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Author Topic: Bitcoin 2.0, not l0coin  (Read 3703 times)
jostmey
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August 18, 2011, 05:50:24 AM
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How about instead of people creating useless copies of the bitcoin currency, such as l0coin, people take a look at how bitcoin can be improved. There may not be much room for bitcoin 2.0, but any future p2p currency will have to significantly improve on bitcoin.

Here is one such idea - just an example. How do you recover lost bitcoins to prevent the eventual death of bitcoin in a generation or two? What about creating a coin system where coins that have sat inactive for over a year become mine-able again. That way, if someone stops moving their bitcoins around annually, they lose them. This would not only keep the currency alive after all the original players have died, but will encourage people to spend the coins everytime they are "renewed".

Don't just start creating bitcoin clones that are essentially scams doomed to fail.


 

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August 18, 2011, 06:00:56 AM
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How about instead of people creating useless copies of the bitcoin currency, such as l0coin, people take a look at how bitcoin can be improved. There may not be much room for bitcoin 2.0, but any future p2p currency will have to significantly improve on bitcoin.

Here is one such idea - just an example. How do you recover lost bitcoins to prevent the eventual death of bitcoin in a generation or two? What about creating a coin system where coins that have sat inactive for over a year become mine-able again. That way, if someone stops moving their bitcoins around annually, they lose them. This would not only keep the currency alive after all the original players have died, but will encourage people to spend the coins everytime they are "renewed".

Don't just start creating bitcoin clones that are essentially scams doomed to fail.


 

There's no single reason i0coin would be a scam. Elaborate. No, I don't have significant amount of i0coins myself.
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August 18, 2011, 06:04:39 AM
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ahh you mean like ixcoin which had only one number changed in the code?
where the found mined a half a million coins for himself?

or are you talking iocoin which was invented to show the stupidness of ixcoin.. which does solve btc problems like speeds up the transaction confirmations by speeding up the block found time.

that includes an encrypted wallet, which means if a trojan steals your wallet they cant spend the coins.

it also includes address checks to make sure you dont send iocions to a btc addy.. unlike ixcoin which will let you do that.

and it has difficulty growth and drop limits that prevent what is happening with namecoin where everyone waits until the diff drop, and then mines the fuck out of it until the diff shoots up to over 100k before disapearing back to BTC.


How about learn something before you bitch it solves no problems.
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Here is one such idea - just an example. How do you recover lost bitcoins to prevent the eventual death of bitcoin in a generation or two?


ahh so you want to punish savers.. like FIAT MONEY. Also due to the nature of things the more coins that are lost, the value go BTC goes us, causing less and less coins to be lost.

SO i cant save money for a year? seriously? are you nuts? you do realize that part of the reason Bitcoin was invented is that fiat money punishes savers right?

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Don't just start creating bitcoin clones that are essentially scams doomed to fail.


interesting you pick I0coin when ixcoin is much more scammy.. it was poorly made, only one line of code changed, it doesnt try to address a single flaw, and the founded took 500k coins for himself.. but let me guess, you think that is cool right?

It's called competition, if you dont like i0coin or ixcoin dont fucking mine or buy them.

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August 18, 2011, 06:05:34 AM
 #4

How about instead of people creating useless copies of the bitcoin currency, such as l0coin, people take a look at how bitcoin can be improved. There may not be much room for bitcoin 2.0, but any future p2p currency will have to significantly improve on bitcoin.

Here is one such idea - just an example. How do you recover lost bitcoins to prevent the eventual death of bitcoin in a generation or two? What about creating a coin system where coins that have sat inactive for over a year become mine-able again. That way, if someone stops moving their bitcoins around annually, they lose them. This would not only keep the currency alive after all the original players have died, but will encourage people to spend the coins everytime they are "renewed".

Don't just start creating bitcoin clones that are essentially scams doomed to fail.


 

There's no single reason i0coin would be a scam. Elaborate. No, I don't have significant amount of i0coins myself.

there are people heavy in ixcoin that are pissed off I0coin came out specifically to bring to light the many scammy aspects of it.

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jostmey
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August 18, 2011, 06:07:12 AM
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There's no single reason i0coin would be a scam. Elaborate. No, I don't have significant amount of i0coins myself.

The line between fiat or p2p currency and scam is very fine.

Creating the first p2p currency uncertain how it will turn out is bold, visionary, and insane.

Creating bitcoin clone currencies so that you can mine the first hundred-thousand coins is a scam.

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Tasty Champa
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August 18, 2011, 06:09:26 AM
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"i0coin, it's shit is all retarded."
bitv
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August 18, 2011, 06:12:44 AM
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Creating bitcoin clone currencies so that you can mine the first hundred-thousand coins is a scam.

This is the part which I wanted to be elaborated. There was no-one mining "first hundred-thousand coins" in i0coin. You're probably recalling IXcoin, which as far as I can tell is a scam.

I view i0coin as a simply community project by those who were frustrated by the obvious scam (IXC), but liked the concept of faster maturity etc. Regarding the launch, no coins we're premined and there's even proof about that.
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August 18, 2011, 06:25:32 AM
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There's no single reason i0coin would be a scam. Elaborate. No, I don't have significant amount of i0coins myself.

It's a scam pump & dump just like Ixcoin.  You and joulsbeef are little scamcoin cheerleaders apparently.  But if you look at the value of either of the scamcoins, you can see they're TANKING, and I'm glad.  Little BS 5th column projects like this undermine the whole Bitcoin movement as it serves as nothing more than a distraction while adding no significant value to the infrastructure.  Oh wow, encrypted wallet *jerk off hand jesture*

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August 18, 2011, 06:28:51 AM
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There's no single reason i0coin would be a scam. Elaborate. No, I don't have significant amount of i0coins myself.

It's a scam pump & dump just like Ixcoin.  You and joulsbeef are little scamcoin cheerleaders apparently.  But if you look at the value of either of the scamcoins, you can see they're TANKING, and I'm glad.  Little BS 5th column projects like this undermine the whole Bitcoin movement as it serves as nothing more than a distraction while adding no significant value to the infrastructure.  Oh wow, encrypted wallet *jerk off hand jesture*

Comments like this undermine the whole Bitcoin movement. You're spreading pure fud with nothing to back up your statements. There's nothing shady with i0coin. If you don't like it, don't use it. But stop spreading lies.

I mean, you're the one who decides which (crypto)currency people does use? Even if something with more advanced features than Bitcoin was developed (encrypted wallet is a REAL improvement for example), of course it can't be used, because your the one saying so. I think it's fair to warn people about scams, but spreading false information, when there's clear proof available that it isn't so... One should be banned for that, you're getting financial gain by exploiting ignorance of the people.
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August 18, 2011, 06:38:59 AM
 #10

There's no single reason i0coin would be a scam. Elaborate. No, I don't have significant amount of i0coins myself.

It's a scam pump & dump just like Ixcoin.  You and joulsbeef are little scamcoin cheerleaders apparently.  But if you look at the value of either of the scamcoins, you can see they're TANKING, and I'm glad.  Little BS 5th column projects like this undermine the whole Bitcoin movement as it serves as nothing more than a distraction while adding no significant value to the infrastructure.  Oh wow, encrypted wallet *jerk off hand jesture*

Comments like this undermine the whole Bitcoin movement. You're spreading pure fud with nothing to back up your statements. There's nothing shady with i0coin. If you don't like it, don't use it. But stop spreading lies.

it's not much of a lie though, iocoin, is simply a pump and dump.
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August 18, 2011, 06:41:57 AM
 #11

it's not much of a lie though, iocoin, is simply a pump and dump.

And again, where's the proof? As there even were no premined coins, can you tell me who's the operator of that scheme?
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August 18, 2011, 06:43:05 AM
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Oh wow, encrypted wallet *jerk off hand jesture*

You have got to be kidding that is the one thing that should have been included from the very start that it is not there for an encryption based project is almost the entire reason I think this thing is a joke run by a bunch of clowns the "Oh we take security so seriously for the blockchain that is but leave it out for the most important part the wallet.dat so you can have drive by stealing of your stuff.". That is just so far beyond ridiculous it is not even funny and people are trusting thousands of dollars to it...

Oh sure, an encrypted wallet would be useful for BITCOIN.  But for these pump & dump currencies, there's absolutely no use hoarding them locally as they serve no other purpose than exchange fodder.  These things get mined and go straight to Bitparking.  What other use do these coins serve other than to exchange them for real BTC?

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August 18, 2011, 06:45:14 AM
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it's not much of a lie though, iocoin, is simply a pump and dump.

And again, where's the proof? As there even were no premined coins, can you tell me who's the operator of that scheme?

The proof is in the lack of infrastructure.  There's no merchants that accept I0coins/Ixcoins, or any charitable organizations for that matter.  The only purpose of these coins are to exchange them for BTC.

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August 18, 2011, 06:48:47 AM
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it's not much of a lie though, iocoin, is simply a pump and dump.

And again, where's the proof? As there even were no premined coins, can you tell me who's the operator of that scheme?

The proof is in the lack of infrastructure.  There's no merchants that accept I0coins/Ixcoins, or any charitable organizations for that matter.  The only purpose of these coins are to exchange them for BTC.

Wow. Let me think a minute... How many merchants there were accepting Bitcoins when it did originate? I mean, there's no-one that did premine huge amount of coins to offer bounties for all that stuff. You do expect people to set all that up in day, for free? That definitely does not make it a pump and dump scheme.
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August 18, 2011, 06:49:12 AM
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it's not much of a lie though, iocoin, is simply a pump and dump.
Unlike the ixcoin you worship huh .....

you on old miner seem to tag team everything involved with i0coin and worship the ground ixcoin came out on.
So pray tell what makes ixcoin not a scam? it has a forum? lol.

you do realize that I0coin came out specifically in response to the concerns of the people over ixcoin which was very scammy from the very start.. from their fake japanese developer, to the fact that the founded took 500 thousand coins for himself.. cant see why that doesnt bug you. I0coin on the toehr hand was done in public and the release was public and everyone could mine on day one..

remind me why you worship ixcoins again?


Quote
There's no merchants that accept I0coins/Ixcoins, or any charitable organizations for that matter.  The only purpose of these coins are to exchange them for BTC.


remind me who took bitcoins 3 days after it;s release.. oh yeah, fucking no one. How many places can you trade namecoins for anything but BTC.. yeah not too many.. and how many people do nothing but mine BTC and then sell them for dollars.. yep a shit load.. so your point?  How are their going to be fucking merchants before people even have coin?


NO I0coins PURPOSE if you actually bothered to look, was to highlight the scam nature of ixcoin and it is working.

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August 18, 2011, 06:53:27 AM
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it's not much of a lie though, iocoin, is simply a pump and dump.

And again, where's the proof? As there even were no premined coins, can you tell me who's the operator of that scheme?


Do you need me to outline this for you? what kind of proof do you need?
Go buy your proof.
Buy 10BTC worth of iocoins at the iocoin exchange, tomorrow it will be gone.


Through your own premise BTC is also a scheme.
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August 18, 2011, 06:53:37 AM
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Once again, for the record, decreasing the time between blocks solves nothing. There's nothing magical about that sixth confirmation except that it took about an hour of processing time to reach. If blocks were found every 5 minutes instead of 10 we'd be waiting for 12 confirmations to get the same level of security. Folks who were part of the ixcoin and i0coin launches should ESPECIALLY know this since the various exchanges and pools were all making you wait 50, 100 or at one point 1,000 blocks before coins could be considered "confirmed" because multiple blocks were being found each SECOND. It also illustrates nicely that if the amount of time between blocks were to be set too low, multiple miners would "find" a block at once and the network would argue over which was valid for a bit, which would create constant horizontal branching and orphaned transactions.

With the exception of those few numbers actually changing the shape of the distribution curve, the i*coin forks have actually been a good demonstration of why certain things about bitcoin shouldn't be changed.

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August 18, 2011, 06:58:23 AM
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NO I0coins PURPOSE if you actually bothered to look, was to highlight the scam nature of ixcoin and it is working.
For the record, the scam has *nothing* to do with the pre-mined coins. That's a ridiculous red herring. At one time, you could have had ixcoins equal to the total number of pre-mined coins for under $1,000. The ixcoin founders probably spent that much hiding their identity and buying ixcoins to make a market. (In fact, I'm pretty sure I watched them do that.)

The early adopter argument doesn't apply to ixcoins. If you assume ixcoins won't succeed, then it makes no difference who adopted them early -- a large number of worthless coins is only slightly less worthless. If you assume they will succeed, then you can still be an early adopter. You can purchase 100,000 Ixcoins for about $1,000 right now. So if you believe the initial miners or early adopters got an unfairly good deal, you can have that same deal. Not interested? I didn't think so.

The scam is that they add *no* value to bitcoins whatsoever. Ixcoins have no conceivable value beyond speculation. There is no realistic reason anyone would ever adopt them as a currency over bitcoins. Or at least, if there is one, I sure as heck can't figure it out.

That is, the *only* conceivable reason to value Ixcoins is that hope that others will value them more greatly in the future. And the only reason they would ever do that is that someone might value them even more highly further in the future. This progressively increasing value is borderline inconceivable. On the other hand, bitcoins are gradually acquiring value as a medium of exchange, and if a cryptocurrency does become mainstream, the most likely candidate right now is bitcoins. So there's a realistic prospect of real future value anchoring the speculation.

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August 18, 2011, 07:20:54 AM
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You have got to be kidding that is the one thing that should have been included from the very start that it is not there for an encryption based project is almost the entire reason I think this thing is a joke run by a bunch of clowns the "Oh we take security so seriously for the blockchain that is but leave it out for the most important part the wallet.dat so you can have drive by stealing of your stuff.". That is just so far beyond ridiculous it is not even funny and people are trusting thousands of dollars to it...

Please correct me if I am wrong. However, it would appear that the wallet encryption code is actually from the Bitcoin source. Perhaps the Bitcoin developers did not feel that it was sufficiently tested and safe for general release. In other words, the encrypted wallet feature was actually implemented by the "bunch of clowns" you were referring to. Smiley
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August 18, 2011, 07:50:55 AM
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ahh you mean like ixcoin which had only one number changed in the code?

I find it interesting to see what would happen if the supply of coins was increased, although it's a pretty easy step of logic to conclude that it would flood the market with supply. I0coin could have at least taken the opposite side and tested what would happen if supply was distributed slower or on a different curve instead of a roughly equivalent supply line. Half the number of coins and more blocks per hour is not a innovation.

Quote from: joulesbeef
or are you talking iocoin which was invented to show the stupidness of ixcoin.. which does solve btc problems like speeds up the transaction confirmations by speeding up the block found time.

Yes, the childish-ness of 'see, I can make a clone too because I don't like the way you did it'.

Quote from: joulesbeef
that includes an encrypted wallet, which means if a trojan steals your wallet they cant spend the coins.

Enabling a client feature that is already in testing by Bitcoin devs is not any bit innovative. The same could have been done by anyone that wanted to test it on the Bitcoin client or Ixcoin client as well.
 
Quote from: joulesbeef
it also includes address checks to make sure you dont send iocions to a btc addy.. unlike ixcoin which will let you do that.

Another trivial client feature and not an innovative change to the bitcoin protocol.

Quote from: joulesbeef
and it has difficulty growth and drop limits that prevent what is happening with namecoin where everyone waits until the diff drop, and then mines the fuck out of it until the diff shoots up to over 100k before disapearing back to BTC.

That's something that I didn't know, but lends itself more to a pump and dump clone than an evolution of Bitcoin. It presupposes that people will treat it like namecoin and abandon it when difficulty gets too high. If I0coin network, not the client, actually had features that would make it a serious alternative to Bitcoin it wouldn't need this.

Quote from: joulesbeef
interesting you pick i0coin when ixcoin is much more scammy..

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Quote from: joulesbeef
it was poorly made,

and when I looked at i0coin on launch date (which was beyond a disaster, and worse than I predicted) they didn't even have a full suite of clients up, since you like to espouse client features, i0 failed miserably

Quote from: joulesbeef
it doesnt try to address a single flaw,

i0's list is short too, and nowhere near ground breaking

Quote from: joulesbeef
and the founded took 500k coins for himself.. but let me guess, you think that is cool right?

That doesn't bug me for a few reasons. At least half of the coins he mined are up for bounty, and most likely more than half since some bounties can be paid more than once. Since Bitcoin already exists and he is second to market, incentives are needed to foster growth. Early adopters in Bitcoin managed to accomplish this because they had a long slow head start and paid bounties out of belief in the cause, no such thing will happen in any clone. And the biggest part is that Ixcoin was launched in relative silence by a single post on the forums, not with a bunch of advertising and hoopla out of spite.

Neither ixcoin nor i0coin have any features that are innovative technical improvements to the Bitcoin protocol. Both supply curves could have been simulated on a graph and analyzed for effectiveness. They have both muddied the water of crypto currency. Congrats to both.


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