A possibility in China

[lewistec]

Over the last several months we have seen buyers in China driving the price well over 7000 yuan, we had several bullish news articles published out of China, e.g. Baidu accepting BTC, things were looking very positive for BTC in China, now a few weeks later, everything has turned around, apparently the government is restricting third party payment companies and there is talk of the government completely clamping down on BTC. Now lets get to the point, assuming there are some very big players/holders of BTC in China, who obviously have connections to the media outlets and the biggest BTC exchange in the world, is it not possible that this whole rise and crash over the last few months is just massive pump and dump, aided by Chinese media outlets, and actually the government hasn't changed its stance on BTC at all. Are the same people who drove the price to 7000 yuan now driving it down? Was the removal of the third party payment processors simply part of this plan?

[MatTheCat]

Over the last several months we have seen buyers in China driving the price well over 7000 yuan, we had several bullish news articles published out of China, e.g. Baidu accepting BTC, things were looking very positive for BTC in China, now a few weeks later, everything has turned around, apparently the government is restricting third party payment companies and there is talk of the government completely clamping down on BTC. Now lets get to the point, assuming there are some very big players/holders of BTC in China, who obviously have connections to the media outlets and the biggest BTC exchange in the world, is it not possible that this whole rise and crash over the last few months is just massive pump and dump, aided by Chinese media outlets, and actually the government hasn't changed its stance on BTC at all. Are the same people who drove the price to 7000 yuan now driving it down? Was the removal of the third party payment processors simply part of this plan?

Entirely plausible since we are talking about a highly centralised command and control political entity here, who 'permitted' tons of Pro Bitcoin propaganda to go out via various state controlled media channels, before state institutions started to turn viciously against Bitcoin just a couple of weeks later.

[zimmah]

If they want to destroy the dollar by using bitcoin, they may as well use some dirty market manipulation to obtain more bitcoin from panic sellers.

all the more reason not to panic sell.

The price WILL eventually rise anyway.

[accord01]

Unlikely... actually there is no chance this is the case.  If this was the case, they would have promoted it A LOT more and bulked it up A LOT more.  All they did was inquire what bitcoin is publicly, like Q and A session.  This market cap is only 10 billion.  Lol.  There is market manipulation in China on trillion dollar industries.  This is bread crumbs.

lol @ this naive thinking.

[GeniuSxBoY]

What does Bitcoin have to do with the price of tea in China?

[ringsting]

Almost certainly loads of insider trading..it's a pretty normal way of life here.

That being said it is very unlikely that they will pump it again.  The Chinese government more than anything want control and public order and bitcoin has the potential to cause huge social problems and economic problems for them and so I can't see them relaxing the rules anytime soon.

[MatTheCat]

Almost certainly loads of insider trading..it's a pretty normal way of life here.

That being said it is very unlikely that they will pump it again.  The Chinese government more than anything want control and public order and bitcoin has the potential to cause huge social problems and economic problems for them and so I can't see them relaxing the rules anytime soon.

How do you manage to get on here?

Is Chinese internet not meant to be firewalled out its tits?

[Siegfried]

Almost certainly loads of insider trading..it's a pretty normal way of life here.

That being said it is very unlikely that they will pump it again.  The Chinese government more than anything want control and public order and bitcoin has the potential to cause huge social problems and economic problems for them and so I can't see them relaxing the rules anytime soon.

How do you manage to get on here?

Is Chinese internet not meant to be firewalled out its tits?

I am not aware of any bitcoin sites being blocked in China.

[ringsting]

Almost certainly loads of insider trading..it's a pretty normal way of life here.

That being said it is very unlikely that they will pump it again.  The Chinese government more than anything want control and public order and bitcoin has the potential to cause huge social problems and economic problems for them and so I can't see them relaxing the rules anytime soon.

How do you manage to get on here?

Is Chinese internet not meant to be firewalled out its tits?

This site is not blocked and anyway it is a pretty trivial thing for a foreigner to get past the controls.

[NUFCrichard]

The market cap is only a few billion.  Bitcoin can and will rise without them, google seems to be going ok..

[oda.krell]

Yo, kindergarten kids. It's okay that you don't know shit about China. Maybe you'll learn more about it when you go to school.

But in the meantime, maybe stop making yourself look like complete idiots with your sweeping generalizations about the Chinese government (basically fascists!), the Chinese people (obedient worker ants! only good at copying our stuff!) (not said in this thread, but the wall observer thread) and Chinese media (propaganda! nothing but propaganda!).

To give you a feel for what you guys sometimes sound like when you discuss China, go watch a propaganda flick like "Zeitgeist", and consider how it relates to your mental representation of the United States:

If it kind of matches what you think of the US and the world, in all its glorious, paranoid naivete, then carry on. Your understanding of China is good enough.

If however you cringe about simplistic bullshit like Zeitgeist, be aware that your mental image of China seems to have about the same complexity.

[ringsting]

Yo, kindergarten kids. It's okay that you don't know shit about China. Maybe you'll learn more about it when you go to school.

But in the meantime, maybe stop making yourself look like complete idiots with your sweeping generalizations about the Chinese government (basically fascists!), the Chinese people (obedient worker ants! only good at copying our stuff!) (not said in this thread, but the wall observer thread) and Chinese media (propaganda! nothing but propaganda!).

To give you a feel for what you guys sometimes sound like when you discuss China, go watch a propaganda flick like "Zeitgeist", and consider how it relates to your mental representation of the United States:

If it kind of matches what you think of the US and the world, in all its glorious, paranoid naivete, then carry on. Your understanding of China is good enough.

If however you cringe about simplistic bullshit like Zeitgeist, be aware that your mental image of China seems to have about the same complexity.

I have lived in China for over 7 years, I speak fluent Chinese and own a business here.  I don't know shit?

[oda.krell]

I have lived in China for over 7 years, I speak fluent Chinese and own a business here.  I don't know shit?

This (not yours)

... is it not possible that this whole rise and crash over the last few months is just massive pump and dump, aided by Chinese media outlets, and actually the government hasn't changed its stance on BTC at all. Are the same people who drove the price to 7000 yuan now driving it down? Was the removal of the third party payment processors simply part of this plan?

plus this (also not yours)

Entirely plausible since we are talking about a highly centralised command and control political entity here, who 'permitted' tons of Pro Bitcoin propaganda to go out via various state controlled media channels, before state institutions started to turn viciously against Bitcoin just a couple of weeks later.

is bullshit, unless you have any kind of evidence for it. Otherwise: "the rally from 15 to 260 and the subsequent crash in April were all just part of Bernanke's masterplan to destroy the BTC system from within" is a plausible scenario as well.

[seriouscoin]

oda.... welcome to my ignore dumpfck

[oda.krell]

oda.... welcome to my ignore dumpfck

I know that username from somewhere... Right, remember now: the guy who in the wall thread argued that the PRC is still a "communist state" in any meaningful sense.

Somehow, I feel flattered by that ignore :D

[BittBurger]

Over the last several months we have seen buyers in China driving the price well over 7000 yuan, we had several bullish news articles published out of China, e.g. Baidu accepting BTC, things were looking very positive for BTC in China, now a few weeks later, everything has turned around, apparently the government is restricting third party payment companies and there is talk of the government completely clamping down on BTC. Now lets get to the point, assuming there are some very big players/holders of BTC in China, who obviously have connections to the media outlets and the biggest BTC exchange in the world, is it not possible that this whole rise and crash over the last few months is just massive pump and dump, aided by Chinese media outlets, and actually the government hasn't changed its stance on BTC at all. Are the same people who drove the price to 7000 yuan now driving it down? Was the removal of the third party payment processors simply part of this plan?

Prtty much anytime you feel the urge to create huge conspiracy theories in your mind, its almost always wrong.  You have to think about the insane amounts of effort such a huge undertaking would require.  Reality is a lot more complicated than this.

[TooCasual]

Yo, kindergarten kids. It's okay that you don't know shit about China. Maybe you'll learn more about it when you go to school.

But in the meantime, maybe stop making yourself look like complete idiots with your sweeping generalizations about the Chinese government (basically fascists!), the Chinese people (obedient worker ants! only good at copying our stuff!) (not said in this thread, but the wall observer thread) and Chinese media (propaganda! nothing but propaganda!).

To give you a feel for what you guys sometimes sound like when you discuss China, go watch a propaganda flick like "Zeitgeist", and consider how it relates to your mental representation of the United States:

If it kind of matches what you think of the US and the world, in all its glorious, paranoid naivete, then carry on. Your understanding of China is good enough.

If however you cringe about simplistic bullshit like Zeitgeist, be aware that your mental image of China seems to have about the same complexity.

I have lived in China for over 7 years, I speak fluent Chinese and own a business here.  I don't know shit?

Haha.. Awesome.  Almost fell outta my chair  (what a retort).  I think the interwebs walls o fire surround north Korea...

TC

[MatTheCat]

is bullshit, unless you have any kind of evidence for it. Otherwise: "the rally from 15 to 260 and the subsequent crash in April were all just part of Bernanke's masterplan to destroy the BTC system from within" is a plausible scenario as well.

There are all kinds of things that go on in the world that I don't have evidence for....doesn't mean that they aint going on.

If there is one axiom in finance that history has proven to be true, it is that:

'The Big Boys Always Win!'

If Bitcoin is destined to become massive, do you think that the early mining geeks are going to be the ones who are controlling it? Not a fkn chance. If Bitcoin is destined to become massive, then it will be the Big Boys who control it.

I don't know if you have noticed, but there is an economic war going on the world, where the US is trying to remain on top by crashing their hyperinflated economy down on top of all the other global economies. The Chinese know this, and currently greatly exposed to the US dollar, and are moving out of it wherever they can, hoarding every ounce of gold they can get their hands on (they will be loving the depressed state of the PMs market right now), and are setting up trades deals in other currencies whenever and wherever they can. Bitcoin is just another asset, with huge potential. Do you think they don't realise this? Whilst they may want to avoid allowing their citizens to use Bitcoin to undermime their financial system, don't you think that the Chinese would like to take control of Bitcoin? If Bitcoin is indeed destined to become huge, don't you think that any government wouldnt have an interest in having a large stake in Bitcoin? Perhaps the Chinese have been intentionally ramping and crashing Bitcoin, in order to quietly take control of the market? Perhaps, perhaps not. But the big-boys don't get to be and remain big boys by not being able to see and exploit what is coming and one thing is for sure, the Chinese government have the whole Bitcoin market hanging by a thread at the moment, and can make or break the Bitcoin with any announcement they happen to make towards it.

The whole idea of 'governments and bankers hating Bitcoin' is over. The notion of Bitcoin being an anarchistic force punching holes into the financial establishment is officially dead, from the moment the Ben Bernanke and the Senate Committee stated that Bitcoin was a valuable financial product.

[Lloydie]

is bullshit, unless you have any kind of evidence for it. Otherwise: "the rally from 15 to 260 and the subsequent crash in April were all just part of Bernanke's masterplan to destroy the BTC system from within" is a plausible scenario as well.

There are all kinds of things that go on in the world that I don't have evidence for....doesn't mean that they aint going on.

If there is one axiom in finance that history has proven to be true, it is that:

'The Big Boys Always Win!'

If Bitcoin is destined to become massive, do you think that the early mining geeks are going to be the ones who are controlling it? Not a fkn chance. If Bitcoin is destined to become massive, then it will be the Big Boys who control it.

I don't know if you have noticed, but there is an economic war going on the world, where the US is trying to remain on top by crashing their hyperinflated economy down on top of all the other global economies. The Chinese know this, and currently greatly exposed to the US dollar, and are moving out of it wherever they can, hoarding every ounce of gold they can get their hands on (they will be loving the depressed state of the PMs market right now), and are setting up trades deals in other currencies whenever and wherever they can. Bitcoin is just another asset, with huge potential. Do you think they don't realise this? Whilst they may want to avoid allowing their citizens to use Bitcoin to undermime their financial system, don't you think that the Chinese would like to take control of Bitcoin? If Bitcoin is indeed destined to become huge, don't you think that any government wouldnt have an interest in having a large stake in Bitcoin? Perhaps the Chinese have been intentionally ramping and crashing Bitcoin, in order to quietly take control of the market? Perhaps, perhaps not. But the big-boys don't get to be and remain big boys by not being able to see and exploit what is coming and one thing is for sure, the Chinese government have the whole Bitcoin market hanging by a thread at the moment, and can make or break the Bitcoin with any announcement they happen to make towards it.

The whole idea of 'governments and bankers hating Bitcoin' is over. The notion of Bitcoin being an anarchistic force punching holes into the financial establishment is officially dead, from the moment the Ben Bernanke and the Senate Committee stated that Bitcoin was a valuable financial product.

This is plausible but in the context of a USD 8 Trillion economy versus the USD 10 Billion market cap of Btc, I think maybe it's a little too early to think about SAFE or SASAC involvement.  More likely, some local govt official somewhere or a small bank might be dabbling.

[HairyMaclairy]

Right, remember now: the guy who in the wall thread argued that the PRC is still a "communist state" in any meaningful sense.

It is a communist state in the meaningful sense that it is run by the Chinese Communist Party according to socialism with Chinese characteristics. 

Any deeper analysis is just semantics.