johnyj
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1012
Beyond Imagination
|
|
December 28, 2013, 03:45:07 AM |
|
Currently we are still in the period of large scale of ASIC devices roll out, after more ASIC manufacturers start to deliver, private mining pool's electricity and cooling capacity will quickly reach its limit
|
|
|
|
BitThink
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
|
|
December 28, 2013, 03:46:57 AM Last edit: December 28, 2013, 03:21:51 PM by BitThink |
|
I think it's necessary to highlight here: no miner can change the blockchain history or steal anyone's bitcoin even he has more than 51% of the hash rate. What he can do is only make several blocks mined recently become orphan. It means 1) he can try double spending, but not easy after enough number of confirmations. If there're too many confirmations, it takes long time for his fork to catch up. 2) he can block some accounts to make any transactions, but at a very high price. He has to make every block including that transaction orphan.
That's almost all he could do with more than 51% of hash rate.
|
|
|
|
btcrich
|
|
December 28, 2013, 09:23:46 AM |
|
I think it's necessary to highlight here: no miner can change the blockchain history or steal anyone's bitcoin even he has more than 51% of the hash rate. What he can do is only make several blocks mined recently become orphan. It means 1) he can try double spending, but not easy after enough number of confirmations. If there're too many confirmations, it takes long time for his fork to catch up. 2) he can block some accounts to make any transactions, but at a very high price. He has not make every block including that transaction orphan.
That's almost all he could do with more than 51% of hash rate.
True. Double spending would probably be the most that would be accomplished, as well as orphaning a few blocks mined by others. You can only double spend coins you own, so to even make a double spend worthwhile, you would already need to own a substantial amount if Bitcoin. If you did own that amount of Bitcoin, you probably wouldn't want to upset its value.
|
|
|
|
bitpop
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1060
|
|
December 28, 2013, 09:39:15 AM |
|
Seriously people stop letting them scam you.
|
|
|
|
jubalix
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1022
|
|
December 28, 2013, 09:40:01 AM |
|
A recent post from Reddit made me aware of that Bitcoin’s biggest flaw and threat which could crash the entire system, including the Bitcoin price, is now more current than ever. The threat is becoming even more real after months with Bitfury ASIC mining pool GHash.io gaining more and more hashing power. Now let me explain what is going on. Read the full story here: http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2013/12/26/biggest-flaw-bitcoin-crash-entire-system/What do you think of the threat that GHash.io is for the Bitcoin community? yawn PeerCoin solves this, and other pos
|
|
|
|
descarte
|
|
December 28, 2013, 03:11:28 PM |
|
anyone can really destroy bitcoin if they want to... seriously. Assuming NSA has 10nm technology and build thousands of miners and dont tell the world. THen create a new pool instantaneously with 10000000TH.
That will kill off the bitcoin mining straightway.
I believe they have the money, the brains and the capability. Why aren't they doing it?
|
|
|
|
Puppet
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
|
|
December 28, 2013, 03:26:21 PM |
|
NSA doesnt have 10nm. No one does. Not that you need it, 28nm would work just fine. ~100TH per wafer, just order a few 100 wafers at less than $4000 each, thats hardly the problem.
|
|
|
|
BitThink
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
|
|
December 28, 2013, 03:32:31 PM |
|
anyone can really destroy bitcoin if they want to... seriously. Assuming NSA has 10nm technology and build thousands of miners and dont tell the world. THen create a new pool instantaneously with 10000000TH.
That will kill off the bitcoin mining straightway.
I believe they have the money, the brains and the capability. Why aren't they doing it?
First, even with 1TH per chip, thousands of chips still are only several PH. You still need to build tens of thousands of chips overnight to get 51% hash rate. Second, not anyone can have the ability to have the technology, fund, product lines, and meanwhile keep confident for several months. Third, only countries like USA and China have the ability to do that, but even they really want to kill bitcoin they have much simpler ways.
|
|
|
|
BitThink
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
|
|
December 28, 2013, 03:37:50 PM |
|
NSA doesnt have 10nm. No one does. Not that you need it, 28nm would work just fine. ~100TH per wafer, just order a few 100 wafers at less than $4000 each, thats hardly the problem.
So you can easily get mining chips at $40/TH, or $0.04/GH. That's great, I bet you will be billionaire soon. Meanwhile, at the time you get 10 PH, the network hashing rate will definitely already 100 PH.
|
|
|
|
Gabi
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1008
If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat
|
|
December 28, 2013, 05:06:46 PM |
|
I think it's necessary to highlight here: no miner can change the blockchain history or steal anyone's bitcoin even he has more than 51% of the hash rate. What he can do is only make several blocks mined recently become orphan. It means 1) he can try double spending, but not easy after enough number of confirmations. If there're too many confirmations, it takes long time for his fork to catch up. 2) he can block some accounts to make any transactions, but at a very high price. He has not make every block including that transaction orphan.
That's almost all he could do with more than 51% of hash rate.
True. Double spending would probably be the most that would be accomplished, as well as orphaning a few blocks mined by others. You can only double spend coins you own, so to even make a double spend worthwhile, you would already need to own a substantial amount if Bitcoin. If you did own that amount of Bitcoin, you probably wouldn't want to upset its value. False, false, false. He can steal anyone's bitcoin and yes he can change the blockchain history. Upset the value? Exactly what banks and governments would like!
|
|
|
|
Voodah
|
|
December 28, 2013, 05:11:53 PM |
|
Upset the value? Exactly what banks and governments would like!
Only if you assume they cannot profit from BTC, which would in fact be easier for them to do.
|
|
|
|
Gabi
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1008
If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat
|
|
December 28, 2013, 05:29:09 PM |
|
Easier than just printing money? Than creating money? Nah
|
|
|
|
stompix
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2954
Merit: 6465
Blackjack.fun
|
|
December 28, 2013, 05:30:09 PM |
|
I think it's necessary to highlight here: no miner can change the blockchain history or steal anyone's bitcoin even he has more than 51% of the hash rate. What he can do is only make several blocks mined recently become orphan. It means 1) he can try double spending, but not easy after enough number of confirmations. If there're too many confirmations, it takes long time for his fork to catch up. 2) he can block some accounts to make any transactions, but at a very high price. He has not make every block including that transaction orphan.
That's almost all he could do with more than 51% of hash rate.
True. Double spending would probably be the most that would be accomplished, as well as orphaning a few blocks mined by others. You can only double spend coins you own, so to even make a double spend worthwhile, you would already need to own a substantial amount if Bitcoin. If you did own that amount of Bitcoin, you probably wouldn't want to upset its value. False, false, false. He can steal anyone's bitcoin and yes he can change the blockchain history. Upset the value? Exactly what banks and governments would like! Hmmm , we should correct the bitcopedia then? The attacker can't: Reverse other people's transactions Prevent transactions from being sent at all (they'll show as 0/unconfirmed) Change the number of coins generated per block Create coins out of thin air Send coins that never belonged to him
|
. .BLACKJACK ♠ FUN. | | | ███▄██████ ██████████████▀ ████████████ █████████████████ ████████████████▄▄ ░█████████████▀░▀▀ ██████████████████ ░██████████████ █████████████████▄ ░██████████████▀ ████████████ ███████████████░██ ██████████ | | CRYPTO CASINO & SPORTS BETTING | | │ | | │ | ▄▄███████▄▄ ▄███████████████▄ ███████████████████ █████████████████████ ███████████████████████ █████████████████████████ █████████████████████████ █████████████████████████ ███████████████████████ █████████████████████ ███████████████████ ▀███████████████▀ ███████████████████ | | .
|
|
|
|
Gabi
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1008
If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat
|
|
December 28, 2013, 05:43:40 PM |
|
Yes we should. Because it is wrong. Reverse other people's transactions Send coins that never belonged to him The attacker CAN do these things.
|
|
|
|
justusranvier
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1009
|
|
December 28, 2013, 05:52:11 PM |
|
Yes we should. Because it is wrong. Reverse other people's transactions Send coins that never belonged to him The attacker CAN do these things. Are you claiming that somebody broke ECDSA?
|
|
|
|
Gabi
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1008
If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat
|
|
December 28, 2013, 05:54:18 PM |
|
Yes we should. Because it is wrong. Reverse other people's transactions Send coins that never belonged to him The attacker CAN do these things. Are you claiming that somebody broke ECDSA? Where did i exactly claimed that? Please point me to that Because i never said that I just said the attacker can spend coins owned by other people
|
|
|
|
rarkenin
|
|
December 28, 2013, 07:44:48 PM |
|
You stated so indirectly. In order to steal coins from most transactions, ECDSA must be broken.
|
|
|
|
btcrich
|
|
December 28, 2013, 08:27:12 PM |
|
Yes we should. Because it is wrong. Reverse other people's transactions Send coins that never belonged to him The attacker CAN do these things. Are you claiming that somebody broke ECDSA? Where did i exactly claimed that? Please point me to that Because i never said that I just said the attacker can spend coins owned by other people Gabi, please tell me how it's possible to spend coins you don't own. It isn't possible. Unless you actually think that reversing a transaction is actually your victim sending coins back you you? It's just not the way it works.
|
|
|
|
Gabi
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1008
If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat
|
|
December 28, 2013, 08:48:20 PM |
|
You stated so indirectly. In order to steal coins from most transactions, ECDSA must be broken.
I never stated it, directly or indirectly. Nah you must not break it Yes we should. Because it is wrong. Reverse other people's transactions Send coins that never belonged to him The attacker CAN do these things. Are you claiming that somebody broke ECDSA? Where did i exactly claimed that? Please point me to that Because i never said that I just said the attacker can spend coins owned by other people Gabi, please tell me how it's possible to spend coins you don't own. It isn't possible. Unless you actually think that reversing a transaction is actually your victim sending coins back you you? It's just not the way it works. It is so easy and yes it is possible: just rewrite the chain from when these coins were mined. You will find the blocks, so you will have mined them, so they will be your. Thus, the other transactions never existed. That is how a 51% attack work, you can rewrite the chain as you wish. No need to break ECDSA. You just make it so you mined these coins. So you own them. 51% attack.
|
|
|
|
Voodah
|
|
December 28, 2013, 10:26:02 PM |
|
You stated so indirectly. In order to steal coins from most transactions, ECDSA must be broken.
I never stated it, directly or indirectly. Nah you must not break it Yes we should. Because it is wrong. Reverse other people's transactions Send coins that never belonged to him The attacker CAN do these things. Are you claiming that somebody broke ECDSA? Where did i exactly claimed that? Please point me to that Because i never said that I just said the attacker can spend coins owned by other people Gabi, please tell me how it's possible to spend coins you don't own. It isn't possible. Unless you actually think that reversing a transaction is actually your victim sending coins back you you? It's just not the way it works. It is so easy and yes it is possible: just rewrite the chain from when these coins were mined. You will find the blocks, so you will have mined them, so they will be your. Thus, the other transactions never existed. That is how a 51% attack work, you can rewrite the chain as you wish. No need to break ECDSA. You just make it so you mined these coins. So you own them. 51% attack. It is not as easy as you make it sound. It is not the same to change the last, current or next block than to change a given block in the past. Even if you've broken the encryption there's still a LOT more work involved.
|
|
|
|
|