[CLOSED] AntMiner U1 1.6 GH/S USB Sticks 4,000 TOTAL Ships TODAY

[klondike_bar]

ROI ~2 years? with 1.6w

Unfortunatelly not, ROI infinity...you can't reach, even not in 1,2 or 100 Year.

Guys, keep in mind they have had the U1s in production for a while.  So yes, they are pricey based on today's numbers but if these had come out 3-4 weeks ago I don't think there would be as many complaints.  They charged what they thought they needed to charge, and people bought them all.  Same with the S1.  There's no reason to get bent out of shape about it.  I bought 4 S1s and paid 4.25 BTC each (4.2 on the last).  My first one was the equivalent of $4500 in USD.  My last was $2700 because of the fluctuation in BTC prices.  So when they sell to us based on BTC prices they are taking a currency hit too.  They have to pay their bills, their workers, etc; and I doubt those guys are taking BTC.

Maybe you missunderstand, how this business work. 1 Chip cost the factory lesser then 4-5USD. 1 USB printed board assembly about 1.5USD (maximum, depend on the quantity much lesser). Calculate, and you will see the complete price is per item about 6 or 7USD. A sale price of 60USD each item right now (depend on the "low" exchange rate) bring them 1000% profit, at least.

And, they don't have to pay for any "worker" or what you guess. The printed board assembly price is an all inclusive price from outsourcing factory. There are alot in China. Bitmain just need to calculate the develope time for a handful guys, the production can be outsourced.

maybe you misunderstand the theory of supply and demand. They made 4000 U1 devices available (supply) at a high price. Apparently, there are enough people buying at this price (demand) to support it.

if you are selling beer at the bar, are you going to charge $0.30 per can because that's what you paid, or the $5.00 customers will pay for a beer?

also, there are components involved besides just PCB and chip. they bought assembly machines and there are other components needed on the usb to control the chip. the price per device is likely closer to $8-12 USD and that does not count time/space/machinery

[giletto]

I just want to correct him, because he thought, the price is depend on lower exchange rates or something like that. And about the demand, that is exactly the reason, why they are overpriced. In your bar example: If you have a bar in a area with high demand and low infrastructure around (near a mine for example), you can charge 1000% for a beer because you use the dependancy of the worker/miner, usually is this impossible, in a normal area you will not got more then 300%.

So you sample is crap, because for 2 reason: Nobody buy a miner for his fun or to enjoy the time, like to drink a beer in a bar. Every Miner will buyed for 1 reason, to bring a little profit. Second reason, if they would charge a profit of 300% and sale the miner for 20-30USD, the price would be reasonable, for BOTH so you can call it win/win, for factory AND buyer! 1000% is simple greedy, and only 1 party got win, the factory. The buyer lost, it's a win/lost

The price for production is impossible 8-12USD as i wrote: 1 Chip Batch sale for 99BTC, 10.000pcs. This mean, each chip cost the factory much lesser then this sale price of 0.0099 each or USD about $6. If they calculate the chips at the same rate like the USB and they charge 1000%, each chip cost lesser then $1, so i guess when i say $5 for the chip is much higher then the real cost!

And 1 USB PCB you got finish developed for 1000 or more units fur  much lesser then $2 in china ALL INCLUSIVE! With my price range of 6-7USD i am much overrated, so this price is for sure INCLUDE all side costs!

Don't calculate with US prices or where you came from, i stay in Asia and i know the production cost of electronic here. Believe me, 1000% are at least the profit for the USB Miner. And we talk about Group sale, not end customer sale!

This deal is impossible to be for anyone profitable because there is no space for anyone to calculate with profit, after the factory charge 1000%. On the end every end customer will pay much much overprice, and will never see ROI, even because this reseller price is impossible to get ROI!

Sure you could say: up to them, why they bought so expensive. But in my eye is that not the idea behind a group buy or BTC philosophy. There are enough greedy player in normal capitalism. The BTC or the miner community should keep together and work against this greedy behaviour.

[GreekBitcoin]

I just want to correct him, because he thought, the price is depend on lower exchange rates or something like that. And about the demand, that is exactly the reason, why they are overpriced. In your bar example: If you have a bar in a area with high demand and low infrastructure around (near a mine for example), you can charge 1000% for a beer because you use the dependancy of the worker/miner, usually is this impossible, in a normal area you will not got more then 300%.

So you sample is crap, because for 2 reason: Nobody buy a miner for his fun or to enjoy the time, like to drink a beer in a bar. Every Miner will buyed for 1 reason, to bring a little profit. Second reason, if they would charge a profit of 300% and sale the miner for 20-30USD, the price would be reasonable, for BOTH so you can call it win/win, for factory AND buyer! 1000% is simple greedy, and only 1 party got win, the factory. The buyer lost, it's a win/lost

The price for production is impossible 8-12USD as i wrote: 1 Chip Batch sale for 99BTC, 10.000pcs. This mean, each chip cost the factory much lesser then this sale price of 0.0099 each or USD about $6. If they calculate the chips at the same rate like the USB and they charge 1000%, each chip cost lesser then $1, so i guess when i say $5 for the chip is much higher then the real cost!

And 1 USB PCB you got finish developed for 1000 or more units fur  much lesser then $2 in china ALL INCLUSIVE! With my price range of 6-7USD i am much overrated, so this price is for sure INCLUDE all side costs!

Don't calculate with US prices or where you came from, i stay in Asia and i know the production cost of electronic here. Believe me, 1000% are at least the profit for the USB Miner. And we talk about Group sale, not end customer sale!

This deal is impossible to be for anyone profitable because there is no space for anyone to calculate with profit, after the factory charge 1000%. On the end every end customer will pay much much overprice, and will never see ROI, even because this reseller price is impossible to get ROI!

Sure you could say: up to them, why they bought so expensive. But in my eye is that not the idea behind a group buy or BTC philosophy. There are enough greedy player in normal capitalism. The BTC or the miner community should keep together and work against this greedy behaviour.

I agree with you but you except one thing. There is no capitalism without super greed. It is the essence of capitalism. You like it or not. There is no middle position. There is no way BTC community will keep together. Greedy behaviour will exist as soon as capitalism exists.

[giletto]

I agree with you but you except one thing. There is no capitalism without super greed. It is the essence of capitalism. You like it or not. There is no middle position. There is no way BTC community will keep together. Greedy behaviour will exist as soon as capitalism exists.

Unfortunatelly you may be right. In my oppinion was the idea behind BTC to be opposite this FED greed and worldwide USD swindle. But i got remembered always, not the situation is the problem, the ppl are.

[davideak]

Just a question:
sushi - how much heat do these things produce?
Do they need active cooling like the current 333 MHZ erupters?
Do you recommend standard spacing on hub - or double?

Thanks.

[ktzhan]

Just a question:
sushi - how much heat do these things produce?
Do they need active cooling like the current 333 MHZ erupters?
Do you recommend standard spacing on hub - or double?

Thanks.

When running at 1.6Hash/s, total power is around 2W, no need acitve cooling.
Product size: 60 x 25 x 8 mm, please select proper hub.

https://i.imgur.com/s4G3ta5.jpg

[davideak]

When running at 1.6Hash/s, total power is around 2W, no need acitve cooling.
Product size: 60 x 25 x 8 mm, please select proper hub.

Thanks!

Do you know how much each unit+packing weigh?

[cxboyminer]

Looking forward to distribute those bad ants

Nice job bitmain

Merry christmas

Will there be different colours?

[ktzhan]

Looking forward to distribute those bad ants

Nice job bitmain

Merry christmas

Will there be different colours?

We plan to produce ants with 5 colors, like iphone5.
let is wait the next batch.

[cxboyminer]

Looking forward to distribute those bad ants

Nice job bitmain

Merry christmas

Will there be different colours?

We plan to produce ants with 5 colors, like iphone5.
let is wait the next batch.

HI ktzhan,

please check pm. Urgent thanks

[klondike_bar]

When running at 1.6Hash/s, total power is around 2W, no need acitve cooling.
Product size: 60 x 25 x 8 mm, please select proper hub.

good to know! Assuming 2.5W is available through the USB port, I assume these can be clocked to ~1.8GH each? (Assuming that a little extra heatsinking or some fans get involved)

[CanaryInTheMine]

Hi sushi,

Can you tell how can we mine with multi usb on a same computer? Do we need to config anything?

Thanks.

was this answered somewhere already? thanks

[Korxax]

I just want to correct him, because he thought, the price is depend on lower exchange rates or something like that. And about the demand, that is exactly the reason, why they are overpriced. In your bar example: If you have a bar in a area with high demand and low infrastructure around (near a mine for example), you can charge 1000% for a beer because you use the dependancy of the worker/miner, usually is this impossible, in a normal area you will not got more then 300%.

So you sample is crap, because for 2 reason: Nobody buy a miner for his fun or to enjoy the time, like to drink a beer in a bar. Every Miner will buyed for 1 reason, to bring a little profit. Second reason, if they would charge a profit of 300% and sale the miner for 20-30USD, the price would be reasonable, for BOTH so you can call it win/win, for factory AND buyer! 1000% is simple greedy, and only 1 party got win, the factory. The buyer lost, it's a win/lost

The price for production is impossible 8-12USD as i wrote: 1 Chip Batch sale for 99BTC, 10.000pcs. This mean, each chip cost the factory much lesser then this sale price of 0.0099 each or USD about $6. If they calculate the chips at the same rate like the USB and they charge 1000%, each chip cost lesser then $1, so i guess when i say $5 for the chip is much higher then the real cost!

And 1 USB PCB you got finish developed for 1000 or more units fur  much lesser then $2 in china ALL INCLUSIVE! With my price range of 6-7USD i am much overrated, so this price is for sure INCLUDE all side costs!

Don't calculate with US prices or where you came from, i stay in Asia and i know the production cost of electronic here. Believe me, 1000% are at least the profit for the USB Miner. And we talk about Group sale, not end customer sale!

This deal is impossible to be for anyone profitable because there is no space for anyone to calculate with profit, after the factory charge 1000%. On the end every end customer will pay much much overprice, and will never see ROI, even because this reseller price is impossible to get ROI!

Sure you could say: up to them, why they bought so expensive. But in my eye is that not the idea behind a group buy or BTC philosophy. There are enough greedy player in normal capitalism. The BTC or the miner community should keep together and work against this greedy behaviour.

I agree with you but you except one thing. There is no capitalism without super greed. It is the essence of capitalism. You like it or not. There is no middle position. There is no way BTC community will keep together. Greedy behaviour will exist as soon as capitalism exists.

Everybody wants to repeal the law of supply and demand... Get over it.  It can't be done.  The manufacturer has a limited production capacity. There are enough people willing to pay the price they ask to well out their capacity.  If that changes and people won't pay the price, they will lower their price.  If people offer more money and they can't increase their supply, price will go up to reduce demand to the amount they can manufacture.  It's as simple as that.  It's not greed, it's giving people what they want for a price they are willing to pay.  Yes, it makes no sense to buy the product if you can't make money off of it.  But there is apparently no shortage of people that don't do the math, or think the math doesn't apply to them for some reason to buy all of the capacity they have at a price that will not make the customer money.  Don't get mad at the manufacturer for selling their product into the market for what people are willing to pay.  Get mad at the customers that are willing to pay more than they should driving the price up.  Supply and demand works.  It always has, and always will.  Capitalism works because everyone works in their own self interest.  The problems always come in when governments come in and try to "fix" things.  They inevitably jump in and make things worse.  a situation like this where too many people are willing to pay too much never lasts.  Capitalism and supply and demand are self correcting.  When governments come in and "price fix" everyone ends up paying more in the long run.  As the manufacturers continue to make more of their product they get better at it and reduce their costs, and demand will fall off and prices will come down.  When there is price fixing the price stays high, or if it is set artificially low a black market develops where connected people buy up all the supply and re-sell at higher prices anyway.  It's human nature.  It can't be changed.  Capitalism works because it takes advantage of human nature and competition to get the most product to the most people at the lowest possible price.  Freedom works.  every time it's tried.  But people always complain so politicians get in the mix and muck it up for everyone.  That's why socialism has failed everywhere it has been tried.  And why a little start up country of peasants created the most powerful country in the world in less than 100 years.  Unfortunately, we are now losing it.  While communist China is learning capitalism from the huge success of Hong Kong.  By the way, every time the US has lowered taxes revenue to the US Treasury has increased.  The economy grows and they get a smaller piece of a much bigger pie.  Money is only taxed when it changes hands.  When taxes are too high people hoard their money and it doesn't get taxed.  Raising taxes doesn't punish the rich either, it just makes it much harder for anyone else to accumulate any wealth, keeping the rich on top and taking the opportunity from everyone else to become rich.

You decry the greed of the company, but yet you want to buy their product from them at a lower price  than others are willing to pay for it.  Greed is a 2 way street.

Sorry, I just get so sick of the BS taught in schools about the wonders of socialism and how everyone can be equal in a utopian paradise.  The only result is everyone is equally miserable and poor, while the ruling class politicians and their cronies have all the money and power over individuals lives.  Take a look at Cuba and Venezuela, North Korea for examples.  The Soviet Union also failed.  It never works, but for some reason people never learn and keep trying.

Freedom and non-interference by government is a big part of what bitcoin is all about.  Learn to understand the rest of it in supply and demand, that's what make the price of bitcoin keep going up too.

/end rant

Korxax



1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

[giletto]

Sorry, I just get so sick of the BS taught in schools about the wonders of socialism and how everyone can be equal in a utopian paradise.  The only result is everyone is equally miserable and poor, while the ruling class politicians and their cronies have all the money and power over individuals lives.  Take a look at Cuba and Venezuela, North Korea for examples.  The Soviet Union also failed.  It never works, but for some reason people never learn and keep trying.

It's much OT but just my 5 last cents:

You missunderstand somethng really importend: Not the system is wrong in socialsm, the ruler are. It's just human beeing, that not many ppl are able to control that much power without to get corrupt by the power.

[Korxax]

Sorry, I just get so sick of the BS taught in schools about the wonders of socialism and how everyone can be equal in a utopian paradise.  The only result is everyone is equally miserable and poor, while the ruling class politicians and their cronies have all the money and power over individuals lives.  Take a look at Cuba and Venezuela, North Korea for examples.  The Soviet Union also failed.  It never works, but for some reason people never learn and keep trying.

It's much OT but just my 5 last cents:

You missunderstand somethng really importend: Not the system is wrong in socialsm, the ruler are. It's just human beeing, that not many ppl are able to control that much power without to get corrupt by the power.

And you misunderstand that the system causes those people to become the rulers.  It attracts that kind of people.  And absolute power corrupts absolutely.  Socialism will always have this problem.  It also breeds laziness.  Far too many people are happy to coast through life expecting others to do the work to support them.  This always brings down the whole system. That is the true story of the first American Thanksgiving.  The mayflower compact was a socialist agreement that everyone would share their harvest and the central governors would give out the food to the people based on their need.  The first 2 years of this more than half the colony starved to death because everyone figured their neighbor would grow enough food that they wouldn't have to work hard at it since they would just eat their neighbors crops.  The problem was, when most of them thought this way, there wasn't enough food to go around.  After 2 years of this William Bradford tore up the mayflower compact and everyone got their own piece of land and were told everything they harvest was theirs to eat or trade.  Their harvest that year was abundant and they had so much food they invited the Indians for a feast  (I know, not what you were taught in school, but that's part of my point).   Capitalism takes advantage of human nature, call it greed if you want, but people will work hard for their, and their families, own good.  When people have a large percentage of their labors taken and given to people that are coasting, it saps their motivation to work hard too. 

Socialism has always failed, and always will fail.  It's inevitable.  Eventually you run out of other peoples money.  The only place socialism could ever work is in heaven... and I'm and atheist so I guess you know where I stand on that one too.  (In fact the religious teachings about it I believe is why it keeps being tried.  Even the conservative religious people, Judeo-Christian's at least, that are generally for free market capitalism sympathize with socialism because that's the way the believe things will work in heaven)  As soon as you put real people in the system it will always fail.  I understand why academics look at it and think how wonderful it could be, and in theory, sure, it sounds nice.  But real people don't work that way.  People aren't machines that can be programmed to behave in a certain way.  The only way to enforce people to work in that system is through tyranny (or universally loving your neighbor, which isn't going to happen on this earth).  It has happened every single time it's been tried.  And will continue to fail and cause the death, torture and general misery of millions of people along the way.

The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Show me a place where it socialism is the norm and tell me it hasn't happened, and I'll point right back at it and show you how it is happening, it just hasn't collapsed yet, but it's on the way.  It takes time, but it always happens, unless by some miracle people realize what is happening and reverse course before it's too late.  Look at the massive debt of all the socialist countries, that's how it starts.  And don't tell me "Yeah, well America is capitalist and they are in debt too."  It's the socialist policies of the US that have put the US in debt.  Cut those socialist policies out of the government and we have a maybe 20% tax rate and still have more money than we know what to do with along with a booming economy and extremely low un-employment.  The problem in America doesn't have true capitalism anymore, it's crony-capitalism and socialism.  There hasn't been true capitalism in the US for nearly 100 years, maybe even longer than that. America is still prosperous because of the capitalist underpinnings of the constitution.  It was powerful enough to make us a superpower in an amazingly short time, and we are still coasting on the massive power capitalism gave the country, but the steam is running out unless we change course and go back to it.   Everyone looks at the failures of the US and blames it on the capitalism, but it's the crony-capitalism that people confuse with true capitalism.  They aren't the same thing by a long shot.  the Federal government of the US was never meant to be much more

What everyone needs is equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome.  Equality of opportunity requires a small government that doesn't have the power to pick winners and losers. 
As soon as government has that kind of power corruption enters the system.  It's human nature, it's un-avoidable.  If you want to get  a picture of what ultimately happens when we demand our government give us equality of outcome read Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut.  It's a short story, only a few pages, so no reason not to do it. 

There will always be pockets of poverty in capitalism, that's what people point at and try to tear it down with.  But for the most part that poverty doesn't last, people move in and out of poverty all the time in capitalism.  It isn't a permanent condition.  And even the poverty in capitalism is far superior to the poverty in any other form of government.  In Free market capitalism, as long as people are willing to work hard, they will have a chance to get ahead.  In communist countries it's nearly impossible to get ahead.  If you were born the son of a ditch digger, you will grow up to be a ditch digger.  And communism is just the next step past socialism.  You can already hear the cries for it in western socialist countries.  "The only way to solve the debt problem is to take all the money from the rich and re-distribute it to the people."  It was a similar cry that created the Soviet Union.

What people don't seem to understand about the rich, at least first generation rich, not the ones that inherited a fortune, is that without them, most of us would be poor.  They invented something, or some process that made other people's lives better.  Their products actually created money that didn't exist before they started their business.  There isn't a set amount of money in the world that is just divided up un-equally.  Without their ideas and inventions there would actually be less money in the world.  People get the idea that they are takeing and hoarding all the money, but much of the money they have wouldn't even exist without them.  As to the money you spend on their products... if you think the price is too high, don't buy it.  No one is forcing you to.  If you think their product will give you some value to your life and that the price they are asking is worth the benefit you receive, who cares if they get rich on it?  You got something you wanted out of the deal too.   If other people are willing to pay more than you for a product, why should they sell it to you at a lower price?  What makes you so special?

Look, I understand  being envious of people that have more than you do.  I've been poor, hell I'm really not in that great of shape now.  I can't work a normal job because I get Cluster Headaches.  (Imagine a day long migraine packed into 30-120 minutes and repeat up to 10 times a day. clusterheadaches.com for more info if you are curious)  I'd love to have some of the expensive fancy toys the rich have, hell I'd just like to have a normal life without pain.  But don't get so jealous that you can't see that buying those expensive toys is how the rich can put their money to work for everyone else.  When they buy those toys, it gives the people that make them jobs so that they can feed their families and buy smaller toys of their own.  One of the worst things that happens when there is an economic crisis like there was at the end of 2008 (caused because the government forced banks to make loans to people that couldn't afford them, not because of greedy capitalists as you've been told) is that people resent the rich for spending money and so the rich try to remain inconspicuous about their spending.  This only exacerbates the problem, we need them spending, especially when the rest of us aren't due to financial hardships.  That's what gets the economy back on track.  But instead people start demanding higher taxes on the rich, which only makes them spend even less. 

Try to look at the whole economy not as one economy but as 2 distinctively different economies.  One is the private sector economy, the other is the public sector economy, government spending.  Remember, everything the government spends must first be taken out of the public sector economy in the form of taxes.  So government spending does NOT help the overall economy.  It can't, because before the government can spend money it mush first take it from the economy in one way or another.  Taxing it, borrowing it from future taxes, or printing it, which devalues the money with inflation.  So government spending to "help the economy" is like having a blanket that isn't long enough, so you cut some off of the bottom and sew it on the top.  In the short term your chest will feel warmer... but before long your feet get cold.  Not to mention a lot of the length of the blanket actually gets shorter because of the waste introduced by the overlap where you sewed it back together.  Now on the other hand... if the government were to cut taxes, that leaves more money in the hands of the people and businesses to invest in their companies and their lives.  More individuals with more money to spend quickly turns into more sales for businesses, who in turn hire more people to make the more products and services demanded by the public, which means even more people have jobs, and therefore money to spend on even more products, and before long the economy is booming again.  that increase in the economy then leads to more tax revenue because taxes are collected only when money changes hands.  With a lower tax rate, money changes hands more often and the treasury actually receives more dollars.

The real irony of socialism, is that in order to pay for all the social programs that socialists want to create what they need to do is keep taxes low.  But in practice they want control more, so they tax more and bankrupt the country.

Sorry didn't mean to hi-jack the thread, but I just get frustrated by how mis-understood Free Market Capitalism is. I kinda thought the bitcoin crowd would get it.  But it is to be expected when it is government doing the education.  They of course want to protect themselves with their version of the story.  The real beauty of bitcoin is that there is no government involvement.  No federal reserve printing money to cause inflation so they can inflate away the country's debt, etc.  It is pure Free Market Capitalism, and that's why it will succeed as long as governments don't figure out a way to destroy it, and I fully expect them to try.  My biggest worry is that governments will buy up enough computing power to gain control and destroy bitcoin with our own tax dollars.


Korxax


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

[giletto]

So you got it? Not the systems fault, just human beeing. Another race could handle that perfect (as you can found in wildlife), the greedy mankind can't. That is the simple point, why so less people with power can control the earth on such easy way.

[sushi]

run one command.
For example , this is 3 USB miners.
 
Option one:
1. plug in all of the USB miners.
2. replace driver for one of the USB minerss. Once one is replaced, then all of that will be replaced. (in the device manager)
3. run command in one command prompt window.
 
When you follow the above, cgminer may crash sometimes.
If so, please try this option two.
 
Option two:
1. plug in all USB miners.
2. replace the driver for one USB miners. Once one is replaced, then all of the miners will be replaced.
3. plug out all USB miners.
4. run command in one command prompt window.
5. plug in all USB miners one by one.
For the future use, only need step 4 and step 5.

Hi sushi,

Can you tell how can we mine with multi usb on a same computer? Do we need to config anything?

Thanks.

was this answered somewhere already? thanks

[Korxax]

So you got it? Not the systems fault, just human being. Another race could handle that perfect (as you can found in wildlife), the greedy mankind can't. That is the simple point, why so less people with power can control the earth on such easy way.

Sure, Bees and ants do it fine... but we aren't talking about bees or ants, or aliens.  Socialism will NEVER work with humans.  Guess what?  We are humans.  For humans Free Market Capitalism works, and is by far the most efficient system ever devised by man, but it requires that people are allowed to be free.  Some people can't stand that others may make what they perceive as mistakes and want to force people to do it their way.  I don't think they have the right to tell me how to live my life, so long as I don't interfere with anyone else's living their life the way they want to.  I don't care what could work for some alien race, I care about what happens to humans. 

Theories are fine and have their place, it's when people try to put them into action, when they will never work with real people involved that I have a problem.  People aren't bees or ants and would be miserable if forced to live like them.  Which is what happens if socialism is enforced on humans.  And I do mean enforced.   It can't be done with people being free.  Maybe you want to be told what to do, where to live, how many kids you can have, what to eat, etc. but the majority of humans don't want that.  Personally I can't understand why anyone would want that, but if some people do they are free to form their own groups to do that if they want to, but they shouldn't force it on people, and if they create their little commune people should be free to leave if they decide it isn't for them.  Freedom and socialism are mutually exclusive, they can't exist together.  You might be able to have the illusion of freedom for a while, but it is only an illusion.  I would prefer real freedom, but even in America we don't have that anymore.  While America is still one of the freest places on earth, it's no where near what it used to be because the government has continued to take power they were never intended to have under our system.  And unfortunately, the people keep letting them because they are promised so many goodies in exchange for losing just a little freedom.  But all those little freedom losses add up over time.  It's like the old story of cooking a frog by slowly turning up the temperature on the pot of water until finally it's too late for the frog to escape. 

I don't know where you live, or what your experience is.  But I do know it is very difficult to fully understand something that is foreign to your experience.  People are taught the wonders of socialism mostly by the socialists in power, trying to maintain their power.  It is a form of indoctrination, or brain washing.  If you are taught something over and over, especially from a young age it becomes very difficult to think outside of that box.  Our language defines our thinking.  If you don't have a word for something it's very difficult to think about it and understand it.  The socialists in power know this and that's why they love public education.  It gives them the power over all those young minds to mold them into the next generation of socialists.  another great read is George Orwell's 1984.  He got the date wrong, but he was right and that's where we are heading.  Look at political correctness for example, they are making many words unacceptable and changing the definition of others.  In 1984 they banned the word freedom so people couldn't even communicate the thought.  Today we are just changing the definition.  We aren't there yet, but that's the general direction of things, unless we wake up and change directions. 

For capitalism you have to believe in the power of individuals, not collectives.  Individual people making decisions to improve their own lives (you may call it greed, I call it enlightened self interest) makes the most efficient system.  Sure some will make mistakes, but humans learn from their mistakes, thus improving the system over time.  It allows for ultra fast reactions to new technology, unlike slow ponderous governments that have to change mountains of laws to accommodate new technology.  Frequently trying to limit them so they can protect their own interests in older systems, like using tax money to subsidize buggy whip manufactures because the new auto industry is hurting their business model.  This kind of garbage happens in government all the time, that's the crony capitalism I was talking about.  It's hugely wasteful. 

Capitalism is like evolution, survival of the fittest.  If you run your business poorly or a new competitor comes along you must adapt to survive, making you better in the process.  If you don't adapt, your business will fail and go extinct.  But if that happens you still have the opportunity to come back if you can come up with a better way to do things.  But in the end the customers all win because you keep getting better products at lower prices.  Yes, old business that fail to improve will fail, and really, that's a good thing.  And even for the people that were involved with the failed business, there is always another opportunity just around the corner.  That's why it works best for everyone, with the exception of the power freaks that want to control your life.  They hate it because they don't have control of everyone.  But everyone controls their own life.  The only ones that lose in capitalism are the ones that want others to pay for their lives.  They will have to work for a living.  Then there are people like me that are unable to work a normal job due to some medical issue.  But many of them can still find some niche that they can make a living at.  I continue to try to find things I can do.  sometimes I'm more successful than others, and there are times when I'm so incapacitated I can't really do much of anything.  But I have a wife that is very good at what she does and makes enough for both of us to survive on, and occasionally thrive on.  Our income goes up and down, we save in the good years and scrimp in the down years and we get by just fine.  Things aren't great for us at the moment.  My headaches have been bad for going on 12 years now without a remission, sometimes they are worse than others and things seem to be tapering off so I hope I'll be able to do more soon.  The economy has been pretty bad and my wife was without a job for 5 months last year so that wiped out all of our savings and put us in debt again, but she has a new contract job that hopefully will go permanent soon so hopefully we'll be able to pull out of it again. Overall we do better than many people, and much better than people that seem to be happy depending on the government to take care of them. 

Government is a monopoly.  They don't have to be good at what they do, they can, and do, waste money by the truckload.  They don't have to have good customer service because they are the only game in town.  They don't have a competitor to force them to do better.  You don't have a choice to take your business elsewhere to get better treatment. This is why the Soviet Union, North Korea, etc. close their borders and will not allow citizens to leave the country.  One of the brilliant things about the way the US was set up was that the individual states were set up as competitors too, just like businesses had competitors.  If a state mismanages it's people and over taxes, the people can pick up and move to anther state that is doing better.  This is why so many people and businesses are moving out of California and New York and moving to places like Texas and Florida.  The big problem is that the Federal Government has taken far more power than was ever intended.  The federal government was never meant to be much more than a defensive alliance between the states.  There was more to it than that of course, but it was never meant to have much power.  But governments always crave more power, and over time, they get it.

This is also the big draw of bitcoin!  Whether you realize it or not, a big part of what you love about bitcoin is the freedom it represents.

I'm starting to think maybe I should write a book... The problem is the people that need to read it wouldn't.


Korxax


1NtV1q29FtRAYAkMJHMYbASZLiLur2FQe

[giletto]

Socialism will NEVER work with humans.

As i said...

For humans Free Market Capitalism works...

not. As you can see. Or would you call this actually system "it work"?

But as i said many post ago, here is not a place to talk about such philosophy things, this thread is still for Antminer U1 chips. So let's be over it here. If you want talk more about, feel free to write me a PM.