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Author Topic: Discussion on the legality of operating and investing in Bitcoin businesses  (Read 853 times)
Ben Walsh (beamer)
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August 16, 2011, 02:41:16 PM
 #1

Weird that investment would be turned down.

Did u offer to buy shares at the market rate through GLBSE, and agree to the same terms as any other investor?

Weird that investment would be turned down.

Did u offer to buy shares at the market rate through GLBSE, and agree to the same terms as any other investor?

Yes. Basically I am considering alterantives after my own data cetner project went bollocks - too many people trying to squeeze me at the same time realizing they could up the price.

I inquired about a 1000 btc investment - did not want to get stuck just buying shares, and then any glbse operation is at least a little shady per definition, as everyone so far dodges the legal requirements of his home country... like I am sure SIN is not a registered business. Even if, there are regulations for share companies that are not followed.

Thought i contact them and try to get a little more info out - got a "not before mid of september". Still interested Wink

Legally, its 100% fine. A company trading in Bitcoins does not need to be registered or anything like that, as it's all completely self-contained and off the grid as it were. You could draw a parallel with setting up a guild in World of Warcraft or EVE online that paid out in-game currency to its members.

Imagine if anyone that sold an item in World of Warcraft needed to register it with the tax man... I'm not sure the IRS accepts Warcraft gold as payment Wink

The one thing that you are illegal on is income tax evasion when you eventually sell the Bitcoins for real-life money, you are required to pay income tax on any profit, much like WoW players selling swords on eBay are liable for income tax.

I think you could get around this if you sell Bitcoins and deposit the funds directly into an offshore account, I don't think that tax laws apply in that case. I think this is what some of the bigger WoW guilds do when they sell a lot of gold, but maybe worth reading up on first..

Legally, its 100% fine. A company trading in Bitcoins does not need to be registered or anything like that, as it's all completely self-contained and off the grid as it were. You could draw a parallel with setting up a guild in World of Warcraft or EVE online that paid out in-game currency to its members.

Imagine if anyone that sold an item in World of Warcraft needed to register it with the tax man... I'm not sure the IRS accepts Warcraft gold as payment Wink

The one thing that you are illegal on is income tax evasion when you eventually sell the Bitcoins for real-life money, you are required to pay income tax on any profit, much like WoW players selling swords on eBay are liable for income tax.

I think you could get around this if you sell Bitcoins and deposit the funds directly into an offshore account, I don't think that tax laws apply in that case. I think this is what some of the bigger WoW guilds do when they sell a lot of gold, but maybe worth reading up on first..

Essentially with regards tax, you do need to pay tax on profits earned in bitcoin, you must however convert those owed taxes to USD first. However as long as you don't convert your btc to USD via a bank  leaving a trail that the IRS can get at you're scott free.

Legally, its 100% fine. A company trading in Bitcoins does not need to be registered or anything like that, as it's all completely self-contained and off the grid as it were. You could draw a parallel with setting up a guild in World of Warcraft or EVE online that paid out in-game currency to its members.

Imagine if anyone that sold an item in World of Warcraft needed to register it with the tax man... I'm not sure the IRS accepts Warcraft gold as payment Wink

The one thing that you are illegal on is income tax evasion when you eventually sell the Bitcoins for real-life money, you are required to pay income tax on any profit, much like WoW players selling swords on eBay are liable for income tax.

I think you could get around this if you sell Bitcoins and deposit the funds directly into an offshore account, I don't think that tax laws apply in that case. I think this is what some of the bigger WoW guilds do when they sell a lot of gold, but maybe worth reading up on first..

Want to meet me in court?

Here we go:

* The company represents itself as company but has no  business license.
* Legally this is a very shady ground. I assume he is a US citizen, and the servers are in the US. He has solicitated shares in a public company on an OTC market not following any of the issues within the legislation and witout a fully legal prospectus. THere are some really nastyy lawys for seeking investors.
* I am quite sure every non total idiot lawyer will tell you that this is differeent from an Eve guild - as this is a real company with the goal to make money. A business liccense is the least of the problems.
* Accounting? Wink Who audits the books? Does the company declare income and expeses as it should? Now here is the goal - Bitcoin may not be real life money, but they are valuable goods.

Not saying the operation in itself is bad, but hey - someone looses moeny here, takes him to court, then there is a PLENTHORA of legal problems coming. Including some hundred thousand in legal costs.

now, you thinking the tax law does not apply - some reality check. US citizens have to legally declare income on every income in the world they do. Wow guilds get away by tax evasion, but you will find that you dont possibly have shareholders suing them here.

This is the main problem. Basically, if he takes "real" money (not a small joke) and things get bad - a lawyer will start accusing a lot of formally bad things, from bad accounting to break of securities regulations. The result will be pretty much a desaster. I doubt (and it is clear from your statement that you fall into this) the investors are "qualified investors" by the definition of the law.

I only expect to be protected by the state when I have paid adequate taxes to the state to fund that protection.

Greater freedom (particularly from state control of the Bitcoin currency through anonymity of transactions) means greater individual responsibility.

If you want the state to protect your investments go invest in registered businesses operating in fiat currencies, there are plenty of them.

If you are willing to forego that protection, in exchange for greater potential returns - welcome to Bitcoin businesses.

This is why trust and reputation is so much more important in the Bitcoin world.


Legally, its 100% fine. A company trading in Bitcoins does not need to be registered or anything like that, as it's all completely self-contained and off the grid as it were. You could draw a parallel with setting up a guild in World of Warcraft or EVE online that paid out in-game currency to its members.

Imagine if anyone that sold an item in World of Warcraft needed to register it with the tax man... I'm not sure the IRS accepts Warcraft gold as payment Wink

The one thing that you are illegal on is income tax evasion when you eventually sell the Bitcoins for real-life money, you are required to pay income tax on any profit, much like WoW players selling swords on eBay are liable for income tax.

I think you could get around this if you sell Bitcoins and deposit the funds directly into an offshore account, I don't think that tax laws apply in that case. I think this is what some of the bigger WoW guilds do when they sell a lot of gold, but maybe worth reading up on first..

Want to meet me in court?

Here we go:

* The company represents itself as company but has no  business license.
* Legally this is a very shady ground. I assume he is a US citizen, and the servers are in the US. He has solicitated shares in a public company on an OTC market not following any of the issues within the legislation and witout a fully legal prospectus. THere are some really nastyy lawys for seeking investors.
* I am quite sure every non total idiot lawyer will tell you that this is differeent from an Eve guild - as this is a real company with the goal to make money. A business liccense is the least of the problems.
* Accounting? Wink Who audits the books? Does the company declare income and expeses as it should? Now here is the goal - Bitcoin may not be real life money, but they are valuable goods.

Not saying the operation in itself is bad, but hey - someone looses moeny here, takes him to court, then there is a PLENTHORA of legal problems coming. Including some hundred thousand in legal costs.

now, you thinking the tax law does not apply - some reality check. US citizens have to legally declare income on every income in the world they do. Wow guilds get away by tax evasion, but you will find that you dont possibly have shareholders suing them here.

This is the main problem. Basically, if he takes "real" money (not a small joke) and things get bad - a lawyer will start accusing a lot of formally bad things, from bad accounting to break of securities regulations. The result will be pretty much a desaster. I doubt (and it is clear from your statement that you fall into this) the investors are "qualified investors" by the definition of the law.

There is a good thread discussing this further here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=35667.0

I only expect to be protected by the state when I have paid adequate taxes to the state to fund that protection.

Greater freedom (particularly from state control of the Bitcoin currency through anonymity of transactions) means greater individual responsibility.

If you want the state to protect your investments go invest in registered businesses operating in fiat currencies, there are plenty of them.

If you are willing to forego that protection, in exchange for greater potential returns - welcome to Bitcoin businesses.

This is why trust and reputation is so much more important in the Bitcoin world.


Legally, its 100% fine. A company trading in Bitcoins does not need to be registered or anything like that, as it's all completely self-contained and off the grid as it were. You could draw a parallel with setting up a guild in World of Warcraft or EVE online that paid out in-game currency to its members.

Imagine if anyone that sold an item in World of Warcraft needed to register it with the tax man... I'm not sure the IRS accepts Warcraft gold as payment Wink

The one thing that you are illegal on is income tax evasion when you eventually sell the Bitcoins for real-life money, you are required to pay income tax on any profit, much like WoW players selling swords on eBay are liable for income tax.

I think you could get around this if you sell Bitcoins and deposit the funds directly into an offshore account, I don't think that tax laws apply in that case. I think this is what some of the bigger WoW guilds do when they sell a lot of gold, but maybe worth reading up on first..

Want to meet me in court?

Here we go:

* The company represents itself as company but has no  business license.
* Legally this is a very shady ground. I assume he is a US citizen, and the servers are in the US. He has solicitated shares in a public company on an OTC market not following any of the issues within the legislation and witout a fully legal prospectus. THere are some really nastyy lawys for seeking investors.
* I am quite sure every non total idiot lawyer will tell you that this is differeent from an Eve guild - as this is a real company with the goal to make money. A business liccense is the least of the problems.
* Accounting? Wink Who audits the books? Does the company declare income and expeses as it should? Now here is the goal - Bitcoin may not be real life money, but they are valuable goods.

Not saying the operation in itself is bad, but hey - someone looses moeny here, takes him to court, then there is a PLENTHORA of legal problems coming. Including some hundred thousand in legal costs.

now, you thinking the tax law does not apply - some reality check. US citizens have to legally declare income on every income in the world they do. Wow guilds get away by tax evasion, but you will find that you dont possibly have shareholders suing them here.

This is the main problem. Basically, if he takes "real" money (not a small joke) and things get bad - a lawyer will start accusing a lot of formally bad things, from bad accounting to break of securities regulations. The result will be pretty much a desaster. I doubt (and it is clear from your statement that you fall into this) the investors are "qualified investors" by the definition of the law.

Want to meet me in court?

Sure, I could argue this all day long.
Quote
Here we go:

* The company represents itself as company but has no  business license.

You only need a business license if you operate with money. This company operates with bitcoins and is therefore unregulated.
Quote
* Legally this is a very shady ground. I assume he is a US citizen, and the servers are in the US. He has solicitated shares in a public company on an OTC market not following any of the issues within the legislation and witout a fully legal prospectus. THere are some really nastyy lawys for seeking investors.
Legally this is untested waters, if anything did go to court here, and I'm not sure exactly what he's meant to have done wrong anyway, then at best this would be a test case with minimal repercussions, at worst thrown out for lack of evidence of any wrongdoing.
Quote
* I am quite sure every non total idiot lawyer will tell you that this is differeent from an Eve guild - as this is a real company with the goal to make money. A business liccense is the least of the problems.
It is a company with eh goal of making *bitcoins*, not money. There's an important distinction there. Bitcoins are not recognised as money, or even property, they are an imaginary construct which happen to be able to be bought and sold at the moment for real money, but this could change at any time.
Quote
* Accounting? Wink Who audits the books? Does the company declare income and expeses as it should? Now here is the goal - Bitcoin may not be real life money, but they are valuable goods.
They're not valuable goods, they aren't even physcial, and there is no copyright or intellectual property associated with a bitcoin. They are as close to "nothing" as a thing can be while still actually existing. The fact people pay money to own them is irrelevant, people also pay money for EVE credits.
Quote
Not saying the operation in itself is bad, but hey - someone looses moeny here, takes him to court, then there is a PLENTHORA of legal problems coming. Including some hundred thousand in legal costs.
the word is loses not looses, and anyone who has bought shares is doing so purely on trust, you have no recourse if the value tumbles, or the guy just runs off with all the bitcoins. Imagine trying to explain the fact you lost all your imaginary internet money investing in an anonymous pseudo-stockmarket site to a lawyer or a judge, you'd be laughed out of court. It's an extremely risky investment, but one which can pay big.
Quote
now, you thinking the tax law does not apply - some reality check. US citizens have to legally declare income on every income in the world they do. Wow guilds get away by tax evasion, but you will find that you dont possibly have shareholders suing them here.
the larger WOW guilds are bigger and much better funded than any of the companies on the bitcoin stock exchange. The arguments about lost items and hacked accounts are just as serious as the ones you're making (ie not at all).
Quote
This is the main problem. Basically, if he takes "real" money (not a small joke) and things get bad - a lawyer will start accusing a lot of formally bad things, from bad accounting to break of securities regulations. The result will be pretty much a desaster. I doubt (and it is clear from your statement that you fall into this) the investors are "qualified investors" by the definition of the law.

I have no idea what you just said, and I don't think you do either. There is no "real" money changing hands here, only Bitcoins, which I've already explained are not recognised as anything by any law in any country in the world.

There is some risk of a tax issue if you CASH OUT your Bitcoins in AMERICA, but this can be avoided perfectly legally by cashing out in a country with no tax such as the Cayman Islands. People do this with real money transactions all the time, it's called offshore tax mitigation.

You can also illegally avoid any tax implications by cashing out in shady ways like ukash vouchers etc, but I'm not sure this would be any cheaper than the legal offshore method.

Gratulations. You proove the ignorance of the masses.

it is quite obviousBTC have value - look at all the exchanges. Case prooven. It is quite clclear SIN oeprates with rel money. It is buying equipment and paying electrical bills to operate them. Point prooven. It is quite obvious he is running a business - pretending to be a share ompany and selling shares on an unregulated exchange to pay revenue. Point prooven.

You dont need to use money. For many many years for example MINING operations take CREDITS in GOLD - with the itnerest also paid in gold, from the mining proceeds. THis is legally totally tested ground.

EVERY company on GLBSE istrying to operate outsie the law.

now, here comes the real world: Noone cares whether or not YOU Are only interested in being protected by the state when you pay taxes there. Something goes wrong, someone sues, the state wont care about your arrogant snotty attitude. Any investor can sue on his local court possibly, and definitely in the court of residence of the SIN operator. Dont like that - well, as long as you are the judge in question that is as irrelevant as most american opinions are for the rest of the world. The court will take your not caring ass and make you pay.

Gratulations. You proove the ignorance of the masses.

it is quite obviousBTC have value - look at all the exchanges. Case prooven. It is quite clclear SIN oeprates with rel money. It is buying equipment and paying electrical bills to operate them. Point prooven. It is quite obvious he is running a business - pretending to be a share ompany and selling shares on an unregulated exchange to pay revenue. Point prooven.

Saying "it's quite obvious" doesn't prove anything. It may be "obvious" to you, but that doesn't make any difference in the eyes of the law. The law works on precedent, not what's "obvious", and there is no precedent here.

Quote
You dont need to use money. For many many years for example MINING operations take CREDITS in GOLD - with the itnerest also paid in gold, from the mining proceeds. THis is legally totally tested ground.

You're cute. You're talking about frontier mining contracts from the 1800's. At that time gold was a legally recognised currency, so they were in fact using money. Bitcoin is not a legally recognised currency.

Quote
EVERY company on GLBSE istrying to operate outsie the law.

Yes, however in this case "outside the law" simply means there are no laws that apply to this situation. It is, believe it or not, still a free country.

There are no laws surrounding Eve online guilds either, that doesn't stop them operating like a company with a board of directors, share holders, employees, wages and so on. All of this is paid in ISK, the Eve online currency which can be bought and sold for real money, just look at eBay to "proove" it. Eve guilds are much bigger, more profitable and more well organised than any of the companies on GLBSE. Moreover, massive thefts and dishonesty about investments is commonplace on EVE. So far nobody has batted an eyelid about them "operating outside the law", or tried to sue someone in the courts for stealing spaceships.

Quote
now, here comes the real world: Noone cares whether or not YOU Are only interested in being protected by the state when you pay taxes there. Something goes wrong, someone sues, the state wont care about your arrogant snotty attitude. Any investor can sue on his local court possibly, and definitely in the court of residence of the SIN operator. Dont like that - well, as long as you are the judge in question that is as irrelevant as most american opinions are for the rest of the world. The court will take your not caring ass and make you pay.

Oh no, please help me and protect me from this horrible "real world" you know so much about! You talk a lot about lawyers, courts and judges but I doubt you've ever even been to a courtroom. To bring a case to a judge you need evidence. Where's the evidence that the GLBSE company ever took any money from you?

You can buy Bitcoins from an exchange, the exchange might be operating illegally, nobody knows yet as it has never gone to court. So it's possible you can show bank records of money going from you to a bitcoin exchange and get that Bitcoin exchange shut down, but there's nothing connecting the exchange to the company in question so where's the complaint? Are you going to show the judge your Bitcoin transaction logs? What proof have you got that the payment ID you sent the coins to were this "company" you're suing?

You can also get Bitcoins through mining, what if some of your coins are from mining? Are you going to go to court with a copy of your electricity bill and show them that?

More to the point, how are you even going to get the name and address of the person you want to sue??

Good luck with your retarded lawsuit, I hope you get everything you want out of it.

You're cute. You're talking about frontier mining contracts from the 1800's. At that time gold was a legally recognised currency, so they were in fact using money. Bitcoin is not a legally recognised currency.
Quote

And you are an idiot. Look a little more into google. This is common TODAY. You find gold somewhere, you can take a credit in gold to be paid back by the gold you mine. Not 1800.

Then, some people are stuck in 1800. Already heard of electricity?

You DO live obviously in your own world.

Just to help you get staretd, for example - the RoyalGold yearly balance sheet report lits quite a lot of financing they did that is TO BE PAID BACK IN GOLD - not USD. And yes, it lists amounts in ounces of gold to be paid to them, not in USD or any other currency. Even today, financing with asset return is common in certain industries. But then, this post likely is aclose to eral gold as you ever will come Wink

Just to help you get staretd, for example - the RoyalGold yearly balance sheet report lits quite a lot of financing they did that is TO BE PAID BACK IN GOLD - not USD. And yes, it lists amounts in ounces of gold to be paid to them, not in USD or any other currency. Even today, financing with asset return is common in certain industries.

Sorry, but we're not talking about a company based in dollars with a small part of its financing secured with asset return, we're talking about the entire business and investment model. SIN is entirely based on Bitcoins and trades in nothing but Bitcoins. It is impossible to invest in SIN using Dollars, and no dollars are mentioned anywhere in the company accounts.

Comparing a company floated on Bitcoins to a real business and expecting it to comply with all the laws of a real business is just stupid.

If real world business laws do apply to online-only virtual currency businesses, then please tell me then why all the EVE and WOW profit making guilds have not been closed down and the members arrested?

Quote
But then, this post likely is aclose to eral gold as you ever will come Wink

Classy comment, douchebag. I actually sold all my stock and commodity EFTs recently and traded everything for bullion, which was delivered last week, just before the price went up 8%. So fuck you.

Sorry, but we're not talking about a company based in dollars with a small part of its financing secured with asset return, we're talking about the entire business and investment model. SIN is entirely based on Bitcoins and trades in nothing but Bitcoins. It is impossible to invest in SIN using Dollars, and no dollars are mentioned anywhere in the company accounts.
It would be one thing if this "business" was based entirely on Bitcoins. But it's not. How do you think hardware is purchased and electrical bills are paid? Let me show you:

...
Money spent on new rigs (1): $1287.73
Money spent on electric bill: $176.26
Total spent: $1463.99
All the bitcoins are converted into cold hard dollars. That alone right there triggers all sorts of laws & regulations. Unless he's paying income tax, etc., this "company" is very much in legal trouble.


I am neither snotty nor arrogant.

It is quite shocking how quickly you form judgements of members of this community.

Gratulations. You proove the ignorance of the masses.

it is quite obviousBTC have value - look at all the exchanges. Case prooven. It is quite clclear SIN oeprates with rel money. It is buying equipment and paying electrical bills to operate them. Point prooven. It is quite obvious he is running a business - pretending to be a share ompany and selling shares on an unregulated exchange to pay revenue. Point prooven.

You dont need to use money. For many many years for example MINING operations take CREDITS in GOLD - with the itnerest also paid in gold, from the mining proceeds. THis is legally totally tested ground.

EVERY company on GLBSE istrying to operate outsie the law.

now, here comes the real world: Noone cares whether or not YOU Are only interested in being protected by the state when you pay taxes there. Something goes wrong, someone sues, the state wont care about your arrogant snotty attitude. Any investor can sue on his local court possibly, and definitely in the court of residence of the SIN operator. Dont like that - well, as long as you are the judge in question that is as irrelevant as most american opinions are for the rest of the world. The court will take your not caring ass and make you pay.


Given all of the drama going on this thread lately... I would advise that shareholders try to avoid revealing Skepsidyne to any government and/or regulatory agency. Even if you plan on paying taxes, realize that others may not... Possibly including Tawsix.

Given all of the drama going on this thread lately... I would advise that shareholders try to avoid revealing Skepsidyne to any government and/or regulatory agency. Even if you plan on paying taxes, realize that others may not... Possibly including Tawsix.

Ah - reality check. How would you do that? It is quite public already and trackable. You as shareholder may not be, he as company is. And it is quite trackable - I can easily get a warrant to his identity based on the bitcoins mined. And I know which addresses he uses by buying one share and getting a payout.

This will get nasty, especially if it gets larger. Or if someone looses a lot of money and sues.

"I can easily get a warrant to his identity based on the bitcoins mined."

Does mining Bitcoins reveal the identity of the miner ?

"I know which addresses he uses by buying one share and getting a payout."

What addresses do you obtain by doing this ?

Given all of the drama going on this thread lately... I would advise that shareholders try to avoid revealing Skepsidyne to any government and/or regulatory agency. Even if you plan on paying taxes, realize that others may not... Possibly including Tawsix.

Ah - reality check. How would you do that? It is quite public already and trackable. You as shareholder may not be, he as company is. And it is quite trackable - I can easily get a warrant to his identity based on the bitcoins mined. And I know which addresses he uses by buying one share and getting a payout.

This will get nasty, especially if it gets larger. Or if someone looses a lot of money and sues.

"I can easily get a warrant to his identity based on the bitcoins mined."

Does mining Bitcoins reveal the identity of the miner ?

"I know which addresses he uses by buying one share and getting a payout."

What addresses do you obtain by doing this ?

Given all of the drama going on this thread lately... I would advise that shareholders try to avoid revealing Skepsidyne to any government and/or regulatory agency. Even if you plan on paying taxes, realize that others may not... Possibly including Tawsix.

Ah - reality check. How would you do that? It is quite public already and trackable. You as shareholder may not be, he as company is. And it is quite trackable - I can easily get a warrant to his identity based on the bitcoins mined. And I know which addresses he uses by buying one share and getting a payout.

This will get nasty, especially if it gets larger. Or if someone looses a lot of money and sues.

Yeah I wonder if he's realised that, the share payments are coming from a miner, so they're fresh, you know, not bought from an exchange, no previous transaction history.

They are moved to an exchange though after that, so all you need is to ask there to which account transaction XYZ from Tawsix' mining income belongs. According to hash rates you just need to analyze all payouts from that pool which ones fit the best and you have it.

Ow guys, don't make such a fuss.
There is nothing illegal in what we're doing as long as you pay tax over your earnings.
And T. can deduct all hardware he buy's... so he would be a fool if he did not.
But he is rather young (I guess about 20) and my concern is more his inexperience in running a bizz.


Excuse me for interrupting. It seems you guys have a very misinformed individual amongst you.

For all of those who think BTC is a taxable commodity, you'd be wise to educate yourselves. http://www.libertariannews.org/2011/06/27/why-bitcoin-isnt-a-security-under-federal-securities-law/

For all of those who feel that the OP is breaking the law by creating a forum thread saying he is a company, please understand that at no point in US history has a business license or registration been necessary to sell anything, provide a service, or run a business that is not doing so in a previously regulated field that requires additional checks (dairy, pharmaceutical drugs, the list goes on.)

For all of those who think he is somehow breaking the law for making an income just because he is not a 'registered company', be it BTC or USD or the giant stone coins of the Yapp people, there is a space on your tax returns specifically allowing for "Miscellaneous and Uncategorized Income". In this, it could be categorized the same way mowing lawns would be, as petty cash.

For all of those who think asking people to invest in a private project, regardless the name of that project, unless there have been contracts broken, there is no law being broken here.

For those who think it is unwise for OP to learn more about taxation issues, please understand that although the likelihood of anything bad ever coming from this endeavor other than heat stroke is improbable at best, it never hurts to learn your local and federal business and tax laws.

For those who seem to think that warrants are given to civilians based on forum flame wars, that individuals running an unregistered business off of the internet (or as most would see this, a profiteering hobby) where they invest their own money (or other peoples') are breaking any US laws, and that there will ever be any realistic need for a court case (which by the way would most certainly be a small claims case and therefor monetarily negligible both to file and defend), please stop drinking the cool-aid and exit the bus at the next stop.


Excuse me for interrupting. It seems you guys have a very misinformed individual amongst you.

For all of those who think ....

For all of those who feel that...

For all of those who think he ...

For all of those who think ...

For those who think ...

For those who seem to think ...

Sjeezs... relax man. Please don't complicate things that are simple and obvious.

Personally, I am glad he conclusively debunked the FUD that was being spread - there are enough problems without existing / new investors being put off by such crap.

Excuse me for interrupting. It seems you guys have a very misinformed individual amongst you.

For all of those who think ....

For all of those who feel that...

For all of those who think he ...

For all of those who think ...

For those who think ...

For those who seem to think ...

Sjeezs... relax man. Please don't complicate things that are simple and obvious.

Personally, I am glad he conclusively debunked the FUD that was being spread - there are enough problems without existing / new investors being put off by such crap.

Yeah you are right and mr. Wright too... I guess I'm allergic to the tone of voice he is using.

Yeah you are right and mr. Wright too... I guess I'm allergic to the tone of voice he is using.

Sorry. Maybe you smell my dad. He's a mailman. huk huk Cheesy

Yeah you are right and mr. Wright too... I guess I'm allergic to the tone of voice he is using.

Sorry. Maybe you smell my dad. He's a mailman. huk huk Cheesy

BAAARFFF.. SNeeeze,  nope, it's you. Maybe you were a cat in your previous life.

But let's Kiss in pm...

[ONTOPIC PLEASE]

For all of those who think asking people to invest in a private project, regardless the name of that project, unless there have been contracts broken, there is no law being broken here.

Exccept it is not a private project, dumbo. Know, GLBSE etc. being a "stock exchange" does not make it a private invesmtment.

Look up the SEC regulations for failitating public investments and seeking investors.

The rest of the arguments is of a similar quality. You just failed logic 101 for half dumbos, obviously.

NetTecture (and others), be civil, there is no need for personal attacks. Continueing to do so will get you suspended.

NetTecture (and others), be civil, there is no need for personal attacks. Continueing to do so will get you suspended.

I refuse to even get involved at this point. I am slightly concerned about the lack of activity from tawsix though. Has this all got a bit much for him?

I refuse to even get involved at this point.

That is ok. Some understanding of flawed logic in your side showing up finally.

Quote
I am slightly concerned about the lack of activity from tawsix though. Has this all got a bit much for him?

Wel, technically at this point SIN has prooven to be in breach of contract (i.e. his own statement how the company would be handled). Under normal circumstances it would be the time to send a friendly reminder attached with a cost note from a lawyer to please adhere to contracts.

This shows one significant structural problem with GLBSE companies so far: they all are tiny by any regular means. Sosmall they dont have any infrastructure - no phone, no personell etc. Maybe he just hat an accident or has an emergency? Noone knows - but then, there is noone to replace him.


This shows one significant structural problem with GLBSE companies so far: they all are tiny by any regular means. Sosmall they dont have any infrastructure - no phone, no personell etc. Maybe he just hat an accident or has an emergency? Noone knows - but then, there is noone to replace him.


This is not a problem. Judge me by my size do you?

All those things, extra staff, phones etc. are not needed to run a small, tight ship. The size of the company doesn't matter, what does matter is whether it is profitable. This is micro-investment come true.

Many companies/startup would go out of business tomorrow if one of the founders was hit by a bus, they're a key man, and there are plenty of one or two man operations worth millions in the world.

Also GLBSE is not the NYSE, we don't do valuations of billions(yet), what we do do however is allow people to make small investments at almost 0 overhead (good luck doing that with a share broker or even stock market trading website).

Secondly we allow people with great ideas and drive to get the capital they need to get going. GLBSE itself is an investment of myself and several others. You can see the share of BG. It is to allow the most efficient allocation of resources available.

NetTecture ...

Why are you so determined to undermine the efforts of others?

So far you have come across as an insulting and angry person.

I suspect that either you feel threatened by the competition one or more of the GLBSE listed companies represent or your own Bitcoin related business has already failed and feel they are responsible in some way.

If you have no intention of investing in SIN then kindly leave the thread so that others who want to / have can conduct our business in peace.

We are not children and are more than aware of the risks we take by investing.

Start your own thread if you want. I'll happily debate this stuff with you.

Neitner nor.

* My own bitcion busienss can not fail because there is none. You cant run a bitcoin business unless lets say 75% of all income and expenditure isi n BTC - which curently wont work. I am accumulating bitcoin.
* Sorry, I would LOVE to invest into GLBSE companies, including one or two mining outfits. Just it seems there are nont worth investing. IBB - a childs joke (balance sheet is what - 500 USD?). SIN - the largest so far obviously not following up with it's obligations and telling me not to invest a SMALL amount of money (which i could just buying shares) as it would blow the capacity.

I am more fearfull that GLBSE will blow up legally at one point and / or the companies will. WHich may be bad. What is needed is some sensible business putting something up in a fully legal way. And no, dont even look into my direction - I wont take third party funds even if my life depends on it, matter of principle.

I would love SIN to actually live up to it's potential and turn into a viable investment. I would be the first to buy a couple of thousand USD in shares.

Neitner nor.

* My own bitcion busienss can not fail because there is none. You cant run a bitcoin business unless lets say 75% of all income and expenditure isi n BTC - which curently wont work. I am accumulating bitcoin.
* Sorry, I would LOVE to invest into GLBSE companies, including one or two mining outfits. Just it seems there are nont worth investing. IBB - a childs joke (balance sheet is what - 500 USD?). SIN - the largest so far obviously not following up with it's obligations and telling me not to invest a SMALL amount of money (which i could just buying shares) as it would blow the capacity.

I am more fearfull that GLBSE will blow up legally at one point and / or the companies will. WHich may be bad. What is needed is some sensible business putting something up in a fully legal way. And no, dont even look into my direction - I wont take third party funds even if my life depends on it, matter of principle.

I would love SIN to actually live up to it's potential and turn into a viable investment. I would be the first to buy a couple of thousand USD in shares.

Is it possible for a Mod to remove all these argument posts from this thread and start a new one called "Are bitcoin stock exchange businesses legal" or something?

I am so sorry for contributing to this stupid argument.  Roll Eyes

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August 16, 2011, 03:05:45 PM
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and WTF is this quote mess you have here?

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August 16, 2011, 03:13:36 PM
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It is a response to a request to allow a thread that was off topiced to get back on topic without the above discussion impacting it.

Please feel free to ignore this thread completely - I expect it only to be of significant interest to those who have been quoted, if at all.

and WTF is this quote mess you have here?

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August 18, 2011, 10:11:56 AM
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Hmmm,,, I find that thread quite shallow and pedantic. If this were a court case I would rule in favor of Ten98
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