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Author Topic: Stop Coddling the Super-Rich: Warren Buffett  (Read 5512 times)
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August 15, 2011, 07:03:45 PM
 #1

http://www.cnbc.com/id/44142272

"My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress. It's time for our government to get serious about shared sacrifice," the 80-year-old "Oracle of Omaha" wrote in an opinion article in The New York Times.

Buffett, one of the world's richest men and chairman of conglomerate Berkshire Hathaway [BRK.A  108789.00    1189.00  (+1.11%)   ] said his federal tax bill last year was $6,938,744.

"That sounds like a lot of money. But what I paid was only 17.4 percent of my taxable income—and that's actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office. Their tax burdens ranged from 33 percent to 41 percent, and averaged 36 percent," he said.

Conservatives / Libertarians jumping in to repudiate the words of someone 10000 times richer than them in 3...2...1  Roll Eyes

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August 15, 2011, 07:06:49 PM
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Conservatives / Libertarians jumping in to repudiate the words of someone 10000 times richer than them in 3...2...1  Roll Eyes

LOL  Can't wait.

Buffett is a good guy that's not afraid to tell it like it is.  He may be extremely rich, but he hasn't let it get to his head and he's remained an advocate of NOT raping the middle class to give welfare to the rich.

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August 15, 2011, 08:12:23 PM
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I'm against welfare for the rich and poor alike. Here's a novel idea. Live off of what you can earn through free trade or receive through charity. No wait, that would require whining parasites to actually fend for themselves. We can't have any personal responsibility. If you want to give your money away then have at it but just because you have some wild hare up your ass doesn't mean you speak for everyone else.
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August 15, 2011, 08:28:42 PM
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There are more holes in that article than there are in the tax code.  But it really shouldn't come as any surprise that Forbes would be quick to condemn someone of Buffett's stature speaking ill of our current rich-favoring tax code - someone might actually... *gasp!* ...believe him.

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August 15, 2011, 08:50:17 PM
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There are more holes in that article than there are in the tax code.  But it really shouldn't come as any surprise that Forbes would be quick to condemn someone of Buffett's stature speaking ill of our current rich-favoring tax code - someone might actually... *gasp!* ...believe him.

What holes? If a majority of W.B.'s income is in the form of dividends (and no doubt many of his expenses are corporate expenses eligible for write off) that is in fact the tax rate on dividends which is a double tax.... initially the 35% on corporate profit and then later an additional 15% on the dividends himself.  Additionally, much of W.B.'s wealth is paper money in the form of long-term (self quoted as favored holding time being forever) investments which are taxed at 0% until the profit and appreciation is realized... i.e. sold or traded for some other investment of lesser value....

So.... What holes?


Because there isn't a corporation in the country that actually pays the full corporate tax, some even end up with tax CREDITS.  There are so many loopholes in corporate tax that that rate is a useless number.

Even if we pretend that the corporate tax rates are worth the paper they're printed on, the fact that the corporation's profits are taxed before they distribute dividends doesn't mean a goddamn thing for the taxes Buffett pays on his income.  The corporation is its own entity, it needs to pay taxes just like everyone else.  Taxing the corporation on its profits and then taxing shareholders for their income from dividends is NOT double taxation.

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August 15, 2011, 10:49:57 PM
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Because there isn't a corporation in the country that actually pays the full corporate tax, some even end up with tax CREDITS.  There are so many loopholes in corporate tax that that rate is a useless number.

Even if we pretend that the corporate tax rates are worth the paper they're printed on, the fact that the corporation's profits are taxed before they distribute dividends doesn't mean a goddamn thing for the taxes Buffett pays on his income.  The corporation is its own entity, it needs to pay taxes just like everyone else.  Taxing the corporation on its profits and then taxing shareholders for their income from dividends is NOT double taxation.

You apparently are under misinformation regarding what a profit is and how corporations pay taxes and dividends...  Dividends come from profits by definition ... a corporation will NOT pay dividends when they shelter all their income to look as if they earned no money and yes corporations do this and a lot of these are for very frivolous things.... Warren Buffet exploits every thing he possibly can to maximize this and he pays accordingly with a fleet of highly trained accountants.... when Warren Buffet speaks he makes money it is a simple fact, he has motivations beyond just being a nice guy to want him and his peers to pay more in taxes, he will profit more from this in ways you or I couldn't even fathom... or he wouldn't even say it.  If he feels so "kind-hearted" then why doesn't he just go and give 90% more of his and his companies income to the government... they don't need it and the government can use that money better than he can right?


That's a highly illogical argument.  There's no reason for him to give money away so that all can benefit while he alone foots the bill.

I don't think you understand the complexity of corporate tax structure.  There is a reason corporations have multiple divisions and organizations within them.  They usually have an intentional loss leader (like GE's GE Capital) that consistantly loses tremendous amounts of money for tax write-off purposes so that the company as a whole comes up tax neutral (or even with the government owing them money).



but wait your money was already taxed


No, it wasn't.  The COMPANY'S money was already taxed, not my money.  The company is a separate entity.  Shareholders are partial owners of the company, but the company is its own being.  The company pays its taxes and the individual owner must pay his own taxes.  That's not double taxation, that's everyone paying their taxes.

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August 15, 2011, 10:54:52 PM
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I'm could give a shit about marginal tax rates. I'm not after a little bit of wealth redistribution.
I'm interested in overturning a whole system where one person can be worth as much as entire medium size countries.
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August 16, 2011, 03:52:38 AM
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But it really shouldn't come as any surprise that Forbes would be quick to condemn someone of Buffett's stature speaking ill of our current rich-favoring tax code - someone might actually... *gasp!* ...believe him.

Ad hominem fallacy.
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August 16, 2011, 06:10:24 AM
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But it really shouldn't come as any surprise that Forbes would be quick to condemn someone of Buffett's stature speaking ill of our current rich-favoring tax code - someone might actually... *gasp!* ...believe him.

Ad hominem fallacy.

Not really. Fallacious appeal to authority? That the phrase you're trying for?


Oh, who gives a fuck what you think, I'm just popping in to say that the more you post on this forum the fewer non-crazy customers you'll get. Just FYI. Enjoy being marginalized.
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August 16, 2011, 06:19:40 AM
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Oh, who gives a fuck what you think, I'm just popping in to say that the more you post on this forum the fewer non-crazy customers you'll get. Just FYI. Enjoy being marginalized.

It's pretty funny how the people on here who think of capitalism as some kind of God-like force that can do no wrong are also the ones who are so bad at business that they see no problem running around calling potential customers "whining parasites". The advertisement for his service in his sig is like some kind of perfect punchline on the end of every post.
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August 16, 2011, 06:32:16 AM
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Oh, who gives a fuck what you think, I'm just popping in to say that the more you post on this forum the fewer non-crazy customers you'll get. Just FYI. Enjoy being marginalized.

It's pretty funny how the people on here who think of capitalism as some kind of God-like force that can do no wrong are also the ones who are so bad at business that they see no problem running around calling potential customers "whining parasites". The advertisement for his service in his sig is like some kind of perfect punchline on the end of every post.

Hah, indeed... except replace "funny" with "sad" and I can fully agree with you.

At any rate... kids these days. Sheesh.
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August 16, 2011, 07:24:08 AM
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Buffett, one of the world's richest men and chairman of conglomerate Berkshire Hathaway [BRK.A  108789.00    1189.00  (+1.11%)   ] said his federal tax bill last year was $6,938,744.

Conservatives / Libertarians jumping in to repudiate the words of someone 10000 times richer than them in 3...2...1  Roll Eyes

Warren Buffet is not rich by being nice to people like you and me.

http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/stop-coddling-warren-buffett

Quote
Stop coddling Warren Buffett
byTimothy P. Carney

As most of the media goes gaga over Billionaire Obama fundraiser Warren Buffett calling for tax hikes, (like he did in 2001, and 2004, and plenty of times in between), let’s remember a few things.

 

Buffett Profits from Taxes He Supports

Buffett regularly lobbies for higher estate taxes. He also has repeatedly bought up family businesses forced to sell because the heirs’ death-tax bill exceeded the business’s liquid assets. He owns life insurance companies that rely on the death tax in order to sell their estate-planning businesses.

Buffett Profits from Government Spending

Buffett made about a billion dollars off of the Wall Street bailout by investing in Goldman Sachs on the assumption Uncle Sam would bail it out. He also is planning investments in ethanol giant ADM and government-contracting leviathan General Dynamics.

If your businesses’ revenue comes from the U.S. Treasury, of course you want more wealth.

Im sure Warren Buffet will thank you for voting politicians that make him rich.
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August 16, 2011, 09:17:34 AM
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Warren Buffet is not rich by being nice to people like you and me.
Were you going to inherit a large company but can't because of tax? If like most of us you were not then you benefit from today's system in exactly the same way he does, he has just been much better at seeing the opportunities. When he dies a lot of his wealth be up for grabs again for anyone else with enough brains to take advantage of it.
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August 16, 2011, 09:25:28 AM
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Were you going to inherit a large company but can't because of tax? If like most of us you were not then you benefit from today's system in exactly the same way he does, he has just been much better at seeing the opportunities. When he dies a lot of his wealth be up for grabs again for anyone else with enough brains to take advantage of it.

No. Both my parents work for the government.

But you and I are being hurt by those actions even when we wont inherit a company, because it produces a concentration of wealth in fewer hands and reduces competition.

One thing is being clever by respecting and profiting from benefiting your fellow citizens. Its very different profitting from imposing rules by force onto your fellow citizens. The first helps human progress, the later destroys society and hurts the people.
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August 16, 2011, 10:21:19 AM
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But you and I are being hurt by those actions even when we wont inherit a company, because it produces a concentration of wealth in fewer hands and reduces competition.
You are the first person I've seen who claims that a system which favors heredity over merit reduces the concentration of wealth. Interesting theory...
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August 16, 2011, 11:40:02 AM
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But you and I are being hurt by those actions even when we wont inherit a company, because it produces a concentration of wealth in fewer hands and reduces competition.
You are the first person I've seen who claims that a system which favors heredity over merit reduces the concentration of wealth. Interesting theory...

I did not claim such a thing. Try again (and if you want an honest debate, stop the trolling attitude).
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August 16, 2011, 11:51:10 AM
 #17

I just found it interesting when W. B. turned this new leaf as some kind of consumer advocate and adviser to the POTUS soon after the Madoff revelation. I'm not sayin, I'm just sayin.

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August 16, 2011, 11:57:16 AM
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I just found it interesting when W. B. turned this new leaf as some kind of consumer advocate and adviser to the POTUS soon after the Madoff revelation. I'm not sayin, I'm just sayin.

New leaf? Dude's been saying this stuff for years:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/26/business/yourmoney/26every.html
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0306-01.htm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/tax/article1996735.ece
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August 16, 2011, 12:44:54 PM
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I did not claim such a thing.
Not directly, but it is the implication of you statement unless you live in some alternative world where people just stop accumulating wealth when they're "rich enough" (by whatever your standards may be).
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August 16, 2011, 01:16:48 PM
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In a related story, Dick Cheney suggests poor people eat cake in an effort to address the bread shortage.

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