[Request] 1 Merit to become junior member and access to bounties sub

[cabalism13]

Merit requirement needs to be added for this rank, and it should be a tad more than 1 merit.

If all of the Bounty Managers will grab this kind of rule, then it should be a great to decrease the number of spammers and bots that usually make this looks like a non moderated forum.  And if it will turn out to be like this, I smell more posts to be reported again when the time comes.

A huge proportion of these users probably have little to no interest or knowledge of bitcoin either other than they just heard from their classmate/cousin/granny that you can make good money here hence why they're often completely clueless.

I once happened to be like this, someone thought me about this good earning forum but after being rejected so many times before I ended up getting more knowledge before making money into the bounties. I think some users will still be like me as the way I did before even if its wrong but still this will help them to eager to gain knowledge and experience through rejection.
Now, I spend my time on reading on many threads and this is kindly like my hobby now, especially if there is such an issue that makes me want to join the debate ^_^, I do loved hearing those millions of opinions ( I think I should take a BS on Psychology with this kind of perception )

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[pugman]

What do the people who operate these bounties think of the newbie invasion? Also, people should not be required to post in order to get paid; that's already against the rules.
An idea I had in this vein was that upon registration you'd have to pick one of two paths:
 - "I want to discuss things"
     = Banned from all money-making/spam-hotbed sections until Jr Member
 - "I want to make money"
     = Banned from the more serious sections until Jr Member
     = You have to pass a quiz before posting which tries to inform you about basic forum rules, how not to get banned, maybe some basic English knowledge, etc.

How about just enforcing bounty managers to do their goddamn job. They literally just sit around doing nothing and get paid for that. Damn those lucky bastards. Isn't that something everybody wants? Everything is handled by bots,the post counting and calculation of stakes and all that stuff.

Theymos,would you actually consider making an Official set of rules,for literally every section,board and clear out the misunderstandings all at once? And force the quiz for both the possible paths. Rules need to be followed,be it for bounties,be it for discussion.

And force bounty managers and all the airdrop managers to fill out the application within google forms and avoid spamming the forum. 4000+ bots infested one airdrop thread and later on,the bots themselves made a own thread and started spamming.

[LoyceV]

I think that the number of bots will not decrease, they will spam in other topics.

My thoughts exactly. I've already noticed an increase in useless post and plagiarism on the serious (tech) boards.

This can reduce the number of participants in bounty campaigns, which is good for us, but bad for the newcomers who signed up for the forum just because of this.

Bounties are big business. And I'm pretty sure most participants don't use one account only. Why would they, if they can earn 10 times more by spamming from 10 accounts?

You're right, 1 Merit earn is not so difficult, so the system has the right to life.

Only 15196 accounts have received 1 or more Merit points. That's less than 1% of all forum accounts.
The users posting in bounty threads, typically haven't earned a single merit.

Although, they are adding to the number of ad impressions on the site so...

The forum gets a good PR for them

I wouldn't call it "good PR". But if page hits are the goal, the bounty board could be totally separated from the rest of the forum. Don't require anything for posting there, but instead raise the requirements for the rest of the forum. And don't count bounty posts for activity and post count anymore.

What do the people who operate these bounties think of the newbie invasion?

I have partially managed a few campaigns, and if I'd run one on my own, I'd like it to be self-moderated with zero-tolerance for spam. But that would mean my campaign is gone from the first page in minutes, and 25 pages down the next day. The reduced exposure would make the campaign a failure, which means there is no market for running clean campaigns.
I'd love to reject all spammers, but it's currently not feasible to do.
Unless a clean campaign would be able to buy a sticky in the bounty thread, that could actually work to earn the forum some income from campaigns that actively fight spammers.
I do think a clean bounty campaign where people promote with real accounts instead of Facebook and Twitter accounts with 5000 other bounty spammers as friends and followers would be a better way to promote something.

Also, people should not be required to post in order to get paid; that's already against the rules.

But it isn't enforced, so they keep doing it. Or they find a loophole posting "proof of whatever", or "facebook/twitter.com/myspamaccount"-links.
Would it be an option to "reset" that board, close all threads, and enforce strict rules on new threads from now on? Make all threads there self-moderated by default, and close all threads that don't clean up spam within 24 hours.

An idea I had in this vein was that upon registration you'd have to pick one of two paths:
 - "I want to discuss things"
     = Banned from all money-making/spam-hotbed sections until Jr Member
 - "I want to make money"
     = Banned from the more serious sections until Jr Member
     = You have to pass a quiz before posting which tries to inform you about basic forum rules, how not to get banned, maybe some basic English knowledge, etc. (Quizzes are pointless to stop dedicated spammers, since an answer key will quickly be compiled, but it may help in cases where clueless people are ending up here.)

Playing devil's advocate: "so you're saying I just have to create 2 accounts instantly to be allowed to do both?"

As an alternative, may I suggest to put every newbie (including me in a sandbox section of the forum?
Reputable members can enter that sandbox section and give merit to newbies who post reasonable things.

It's been suggested before (reinstate Newbie jail), but I doubt many reputable members will be willing to waste their time shifting through thousands of spampost just to find one post worth meriting. I certainly won't do it, every time I try to find a Newbie to merit, I end up reporting them to be banned.

Can't hurt to try something like this. At the very least, upon sign-up users should be required to read the rules and linked to some helpful guides like the Activity FAQ and how to earn here etc so it'll stop the same old questions being asked time and time again (and usually in the wrong section).

Most people will just click "yes I've read the rules" instantly. Barely anybody reads EULAs, partially caused by the fact that they're too long and there are too many of them.

How about just enforcing bounty managers to do their goddamn job. They literally just sit around doing nothing and get paid for that. Damn those lucky bastards.

It gives a perverse incentive to everybody involved: it's cheaper to run, less work, more exposure, and as a bonus: nobody complains! Unlike when you reject spammers and cheaters, which means you spend many hours running the campaign, and as a result you can expect people complaining.

Another thought: charge amount X (say 100$) to open a thread on the bounty board. Use that money to pay moderators.
The thread owner will still be required to stop spam, and if Y (say 50) posts in his thread get deleted by moderators, his thread is closed.

[coinlocket$]

How about just enforcing bounty managers to do their goddamn job. They literally just sit around doing nothing and get paid for that. Damn those lucky bastards. Isn't that something everybody wants? Everything is handled by bots,the post counting and calculation of stakes and all that stuff.

Theymos,would you actually consider making an Official set of rules,for literally every section,board and clear out the misunderstandings all at once? And force the quiz for both the possible paths. Rules need to be followed,be it for bounties,be it for discussion.

And force bounty managers and all the airdrop managers to fill out the application within google forms and avoid spamming the forum. 4000+ bots infested one airdrop thread and later on,the bots themselves made a own thread and started spamming.

Yes man, you right I find abusers in almost every bounty, some of reports are here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3054205.msg31449020#msg31449020 (reported so far around 200 abusers/multi/scammers) and guess what? They still have stacks!
The sad part is that I find the cheats only posting my work without searching them, if I really start looking for them I could find hundreds of cheaters but I'm not paid to do the job of a manager
Many managers simply do not care and the reason it's clear, they works a couple of days a month and take a lot of money with a rough job.
(Some managers are really good on what they do)
I have cool ideas to improve the quality of bounties and one day I will post them.

[Welsh]

What do the people who operate these bounties think of the newbie invasion? Also, people should not be required to post in order to get paid; that's already against the rules.

An idea I had in this vein was that upon registration you'd have to pick one of two paths:
 - "I want to discuss things"
     = Banned from all money-making/spam-hotbed sections until Jr Member
 - "I want to make money"
     = Banned from the more serious sections until Jr Member
     = You have to pass a quiz before posting which tries to inform you about basic forum rules, how not to get banned, maybe some basic English knowledge, etc. (Quizzes are pointless to stop dedicated spammers, since an answer key will quickly be compiled, but it may help in cases where clueless people are ending up here.)

I would suggest allowing them to still post in the Beginners section, and allow them to accumulate merit points. You could then increase the requirement above from Jr Member to Member as I feel it's still too easy to reach Jr Member. I think the quiz is a somewhat good idea, and randomizing the order of the questions/checkboxes would likely prevent certain automated bots from answering the questions. At least then it would require them to make a more sophisticated bot to actually bypass the system.

I'm sure Jetcash would be interested in helping with the English knowledge part.

[InvoKing]

What do the people who operate these bounties think of the newbie invasion?

If they didn't create a self-moderated topic then they can't delete it ofc but at least they should report the spammy posts in their topic.
And at this point, as stated, enforcing self-moderated topics for bounties isn't a bad idea. Let them assume their responsibility.

An idea I had in this vein was that upon registration you'd have to pick one of two paths:
 - "I want to discuss things"
     = Banned from all money-making/spam-hotbed sections until Jr Member
 - "I want to make money"
     = Banned from the more serious sections until Jr Member
     = You have to pass a quiz before posting which tries to inform you about basic forum rules, how not to get banned, maybe some basic English knowledge, etc. (Quizzes are pointless to stop dedicated spammers, since an answer key will quickly be compiled, but it may help in cases where clueless people are ending up here.)

Ok, it may work, we need to generate many questions, same question could be asked in different manners, it needs to be shown one by one so it may confuse them a little bit.

[venky15921]

Hi, i was looking at the patrol page lately and I was surprised by the amount of spam, it is worse than i though by far since I rarely visit it.

My request is to force newbies to obtain at least 1 Merit point to become junior member + you must be junior member or more to post in the bounties sub.

Some will say this will have a negative impact on new users, well 1 Merit point in 1 month shouldn't be that hard imo, no?
Else, I have an alternative solution, no need for that merit point to become a junior member but force everyone to have at least 1 Merit to post in bounties.
This will cut the amount of spam and will make bots useless.

Yes, if i think the way you think then it is right but nowadays people buy merits so the thing that you are saying may not work . There are hundreds of spams that have been given 10+ merit .

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3032134.msg32216177#msg32216177

[criz2fer]

Reset could be a possible solution.

By means of logging out every one and answer all the questions. These's could take an ample time to delete all the threads that are incorporated with the questions that will be present in the quiz.

I strongly agree to LoyceV's suggestion. All of them were already discuss on other topics here in meta. If none of these could implemented soon more and more spammers will be born.(devil's to be born  )

[Raypok]

Altough i started here on the forum with applying for bounties, upping my learning curve, i see the problems that come with these contests. I think that the only real solution is to disable the reply function on the Bounty pages. Only give room for the Announcement of a Bounty with links etc but let the actual Bounty tasks, reports and whatever outside this forum. There are already bountycampaign sites that take care of everything (Bountyhive as example). There are also projects that built there own bounty campaign site and run it succesfully (Bethereum or Aelf as example). That leaves the problem with the signature bounty, for that i suggest starting at member level. Let forum members proof themselves worthy by spending time here and making quality posts to reach member status. I think with these suggestions you filter out a lot of spammers, multiple accounts etc. Basically giving the problem back to the overheated ICO market, let them sort it out, but not in this forum. Keep going forward!

With regards   

[Emilyp]

It will be nice. Before now, I didn't even know a newbie don't need any merit to rank up to Jr member. It will even help to restrict multiple new accounts aiming to rank upto Jr member

[InvoKing]

It will be nice. Before now, I didn't even know a newbie don't need any merit to rank up to Jr member. It will even help to restrict multiple new accounts aiming to rank upto Jr member

Take a look here to get more informations :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178608.0

[paxmao]

What do the people who operate these bounties think of the newbie invasion? Also, people should not be required to post in order to get paid; that's already against the rules.

An idea I had in this vein was that upon registration you'd have to pick one of two paths:
 - "I want to discuss things"
     = Banned from all money-making/spam-hotbed sections until Jr Member
 - "I want to make money"
     = Banned from the more serious sections until Jr Member
     = You have to pass a quiz before posting which tries to inform you about basic forum rules, how not to get banned, maybe some basic English knowledge, etc. (Quizzes are pointless to stop dedicated spammers, since an answer key will quickly be compiled, but it may help in cases where clueless people are ending up here.)

I am in favour of the request of 1 or 2 merit points to become a Junior because I have seen tens of alt-Juniors farming bounty campaigns - which means thousands of useless posts a day -  and it is going to continue since getting to Junior is just a question of just posting at the moment.

It would be hard for me to choose between money or knowledge, I want both, and probably a newbie would have an even bigger problem with that decision (or make an alt account since day 1).

Regarding the quiz, it is an excellent idea - upon registration the user could get a link to a thread with the very basics, like a 1 minute reading really, and be informed that he/she has to pass the test to become Junior. It is absolutely fine if the answers are eventually compiled because in any case the user will actually read the right answers and at least be aware of them.

I would avoid the English questions, there are local boards and non-English speakers can be active and be a good asset for their communities. Ideally, newbies should be pointed to rules in their own language.

[Kim Ji Won]

I think that the number of bots will not decrease, they will spam in other topics. This can reduce the number of participants in bounty campaigns, which is good for us, but bad for the newcomers who signed up for the forum just because of this. You're right, 1 Merit earn is not so difficult, so the system has the right to life.

They are spamming on other boards after all,  after they joined bounty campaigns.

The forum gets a good PR for them, but if you stick to this system, then everyone who wants to participate in bounty projects on the forum, and not on other sites, must first study it and benefit, what you said. We sacrifice a quantity in favor of quality, which is good for some, but for others it's bad.

Good for some? I think the number of people who will benefit to the quality over quantity of posts overweighs those who people who don't so it is better to force this idea and let's see what will happen

[CryptoAssasin]

What do the people who operate these bounties think of the newbie invasion?

The newbies are less problematic than the jr. members. Usually the minimum required rank (e.g. sig. campaign) is jr. member. Bounties often have Google forms, and this can get attacked/abused easily when applying. A recent case that I've reported to a moderator was ~50 jr. members applying within 30 minutes (all the classic spam accounts). Merit requirement needs to be added for this rank, and it should be a tad more than 1 merit.

I agree. I believe that most of newbies are only an alt account and spamming the forum to rank up to Jr member for signature bounties. It would be a nice idea if those bounties have minimum merit requirements to be eligible for participation. That way, they might try to ask their selves what are the best way to achieve merit.

[The Cryptovator]

My request is to force newbies to obtain at least 1 Merit point to become junior member + you must be junior member or more to post in the bounties sub.

Not agree with 1 merit , many corrupted member's here 1 merit can be buy. So requirement of 1 merit will be merit abuse & opportunity for corrupted members for earning.

Agree with posting on Marketplace (Altcoins) &  disable signeture campaign for Jr. Members can prevent spam. This is the best way I guess to prevent spam.

Else, I have an alternative solution, no need for that merit point to become a junior member but force everyone to have at least 1 Merit to post in bounties.
This will cut the amount of spam and will make bots useless.

As I say 1 merit requiermnt will improve merit abuse. Just disable signeture and posting restriction.

What do the people who operate these bounties think of the newbie invasion? Also, people should not be required to post in order to get paid; that's already against the rules.

An idea I had in this vein was that upon registration you'd have to pick one of two paths:
 - "I want to discuss things"
     = Banned from all money-making/spam-hotbed sections until Jr Member
 - "I want to make money"
     = Banned from the more serious sections until Jr Member
     = You have to pass a quiz before posting which tries to inform you about basic forum rules, how not to get banned, maybe some basic English knowledge, etc. (Quizzes are pointless to stop dedicated spammers, since an answer key will quickly be compiled, but it may help in cases where clueless people are ending up here.)

Strongly disagree, it will encourage people to make multiples account. May be people will create one account for earn money and o other for discusses thing. That means who will choice make money he can't post any other section except bounty. It means he will not able to do signature campaign.

So why not just disable signature campaign instead of implement new members rank ?

[MainIbem]

I think it is a fantastic idea. But it will not solve the problem. I noticed that there are two kinds of posts. Post for activity count and post for merit count. The forum allows for both. Most members are more concerned with post for activity than post for merit because the former guarantee you your being an active member, and in the event that you are running a signature campaign, your stakes. With that, they really don't care about the quality of their posts.

[bill gator]

What do the people who operate these bounties think of the newbie invasion?

If I had to guess, they probably fool themselves into thinking they're getting the right kind of attention.

An idea I had in this vein was that upon registration you'd have to pick one of two paths:
 - "I want to discuss things"
     = Banned from all money-making/spam-hotbed sections until Jr Member
 - "I want to make money"
     = Banned from the more serious sections until Jr Member
     = You have to pass a quiz before posting which tries to inform you about basic forum rules, how not to get banned, maybe some basic English knowledge, etc. (Quizzes are pointless to stop dedicated spammers, since an answer key will quickly be compiled, but it may help in cases where clueless people are ending up here.)

I'm of the belief that the more dedicated spammers are the problem, it is no coincidence that LoyceV can pull up a list of 300+ newbies spamming the same phrase in multiple ICO/Bounty threads. This might be a good opportunity to allow the merit system to act as a gatekeeper for the "paths" (or these sections in general, and do away with paths). Consider having a threshold separate from those tied to ranking up, and that would be the criteria for entering the section(s) not allotted by your path.

Alternatively you could change the questions on timed/random intervals, potentially having members submit questions to be added into the next rotation, at least re-formatting the questions in such a way that an answer key would be obsolete or counter-productive.

With only 1% of the forum having received a single merit, I would say this is a rather impressive indicator that those with a merit are the users willing to operate and discuss in good faith (with a margin of error, of course). Allowing merit to be the litmus test for access to the bounties/altcoin/spam-hotbed/money-making sections almost certainly would do significant damage to our spam problem.

[TMAN]

personally I believe that the bounty sub should be a reward and not a right. Members should be able to demonstrate a certain level of knowledge or commitment to be let into that area, and I think that 1 merit isn't enough - 10 or 20 should be the bar IMO..

[bitart]

What do the people who operate these bounties think of the newbie invasion? Also, people should not be required to post in order to get paid; that's already against the rules.

An idea I had in this vein was that upon registration you'd have to pick one of two paths:
 - "I want to discuss things"
     = Banned from all money-making/spam-hotbed sections until Jr Member
 - "I want to make money"
     = Banned from the more serious sections until Jr Member
     = You have to pass a quiz before posting which tries to inform you about basic forum rules, how not to get banned, maybe some basic English knowledge, etc. (Quizzes are pointless to stop dedicated spammers, since an answer key will quickly be compiled, but it may help in cases where clueless people are ending up here.)

I like this idea, it's nice and easy.

Just cut the forum (virtually) in two:
1) Bitcoin and Altcoin discussion (serious) (gaining activity and merit) and
2) ANN on Off-topic (no additional activity and no merit)

Make the users choose where they want to start to post. A user can only post in only one part, but can change this setting in every 30 days (or 60 days even better). (It's useless for bots and account farmers, they won't wait, they will register accounts for both sections).

So if newbies want, they can participate in any bounty and after if they have read a lot here and are interested in Bitcoin and serious things too, they can change their mind (and their settings too), but I'm afraid classic bounty hunters won't change at all...

This would cause that the serious section won't be spammed with bounty posts/signatures. I don't know if this would be OK for the companies running the bounties for their ICOs, because they will lose the serious part of the forum, their marketing won't reach the serious members of the crypto world (if they care about it at all, maybe they just need to present at the ICO rating websites that they have an active ANN thread in BTT and they have enough posts there daily...)

The serious section would still have the classic signature campaigns with reliable campaign managers, who will take care about the quality.

[aksen]

Keeping the current scenario in mind, it should be more than 1 merit to be eligible for bounties. Practically, it the bounty programs that decide minimum eligibility to participate. Some require just a user to post links about their projects everywhere (FB , Twitter or even this forum). Those programs do not care much about the knowledge or contribution of the members on this forum. Till the demand for such users is there, we will not see spam removed from bitcointalk completely.