyeYo
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August 18, 2011, 12:30:34 AM
 #100


When middle class people have money, they spend MOST of it and this creates more economic activity.  When poor people have money, they spend ALL of it creating more economic activity.  When rich people have money, they hoard it, slowing economic activity. 






Such a simple concept but so few here seem to grasp it.

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