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Author Topic: After China now Indian firms suspend digital currency trade after RBI notice  (Read 1131 times)
cuddaloreappu (OP)
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December 26, 2013, 04:38:11 PM
 #1

http://www.coindesk.com/reserve-bank-india-issues-virtual-currency-warning/

One such Indian firm suspending trade
https://buysellbitco.in/
cuddaloreappu (OP)
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December 27, 2013, 02:58:02 AM
 #2

http://www.thehindu.com/business/Industry/bitcoin-operators-shut-shops-in-india-amid-rbi-warning/article5504407.ece
bitcoinguru42
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December 27, 2013, 03:50:44 AM
 #3

I still can't understand why they would stop before being requested to do so, but then again India is corrupt as hell its possible they were threatened to close shop in private.
black_swan
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December 27, 2013, 03:56:26 AM
 #4

This is all FUD, they never said, as China, that financial services / banks cannot be used to buy cryptos.
I think this is quite clear from the statement posted on coindesk.
Also the statement is a nightmare, FUD after FUD

xwolf96
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December 27, 2013, 03:58:03 AM
 #5

Wow, So thats another 1.237 billion people in India to add on top of the 1.3 billion people in China. Thats a nice chunk of Earth's population. This will only slow cryptos acceptance.
bitcoinguru42
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December 27, 2013, 04:25:38 AM
 #6

Wow, So thats another 1.237 billion people in India to add on top of the 1.3 billion people in China. Thats a nice chunk of Earth's population. This will only slow cryptos acceptance.
bitcoin isn't dependant on exchanges u can use it by paying with cash and using localbitcoins.com which will make it almost excursively used for crime in these countries, which is what India doesn't want to happen I assume but they are really dumb
cuddaloreappu (OP)
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December 27, 2013, 04:48:30 AM
 #7

China and India both developing economy with high GDP growth does not accept digital currency..

my scary thought is what if one by one every nation start to ban virtual currencies....
bitcoinguru42
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December 27, 2013, 05:01:17 AM
 #8

China and India both developing economy with high GDP growth does not accept digital currency..

my scary thought is what if one by one every nation start to ban virtual currencies....
You forget that its widely believed that the black market is 33% of the worlds economy, if we can corner that market, others will follow. If we build it, they will come.
jonanon
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December 27, 2013, 05:02:38 AM
 #9

The whole idea of crypto for me is that if it is 'banned' we can continue to use it anyway as what on earth can be done to stop us?

 Wink
cuddaloreappu (OP)
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December 27, 2013, 05:28:11 AM
 #10

China and India both developing economy with high GDP growth does not accept digital currency..

my scary thought is what if one by one every nation start to ban virtual currencies....
You forget that its widely believed that the black market is 33% of the worlds economy, if we can corner that market, others will follow. If we build it, they will come.


Does this mean digital currencies only serve the black market?
what about the vision of everyone using bit coins for a local coffee shop to buying an apartment?
oxxymoronn
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December 27, 2013, 05:30:31 AM
 #11

Viva La Revolution!
DodoB
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December 27, 2013, 05:36:16 AM
 #12

bitcoin is even still rising and will keep rising
bitcoinguru42
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December 27, 2013, 05:41:04 AM
 #13

China and India both developing economy with high GDP growth does not accept digital currency..

my scary thought is what if one by one every nation start to ban virtual currencies....
You forget that its widely believed that the black market is 33% of the worlds economy, if we can corner that market, others will follow. If we build it, they will come.


Does this mean digital currencies only serve the black market?
what about the vision of everyone using bit coins for a local coffee shop to buying an apartment?


Not at all, its just we will have 1.3 times the amount of bitcoins being used because of the addition of the black market. Moving money shouldn't be illegal it should be the crime that is illegal but that is an opinion not shared by governments.
infinitybo
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December 27, 2013, 09:04:46 AM
 #14

China or India or whatever else are still using the same excuse just because they feel fear of the Bitcoin system.
Nite69
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December 27, 2013, 09:09:25 AM
 #15

One can use a hammer to build a house. One can also use hammer to kill people. Maybe India will next time declare hammers illegal?

Sync: ShiSKnx4W6zrp69YEFQyWk5TkpnfKLA8wx
Bitcoin: 17gNvfoD2FDqTfESUxNEmTukGbGVAiJhXp
Litecoin: LhbDew4s9wbV8xeNkrdFcLK5u78APSGLrR
AuroraCoin: AXVoGgYtSVkPv96JLL7CiwcyVvPxXHXRK9
grendel25
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December 27, 2013, 09:14:18 AM
 #16

It's very political and therefore very uncertain.  The best thing going for it right now is a recovering world economy.  Timing couldn't be better.  But, it's the people in our world that ultimately decide.  If you are lucky enough to live in a place where you vote in your leaders then be sure to tell them where you stand on virtual currencies.

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pokerFace2
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December 27, 2013, 09:31:02 AM
 #17

Does this mean digital currencies only serve the black market?

No, Bitcoin is about freedom. If goverment ban decentralized digital currencies, it just shows what they think about freedom
psijic
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December 27, 2013, 10:36:41 AM
 #18

At no point does the article state that virtual currency is banned in India. All the RBI did was issue a statement talking about the risks involved. These risks are already known to those of us who deal with, or have researched, virtual currency. But those who are new or uninformed, will definitely benefit from RBI's statement.

Every country will try to minimize money-laundering or illegal activities. Virtual currency is very difficult to trace; hence the scrutiny.

When they say that they may create some bitcoin related regulation, they are not saying that its going to be banned altogether. They just said that they are looking into it.

Quote
“The absence of information of counterparties in such peer-to-peer anonymous/ pseudonymous systems could subject the users to unintentional breaches of anti-money laundering and combating the financing of terrorism (AML/CFT) laws,” the bank warned.

All this is saying that the users could unintentionally breach these laws. Suppose I receive 500,000 in cash from a person. I do not wish to pay taxes on it. Since its cash, its not been reported to the government. If I find 10 to 15 bitcoin users willing to sell me bitcoins for cash, the individuals getting the cash are not getting enough to make ripples and cause the Income Tax department to look deeply into the source. Since I have bitcoins, I now have the ability to spend money that ideally should have been reported and taxed. This situation places the user in breach of the anti-laundering laws.

Similarly, in countries like India, which deal with terrorism constantly, the funding of terrorists by neighbouring nations or other hostile elements is a huge problem. Funding for terrorists is made difficult by keeping a close eye on large value transactions. How easy would it be to, lets say, set up a bitcoin gambling website, and use their funding network to funnel bitcoins (so as to make it difficult to track the source of bitcoins). These bitcoins can then be sent to any country where they can be distributed in small chunks to normal people, in exchange for cash. The people may never even realize that by purchasing bitcoins for cash, they could be funding an operation like this.



It is not a tool that is illegal. It is what can be done with it. This is the same reason owning weapons is illegal in most countries. You can perhaps trust one person with a gun. Can you trust that when one billion people own guns, no body is ever going to use them for any reason other than self-defense?

Similarly, you can perhaps trust a small community to use virtual currency responsibly, but can you trust everyone in the world to do so responsibly? No, and this is proven by the existence of occasional scammers even in these forums.



That said, please don't think that I am against virtual currency. I am completely fascinated by them, and am going to start mining them soon.

In my opinion, to completely ban virtual currency altogether, would definitely be a stupid thing to do. But I do believe that regulation in the form of perhaps prohibiting purchase/sale through hard cash, can be useful.

Quote
No, Bitcoin is about freedom. If goverment ban decentralized digital currencies, it just shows what they think about freedom

A small group of people who can conduct themselves responsibly may see freedom as an environment without rules. But when it comes to a large group, the same "lawless-freedom" will soon devolve into anarchy.



PS: I'm not trying to start a flame war here. This is just my opinion.

Let me know what you guys think about this. I would welcome a debate.

Cheers!
black_swan
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December 27, 2013, 11:48:39 AM
 #19

At no point does the article state that virtual currency is banned in India. All the RBI did was issue a statement talking about the risks involved. These risks are already known to those of us who deal with, or have researched, virtual currency. But those who are new or uninformed, will definitely benefit from RBI's statement.

Every country will try to minimize money-laundering or illegal activities. Virtual currency is very difficult to trace; hence the scrutiny.

When they say that they may create some bitcoin related regulation, they are not saying that its going to be banned altogether. They just said that they are looking into it.

Quote
“The absence of information of counterparties in such peer-to-peer anonymous/ pseudonymous systems could subject the users to unintentional breaches of anti-money laundering and combating the financing of terrorism (AML/CFT) laws,” the bank warned.

All this is saying that the users could unintentionally breach these laws. Suppose I receive 500,000 in cash from a person. I do not wish to pay taxes on it. Since its cash, its not been reported to the government. If I find 10 to 15 bitcoin users willing to sell me bitcoins for cash, the individuals getting the cash are not getting enough to make ripples and cause the Income Tax department to look deeply into the source. Since I have bitcoins, I now have the ability to spend money that ideally should have been reported and taxed. This situation places the user in breach of the anti-laundering laws.

Similarly, in countries like India, which deal with terrorism constantly, the funding of terrorists by neighbouring nations or other hostile elements is a huge problem. Funding for terrorists is made difficult by keeping a close eye on large value transactions. How easy would it be to, lets say, set up a bitcoin gambling website, and use their funding network to funnel bitcoins (so as to make it difficult to track the source of bitcoins). These bitcoins can then be sent to any country where they can be distributed in small chunks to normal people, in exchange for cash. The people may never even realize that by purchasing bitcoins for cash, they could be funding an operation like this.



It is not a tool that is illegal. It is what can be done with it. This is the same reason owning weapons is illegal in most countries. You can perhaps trust one person with a gun. Can you trust that when one billion people own guns, no body is ever going to use them for any reason other than self-defense?

Similarly, you can perhaps trust a small community to use virtual currency responsibly, but can you trust everyone in the world to do so responsibly? No, and this is proven by the existence of occasional scammers even in these forums.



That said, please don't think that I am against virtual currency. I am completely fascinated by them, and am going to start mining them soon.

In my opinion, to completely ban virtual currency altogether, would definitely be a stupid thing to do. But I do believe that regulation in the form of perhaps prohibiting purchase/sale through hard cash, can be useful.

Quote
No, Bitcoin is about freedom. If goverment ban decentralized digital currencies, it just shows what they think about freedom

A small group of people who can conduct themselves responsibly may see freedom as an environment without rules. But when it comes to a large group, the same "lawless-freedom" will soon devolve into anarchy.



PS: I'm not trying to start a flame war here. This is just my opinion.

Let me know what you guys think about this. I would welcome a debate.

Cheers!

Great post. As I wrote above, India did not ban BTC and you should get used to this kind of post very quickly, people love to to spread false information (FUD) to cause panic sell and buy lower. Back to your point, ban virtual currency altogether is possible but not doable. Look at the effort they put on music and movie piracy, most tracker are still out there because it's very difficult to filter internet traffic. What they can do is to make it impossible to acquire through financial institutions and banks, and that's what China just did
cuddaloreappu (OP)
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December 28, 2013, 03:30:36 AM
 #20

A couple of days after the Reserve Bank of India issued an advisory to public not to indulge in buying-selling of Bitcoins, the first raid in India was undertaken in Ahmedabad by Enforcement Directorate (ED) on an entity that provide platform to trade in this illegal but virtual currency.

On Thursday, ED raided the premises of Mahim Gupta in Bopal area of the city who provides trading platform through his website -‑ buysellbit.co.in. During the preliminary investigation, the ED found that it is in clear violation of Foreign Exchange Management Act (FEMA) act.

So Bitcoin transaction with anyone outside of the country = violation of FEMA act = illegal in india .

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-first-time-in-the-country-ed-raids-a-bitcoin-seller-in-ahmedabad-1941187
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