Winklevoss: Trying to pump before they dump?

[porc]

PUMP:

"The brothers are unsurprisingly bullish on Bitcoin. Cameron’s conservative bet is that its US dollar valuation will surpass $40,000 per coin — a potentially colossal figure — as he explained in a response to one Reddit user: "small bull case scenario for Bitcoin is a 400 billion USD dollar market cap, so 40,000 USD a coin, but I believe it could be much larger. When this will happen, if it happens, I don’t know, but if it happens, it will probably happen much faster than anyone imagines.""

DUMP:

"The twins are in the process of setting up the Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust, a listed fund to manage their Bitcoin wealth and bring greater legitimacy to the virtual currency. Papers for the initial public offering were filed in July, but the final decision is still pending. Due to regulations, Cameron was unable to discuss the trust in the AMA"

http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/12/15/winklevoss-twin-says-bitcoin-valuation-will-top-40k-plays-down-silk-road-closure/#!p2vds

"In a move that could come to mark a major new era for the virtual currency, Tyler and Cameron Winklevoss have filed to float their stash of Bitcoins on a conventional stock exchange. The former Olympic rowers have lodged papers for a $20m initial public offering of the Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust, which holds their Bitcoin wealth, and would be managed by the Winklevoss' investment fund, Math-Based Asset Services. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/10157710/Winklevoss-twins-20m-plan-to-make-Bitcoin-mainstream.html

Obviously they want the price to be as high as possible, before they dump via this fund. This is a clever tactic, as the dumping via a trust can support the price (wow new trust, look at the adoption) and you can get rid of your coins. If you dump on an exchange it leads to total collapse.

If they are so convinced of this high price, why sell the position. Sounds like a scam to me.

[ajax3592]

Well on his AMA on reddit, Cameron was like I'mma hold em like SPARTAN ! He "sounded" like he was into it for long term.

[porc]

Well on his AMA on reddit, Cameron was like I'mma hold em like SPARTAN ! He "sounded" like he was into it for long term.

Of course he sounded like this, he wants you to buy them after all.

Again, fact is that they are dumping their coins via this trust. They are selling a major part of their stack. If they believe the 40.000 dollar estimate is conservative, why sell?

[chmod755]

If they are so convinced of this high price, why sell the position.

Some (especially those with several billions or even trillions) might avoid Bitcoin as a currency with public information available about two people owning ~1% of it – knowing they bought "low" compared to the current exchange rate and they might need some money to get their IPO started. It simply can't go – or at least it won't stay at $40,000 with a wealth distribution like this – greed and the risk of someone dumping 1% holds it down – that's why you diversify…

That being said: I think their intentions are good.

[odolvlobo]

It really depends on how much of their hoard they are selling. It makes a lot of sense to sell a portion of your bitcoins in order to increase adoption if it greatly increases the value of the bitcoins you hold onto.

[porc]

If they are so convinced of this high price, why sell the position.

Some (especially those with several billions or even trillions) might avoid Bitcoin as a currency with public information available about two people owning ~1% of it – knowing they bought "low" compared to the current exchange rate and they might need some money to get their IPO started. It simply can't go – or at least it won't stay at $40,000 with a wealth distribution like this – greed and the risk of someone dumping 1% holds it down – that's why you diversify…

That being said: I think their intentions are good.

Yes, this another major problem for bitcoin, however they cant solve it, as they are tiny in comparison to some other early adopters. We already have a huge one sided distribution in favor of early adopters, who hold over 50% of the bitcoin supply. This design was built in on purpose, Satoshi himself doesnt seem to mind otherwise he would have designed it differently. Again I find it peculiar to say the least, that they are so convinced of the $40000 price tag but already want to dump.

To me the explanation that they just want OUT is more straightforward than what you point to, as they cant fix the design flaw (if they think distribution is one).

[marcus_of_augustus]

Why would they want out ... they already have hundreds of millions in other assets, this is a relatively small play, however it could become huge for them. If they were to leave it now then do they have something better lined up? What would you suggest that is US T-bonds? Shares? Hampton housing?

Your wild accusations make zero sense from the ground up. Their best course of action right now is stay put, ride the bull, maybe diversify some into bitcoin ancillary services, imho.

[gentlemand]

I assume they want to get in on the ground floor of a new paradigm.

If they wanted to pump and dump they could stay under the radar and wreak havoc with a few million dollars here and there. They could do that tomorrow and not have to be pimping themselves in public and waiting for months on end to get going.

[chmod755]

Yes, this another major problem for bitcoin, however they cant solve it, as they are tiny in comparison to some other early adopters. We already have a huge one sided distribution in favor of early adopters, who hold over 50% of the bitcoin supply. This design was built in on purpose, Satoshi himself doesnt seem to mind otherwise he would have designed it differently. Again I find it peculiar to say the least, that they are so convinced of the $40000 price tag but already want to dump.

Where did you get this number? It seems difficult to estimate the amount of Bitcoins that has been destroyed permanently and to see how the distribution of Bitcoins on exchanges and other services breaks down and how addresses belonging to the same person are connected… Of course: if your money is on an exchange it's technically a single place in control of it…

[porc]

Why would they want out ... they already have hundreds of millions in other assets, this is a relatively small play, however it could become huge for them. If they were to leave it now then do they have something better lined up? What would you suggest that is US T-bonds? Shares? Hampton housing?

Your wild accusations make zero sense from the ground up. Their best course of action right now is stay put, ride the bull, maybe diversify some into bitcoin ancillary services, imho.

Well they are selling their bitcoin stake. Read my post.

[porc]

Where did get this number?

50% of bitcoins have been mined already.

[Nebulous]

PUMP:

"The brothers are unsurprisingly bullish on Bitcoin. Cameron’s conservative bet is that its US dollar valuation will surpass $40,000 per coin — a potentially colossal figure — as he explained in a response to one Reddit user: "small bull case scenario for Bitcoin is a 400 billion USD dollar market cap, so 40,000 USD a coin, but I believe it could be much larger. When this will happen, if it happens, I don’t know, but if it happens, it will probably happen much faster than anyone imagines.""

DUMP:

"The twins are in the process of setting up the Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust, a listed fund to manage their Bitcoin wealth and bring greater legitimacy to the virtual currency. Papers for the initial public offering were filed in July, but the final decision is still pending. Due to regulations, Cameron was unable to discuss the trust in the AMA"

http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/12/15/winklevoss-twin-says-bitcoin-valuation-will-top-40k-plays-down-silk-road-closure/#!p2vds

"In a move that could come to mark a major new era for the virtual currency, Tyler and Cameron Winklevoss have filed to float their stash of Bitcoins on a conventional stock exchange. The former Olympic rowers have lodged papers for a $20m initial public offering of the Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust, which holds their Bitcoin wealth, and would be managed by the Winklevoss' investment fund, Math-Based Asset Services. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/10157710/Winklevoss-twins-20m-plan-to-make-Bitcoin-mainstream.html

Obviously they want the price to be as high as possible, before they dump via this fund. This is a clever tactic, as the dumping via a trust can support the price (wow new trust, look at the adoption) and you can get rid of your coins. If you dump on an exchange it leads to total collapse.

If they are so convinced of this high price, why sell the position. Sounds like a scam to me.

Hmmm, I think your tin foil hat is cutting circulation to your brain now, try plastering the walls with aluminum instead

[porc]

I assume they want to get in on the ground floor of a new paradigm.

If they wanted to pump and dump they could stay under the radar and wreak havoc with a few million dollars here and there. They could do that tomorrow and not have to be pimping themselves in public and waiting for months on end to get going.

Lol no. The best dump is their method.

[pand70]

Dumping when? Once bitcoin reaches 40000$ or when their etf becomes live?
In any case i have some second thoughts about the timing of this ama.

[porc]

Dumping when? Once bitcoin reaches 40000$ or when their etf becomes live?

Dumping as soon as the etf comes live. The etf is the vehicle for the twins to dump their holdings.

[GoldWater]

Dumping when? Once bitcoin reaches 40000$ or when their etf becomes live?

Dumping as soon as the etf comes live. The etf is the vehicle for the twins to dump their holdings.

That's an extremely good point....

And yes, roughly 50% of Bitcoins have been mined but it's not the number of coins, rather the number of decimals....

[pand70]

Dumping when? Once bitcoin reaches 40000$ or when their etf becomes live?

Dumping as soon as the etf comes live. The etf is the vehicle for the twins to dump their holdings.

That doesn't makes sense. Obviously they can earn more dumping there rather on an exchange but not that more to justify the risk of waiting for the fund to approve if they believe that bitcoin is a  pump and dump scheme.
They may dump some when bitcoin reaches 40000$ but who wouldn't  

[psyclon]

If they are so convinced of this high price, why sell the position.

Some (especially those with several billions or even trillions) might avoid Bitcoin as a currency with public information available about two people owning ~1% of it – knowing they bought "low" compared to the current exchange rate and they might need some money to get their IPO started. It simply can't go – or at least it won't stay at $40,000 with a wealth distribution like this – greed and the risk of someone dumping 1% holds it down – that's why you diversify…

That being said: I think their intentions are good.

Yes, this another major problem for bitcoin, however they cant solve it, as they are tiny in comparison to some other early adopters. We already have a huge one sided distribution in favor of early adopters, who hold over 50% of the bitcoin supply. This design was built in on purpose, Satoshi himself doesnt seem to mind otherwise he would have designed it differently. Again I find it peculiar to say the least, that they are so convinced of the $40000 price tag but already want to dump.

To me the explanation that they just want OUT is more straightforward than what you point to, as they cant fix the design flaw (if they think distribution is one).

that guy could have made billion dollars if cashed out at top. the exchanges did make a lot too.

[Sindelar1938]

Possible but I don't think the winklevii's actions make a difference to BTC long term
Wishful thinking possibly

[Adrian-x]

Well on his AMA on reddit, Cameron was like I'mma hold em like SPARTAN ! He "sounded" like he was into it for long term.

Of course he sounded like this, he wants you to buy them after all.

Again, fact is that they are dumping their coins via this trust. They are selling a major part of their stack. If they believe the 40.000 dollar estimate is conservative, why sell?

To use the wealth, what good is wealth that can't be realized and when you realize it how much is enough?
Why take it from the community that made Bitcoin when you can help deflate the stock market bubble.

Sure it is pump and dump, the idea people will save there coins and die hungry is silly everyone will sell spend when the price is right.