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Author Topic: Bitcoin Common Law System  (Read 8446 times)
myrkul
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March 01, 2011, 12:15:35 AM
 #81

You don't.

You also don't have to deal with complete strangers. I don't know if anyone has set this up yet or not, But we should have a database of payment addresses associated with merchants. Since the address is unique, anyone who wants to build up positive rep just keeps using the same acceptor address, anyone with 0 rep is a possible scam artist who just switched addresses.

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March 01, 2011, 12:19:30 AM
 #82

You don't.

You also don't have to deal with complete strangers. I don't know if anyone has set this up yet or not, But we should have a database of payment addresses associated with merchants. Since the address is unique, anyone who wants to build up positive rep just keeps using the same acceptor address, anyone with 0 rep is a possible scam artist who just switched addresses.

You might be interested on my draft idea here:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3920.0
myrkul
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March 01, 2011, 12:31:22 AM
 #83

You might be interested on my draft idea here:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3920.0

Yes, I am interested. Posting on that thread now...

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breandan81
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March 01, 2011, 01:12:48 AM
 #84

You misunderstand my meaning, of course you are free to apply market pressures by spending or not spending with various merchants.  The thread proposed a system of laws and arbitration.  That goes far beyond market pressures, and people who are identifiable in real life will not be able to follow community laws before following local laws that are enforced with physical force.  If allegiance to a parallel court system is the price for using bitcoin, it will always remain a rand minority that uses it.  If that's what some people want fine, it's not what I want for the future of bitcoin. 

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kiba
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March 01, 2011, 02:25:40 AM
 #85

You misunderstand my meaning, of course you are free to apply market pressures by spending or not spending with various merchants.  The thread proposed a system of laws and arbitration.  That goes far beyond market pressures, and people who are identifiable in real life will not be able to follow community laws before following local laws that are enforced with physical force.  If allegiance to a parallel court system is the price for using bitcoin, it will always remain a rand minority that uses it.  If that's what some people want fine, it's not what I want for the future of bitcoin.  
* kiba sigh.

Read the god damn thread.

It's fucking completely voluntary!

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March 01, 2011, 02:28:44 AM
 #86

If allegiance to a parallel court system is the price for using bitcoin, it will always remain a rand minority that uses it. 
I am about to fall out of my chair.
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March 01, 2011, 06:31:16 AM
 #87

 I should add that if you simply mean to set up some sort of community standards system in which reputation counts and violation of the "laws" cause a lowering of "credit rating" that's fine... that's totally doable, and in fact is already being done at bitcoin-otc.


That's exactly what I'm talking about. I just want to try to find a way to protect people from false accusations to some extent. Clear contracts would help with that. Arbitration might be useful too. I grow tired of reiterating this in so many ways. Here's a test, let's see who fails English comprehension:

I'm talking about trying to improve the trust model we now use. I'm thinking of doing it in three parts:

1: simple contract base people can use if they feel like it, or modify at will. This is just convenience mostly, generally just a simple "I promise not to steal your shit" would suffice.

2. Ways to actually prove whether either party has fulfilled their word or not. This is the biggest one, as if you can prove foul play, you can point to the proof and be justified in denouncing a person publicly.

3. For gray areas, arbitration. Both parties need to agree to it of course. Probably this would not be used very often, but some kind of basic procedure might be nice to have for reference at least.

My motivation here is that reputation is so important in anonymous trading, it feels very risky to have no real protection against simple character assassination. I'd feel better if I could take any serious disputes to a trusted third party and provide them with whatever proof I have that I have, indeed done what I said I would. If my hypothetical accuser refused to do this, it would be telling of their claims.

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myrkul
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March 01, 2011, 06:57:29 AM
 #88

I suggested a pretty good way to do this over on this thread: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3920.0

I'll tl;dr it here, for those of you who'd rather not go to the other thread: Paypal buyer/seller ratings linked to payment addresses, and rated by escrow service. You are welcome to change payment addresses, but you'll lose all your rep.

Arbitration would be the best way to settle disputes.

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breandan81
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March 01, 2011, 09:45:42 AM
 #89

OK, criticism withdrawn, I'll wait and see how it turns out and then decide whether to participate.

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March 01, 2011, 09:57:23 PM
 #90

We have to abide to our respective national laws.  Believing that we can make a Bitcoin law and somehow enforce it is nonsense.  I.e. an exchange operated in one country would have to follow different laws and regulations than an exchange operated in another country.
Why should bitcoiners care about if you follow national laws or not? Will you provide the goods and services, or will you not?
Because if I am e.g. an exchange, and I don't follow my national law, YOU risk loosing everything you've trusted me with if I get caught.  I may have the best intentions, but it doesn't help at all if what I do is illegal in my jurisdiction.  "Bitcoin common law" isn't worth anything when real life police knocks on the door.

Sjå http://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
I support the roadmap.  If a majority of miners ever try to forcefully take control of Bitcoin through a hard fork without 100% consensus, I will immediately split out and dump all my forkcoins, and buy more real Bitcoin.
kiba
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March 01, 2011, 10:00:30 PM
 #91

Because if I am e.g. an exchange, and I don't follow my national law, YOU risk loosing everything you've trusted me with if I get caught.  I may have the best intentions, but it doesn't help at all if what I do is illegal in my jurisdiction.  "Bitcoin common law" isn't worth anything when real life police knocks on the door.

How are we suppose to settle disputes when you're in one country and I am in another? You want me to use the court to sue your ass out of existence? What if some other guy can do but you can't without getting caught?

myrkul
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March 01, 2011, 11:23:58 PM
 #92

One can follow local laws and still settle disputes by Arbitration. The two are not mutually exclusive.

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Garrett Burgwardt
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March 02, 2011, 02:22:40 AM
 #93

One can follow local laws and still settle disputes by Arbitration. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Not to harp on The Icelandic Commonwealth, but they frequently used all available means to come to settlements, legal and extralegal.
hazek
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March 02, 2011, 12:27:32 PM
 #94

Man anarchy at work so beautiful to watch. This thread is a prime example of individuals throwing out ideas how to do commerce between one another and none of them having the ability to force their idea upon the rest instead it's all on a voluntary bases and people vote for ideas they like with their BitCoins.


I love it.

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
myrkul
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March 02, 2011, 12:30:31 PM
 #95

Man anarchy at work so beautiful to watch.

Ain't it?

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Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
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