Anon136 (OP)
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December 19, 2013, 07:55:24 AM |
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Its a simple idea, leverage the advantages of the devision of labor in order to overcome government meddling.
The exchange would open up shop probably in either los-angales or new york and would only accept deposits in the form of cash at the front counter. The exchange would be safe from a myriad of legal trappings which would allow them to focus 100% on the service they are intended to provide and the market could innovate highly decentralized mechanisms of getting cash from one side of the country and into the front door of the building. Decentralized community of peers working within the framework of a reputations systems could provide the money transmission instead of some big payment processing company. As an example, suppose we have two brothers, one lives next to the exchange and another 1000 miles away. The one brother could take payments and the other would make deposits and when ever they visited each other periodically they would clear out the debt between each other, always operating within the black or gray market.
There may be a really good reason why this doesn't exist and i just havn't thought about it yet.
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Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited? |
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beetcoin
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December 19, 2013, 08:11:24 AM |
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because you'd have to comply with a shit ton of rules and regulations.
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wumpus
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December 19, 2013, 08:15:00 AM |
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Isn't this the idea behind the bitcoin ATMs and/or localbitcoins?
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s1lverbox
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December 19, 2013, 08:17:40 AM |
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because you'd have to comply with a shit ton of rules and regulations.
....created by fat belly wankers to protect them from ideas like that. BTC made huge impact on their decisions. people know they don't need USD to pay for something in whole world. that's what's scared them the most. |
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empoweoqwj
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December 19, 2013, 08:50:41 AM |
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Its a simple idea, leverage the advantages of the devision of labor in order to overcome government meddling.
The exchange would open up shop probably in either los-angales or new york and would only accept deposits in the form of cash at the front counter. The exchange would be safe from a myriad of legal trappings which would allow them to focus 100% on the service they are intended to provide and the market could innovate highly decentralized mechanisms of getting cash from one side of the country and into the front door of the building. Decentralized community of peers working within the framework of a reputations systems could provide the money transmission instead of some big payment processing company. As an example, suppose we have two brothers, one lives next to the exchange and another 1000 miles away. The one brother could take payments and the other would make deposits and when ever they visited each other periodically they would clear out the debt between each other, always operating within the black or gray market.
There may be a really good reason why this doesn't exist and i just havn't thought about it yet.
Because one shop would have to spend bucketloads of money complying with anti-money laundering regulations. Bitcoin ATMs solve the problem in a much more economical way. |
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jojo69
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diamond-handed zealot
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December 19, 2013, 08:54:54 AM |
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Just interject a little tidbit here that might be relevant.
NoCal weed growers I know of say that getting the product to NY has not been much of a problem lately, but they have been taking crippling losses getting the cash back Westbound.
I like your idea, but I would be very wary about the actual shipments of fiat.
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This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
Censorship of e-gold was easy. Censorship of Bitcoin will be… entertaining.
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empoweoqwj
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December 19, 2013, 09:04:19 AM |
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Just interject a little tidbit here that might be relevant.
NoCal weed growers I know of say that getting the product to NY has not been much of a problem lately, but they have been taking crippling losses getting the cash back Westbound.
I like your idea, but I would be very wary about the actual shipments of fiat.
Lost me .... how is this relevant to a bitcoin shop? |
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jojo69
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diamond-handed zealot
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December 19, 2013, 09:08:49 AM |
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Just interject a little tidbit here that might be relevant.
NoCal weed growers I know of say that getting the product to NY has not been much of a problem lately, but they have been taking crippling losses getting the cash back Westbound.
I like your idea, but I would be very wary about the actual shipments of fiat.
Lost me .... how is this relevant to a bitcoin shop? from the OP "they would clear out the debt between each other, always operating within the black or gray market" so the proposal is actually for a noncompliant exchange, a great idea IMO, but the fiat settlements would be vulnerable to seizure by the state, just as any other black market proceeds are, and I have it on good authority that the state has become rather adept at this seizure. |
This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
Censorship of e-gold was easy. Censorship of Bitcoin will be… entertaining.
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empoweoqwj
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December 19, 2013, 09:11:44 AM |
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Opening up a bitcoin shop in New York??? Give it 3 days ........
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jojo69
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diamond-handed zealot
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December 19, 2013, 09:14:25 AM |
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3 days...till what exactly?
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This is not some pseudoeconomic post-modern Libertarian cult, it's an un-led, crowd-sourced mega startup organized around mutual self-interest where problems, whether of the theoretical or purely practical variety, are treated as temporary and, ultimately, solvable.
Censorship of e-gold was easy. Censorship of Bitcoin will be… entertaining.
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empoweoqwj
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December 19, 2013, 09:18:44 AM |
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3 days...till what exactly?
Till you'd have to explain to New York authorities what the purpose of the shop accepting all that cash was for. And all done without going through any proper channels to set up the business. Give it a go, by all means. |
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QuestionAuthority
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You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
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December 19, 2013, 09:23:49 AM |
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The penalty for violating interstate banking and branching law is either not less than 20 years in prison a $10,000,000 fine or both. Interstate drug trafficking law is either not less than 10 years in prison a $250,000 fine or both. It would be less damaging to your future and your wallet if you just drove drugs between states for profit.
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Anon136 (OP)
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December 19, 2013, 04:48:05 PM |
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not a shop. im not talking about a store. im talking about something like mtgox or bitstamp. except inorder to avoid so many of the regulations they only take cash. since they would never touch the banking system in anyway i dont think they would even be under the jurisdiction of FINCEN and i dont think they would have to comply with AML regulations at all.
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Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited? |
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GigaCoin
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Giga
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December 19, 2013, 07:47:09 PM |
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not a shop. im not talking about a store. im talking about something like mtgox or bitstamp. except inorder to avoid so many of the regulations they only take cash. since they would never touch the banking system in anyway i dont think they would even be under the jurisdiction of FINCEN and i dont think they would have to comply with AML regulations at all.
yeah a shop would be a regulation nightmare at this stage, until fincen or whoever decides what they want to do with bitcoin i guess a shop is not v practical. Even if you have an online xchange that only takes cash, 1. where would people come to deposit cash ? like u meet them in the street and stuff ? , 2. Even if you have like a shop or office, end of the day the cash will go to your bank account (unless u put it under your pillow but that doesn't make sense) lot of cash inflow to your account will raise alarms and then before you know it swat is raiding your home trashing everything |
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t1000
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December 19, 2013, 08:08:55 PM |
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Can foreign exchange shops do bitcoin exchanging on the side?
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QuestionAuthority
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December 19, 2013, 08:12:25 PM |
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Can foreign exchange shops do bitcoin exchanging on the side?
Anyone can do Bitcoin exchanging if they're in compliance with local law. |
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t1000
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December 19, 2013, 08:18:27 PM |
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Can foreign exchange shops do bitcoin exchanging on the side?
Anyone can do Bitcoin exchanging if they're in compliance with local law. So that's perfect then isn't it? Legal forex shop operators already have the relevant licenses for trading currencies. I seem to remember whenever I go into forex shops the sales are done in cash.... |
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QuestionAuthority
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December 19, 2013, 08:28:07 PM |
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Can foreign exchange shops do bitcoin exchanging on the side?
Anyone can do Bitcoin exchanging if they're in compliance with local law. So that's perfect then isn't it? Legal forex shop operators already have the relevant licenses for trading currencies. I seem to remember whenever I go into forex shops the sales are done in cash.... Trading and exchanging are two different things. In the US forex traders, the individuals, need to be registered with NFA, CFTC and the SEC. That would mean every Bitcoin user would need to register. Bitcoin would also need to be legally considered currency but currently it's not. |
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t1000
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December 19, 2013, 08:32:37 PM |
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Also, most casinos sell chips for cash and pays cash for chips. (Where gambling is legal) If a casino offers to take bitcoins for chips and payouts in bitcoins on redeeming chips, then we have a way for fiat to enter and exit the cryptocurrencies market.
It doesn't have to be bitcoin they exchange for redeemed chips, it could be a casino alt-coin "for use on their online games", which could be exchanged for bitcoins on an online exchange.
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w1R903
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December 19, 2013, 08:33:18 PM |
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Because one shop would have to spend bucketloads of money complying with anti-money laundering regulations. Bitcoin ATMs solve the problem in a much more economical way.
What makes you think that FinCEN is going to consider Bitcoin ATMs to be exempt from AML? Believe me, they won't. That's why it's been so hard to get them going. But I agree that cash businesses also must comply with AML if they want to stay out of jail, BUT cash businesses don't have to put up with banks cutting them off at every turn. And if we develop our own clearing houses.... |
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