Ripple #2 CoinMarketCap.com !

[MsCollec]

I think this is the only coin with a mining strategy that is actually good for the planet and humans.

not simply burning electricity

Just checked the website and "World Community Grid" etc.

You actually provide you processing power to research on cancer, AIDS, etc.  << how  b e a u t i f u l  is that

Mining XRP is a totally rip off,  you can't even cover the cost of electricity.  I

[HairyMaclairy]

Forget Bitcoin for a moment let's talk USD. 

Bob owes me $US100.  I don't know Bob but he says he will ripple me the money. 

In order for Bob to ripple me the $US100 I have to trust him for US$100 (you cannot ripple USD without trust). But what I don't know is that Bob has created a second account called Bob's_sock_puppet.  Bob has trusted Bob's_sock_puppet for $US 1 million.

You don't know Bob but you trust him for $100? Pretty stupid move. Don't do that. Not in real life, not in Ripple.
Apart from that, you really don't care whether Bob trusts his own sock puppet for $1000000, as you don't have any trust relationship with his sock puppet.

At 9.10 am I trust Bob for $US100.  At 9.12 am Bob's_sock_puppet ripples me for $US100. 

Now Bob owes me $100 and Bob's_sock_puppet also owes me $100.  Both then default and I am twice as worse off as before. 

What do you mean by "Bob's_sock_puppet ripples me"? Do you have any business relationship with Bob's_sock_puppet?

Let me know if I have misunderstood the mechanics. 

Yes. Completely.

The only situation in which you should extend trust to a ripple account is when you are really sure that the owner of this account will pay his dues *in real life* whenever you request that payment.
That means that you can trust a gateway for $100 if you can get those $100 in real life from that gateway. For example, you could trust bitstamp for USD when you have a bitstamp account and you know that you can withdraw $100 from said account.

If you want to receive USD in Ripple from a stranger, request that he sends it to you in a currency issued by someone you trust, for example Bitstamp. He can then buy Bitstamp USD within Ripple using whatever currency he manages to get into Ripple (for example, DividendRippler BTC or LTC). Of course, he can use his own Bitstamp account just as well if he happens to have one. But what you end up with is $100 USD issued by Bitstamp, not Bob. And unless Bitstamp goes belly-up (which is of course a possibility, shit tends to happen) you can withdraw the $100 from Bitstamp anytime you want to.

Onkel Paul

Thank you this has been a highly educational experience so far. 

So lesson 1 is I would be a fool to use Ripple as a peer to peer payment protocol.  Instead I should use trusted gateways.

So Bob will pay my gateway in USD and my gateway will issue me an IOU. My gateway will then spend Bob's USD on pizza and beer.  So long as my gateway issues IOUs faster than funds are redeemed the beer and pizza will keep flowing.  If redemptions get too much they can always do a Gox and slow down fiat withdrawals. 

This sounds marvellous.  I am eager to set up Hairy Gateway right away.  I will issue Hairy USD to all comers. I will also set up another gateway called Bitfin which issues BitYuan and another called Doge Gateway which deals in Doge coins.  To show how trustworthy this all is Bitfin will trust Hairy and Hairy will trust Doge.  As a New Years special everyone that trusts Doge will get 1 Doge coin.

Please tell me more about your accreditation process for gateways.  I have an extensive criminal history for financial fraud so I hope you will not do extensive due diligence or run a criminal record check on me.  Even if you do I will just register the gateway in the name of my 12 year old cousin who has never been caught. 

When my gateways all blow up, I will start new ones with new fancy names and special promotions. 

Looking forward to receiving more information about becoming a gateway king.

[Slingshot]

To Ripple,

Questions:

1. How do we sell Bitcoins for USD/EUR/etc. with Ripple, and how will we receive those usd funds, and how do we send off those Bitcoins?

2. How do we purchase Bitcoins for USD with Ripple, and how will we send those funds and receive our Bitcoins? How will the other party send their end of the trade?

3. How do we trade crypto-coin types through Ripple? How are they sent and received? How do we proceed?

4. How do we make a payment to someone else with Ripple? And how do we send that payment, and how does the recipient receive that payment?


Lay all the above out in simple to follow instructions and we have a brand new ballgame called Ripple. But until then it's not ready for prime time.


 So first answer here those four questions above in examples laid out here and by doing so many here will start utilizing the Ripple Network that still don't grasp yet how it all functions and works, let alone how to do these things.

 Please lay out the example answers utilizing a Ripple account, a SnapSwap account, and Bitstamp account, all as may be required, so that many of us that are already geared up with all those mentioned accounts (like myself) and seemingly ready for utilizing the Ripple Network can swiftly grasp how to make Ripple service their needs.

 So far it's far too unclear how to do any of this. Please advise.

BTW: I have a Ripple account, fully funded. Thank You for that!


What else Ripple must do to make this a prime time hit:
===================================

1. Make the Ripple Network easy to understand and use.

2. Create a clear and Complete Users Manual with Index and Glossary.
    And with a Help & Troubleshooting section, and a section laid out with
    clear examples of how to do things such as the above four questions.

3. Create a Quick Start Guide.


Best Regards to Ripple,


Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware!

[Sukrim]

To Ripple,

Questions:

1. How do we sell Bitcoins for USD/EUR/etc. with Ripple, and how will we receive those usd funds, and how do we send off those Bitcoins?

2. How do we purchase Bitcoins for USD with Ripple, and how will we send those funds and receive our Bitcoins? How will the other party send their end of the trade?

3. How do we trade crypto-coin types through Ripple? How are they sent and received? How do we proceed?

4. How do we make a payment to someone else with Ripple? And how do we send that payment, and how does the recipient receive that payment?


Lay all the above out in simple to follow instructions and we have a brand new ballgame called Ripple. But until then it's not ready for prime time.


 So first answer here those four questions above in examples laid out here and by doing so many here will start utilizing the Ripple Network that still don't grasp yet how it all functions and works, let alone how to do these things.

 Please lay out the example answers utilizing a Ripple account, a SnapSwap account, and Bitstamp account, all as may be required, so that many of us that are already geared up with all those mentioned accounts (like myself) and seemingly ready for utilizing the Ripple Network can swiftly grasp how to make Ripple service their needs.

 So far it's far too unclear how to do any of this. Please advise.

BTW: I have a Ripple account, fully funded. Thank You for that!


What else Ripple must do to make this a prime time hit:
===================================

1. Make the Ripple Network easy to understand and use.

2. Create a clear and Complete Users Manual with Index and Glossary.
    And with a Help & Troubleshooting section, and a section laid out with
    clear examples of how to do things such as the above four questions.

3. Create a Quick Start Guide.


Best Regards to Ripple,


Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware!

Well, I'm not "Ripple", just like you are not "Bitcoin", but here are my answers to your questions.

It is assumed that you have the following setup:
A Ripple account (Address: r123foobar) with ~100 XRP that you somehow got (e.g. giveaway or you bought them from Bitstamp).
A trust line (and account) with SnapSwap for USD/SnapSwap of up to 1000 USD.
A trust line (and account) with Bitstamp for BTC/Bitstamp of up to 5 BTC.
The current market price for 1 BTC is assumed to be 700 USD per BTC.
You have a US based bank account with 500 USD and are able to send funds from there via bank wire to SnapSwap.
You have 3 BTC in your local wallet and are able to send them to any address you like on the block chain.

1.)
* transfer your BTC from your local wallet to Bitstamp's deposit address (log into your account on Bitstamp to check for yours)
* withdraw your deposited BTC from Bitstamp to your Ripple address
* send a payment in USD to SnapSwap's address, using your unique identifier ("destination tag") as per their instructions. Ripple will ask you which currency/currrencies you want to use to pay for this --> select BTC/Bitstamp.
* You now should have received USD in your SnapSwap account, I am not sure how they do withdrawal (as I don't use them), I would imagine you log into yuor account there and have the choice to move the USD to a bank account of your choice or some account that you pre-registered with them when setting up your account there.

2.)
* Send USD to SnapSwap's bank account (again, no idea how they work in detail, I imagine you have to send a bank wire and mention an account ID or so in the transaction?)
* Withdraw the USD from SnapSwap to your Ripple address (probably they have something for this in their interface?)
* (Here you can either just use Bitstamp's Bitcoin bridge or your Bitstamp account explicitly, I'll use the latter.) Pay the amount of BTC you want to trade to Bitstamp's address, using your destination tag (again, check Bitstamp's instructions of how to deposit funds to them via Ripple), Ripple will offer you to pay in USD/SnapSwap, select this.
* Withdraw your BTC from your Bitstamp account to any Bitcoin address of your choice

The other party is any liquidity provider on Ripple, they are only important to set prices, you do not need to trust them or care about them. They previously have deposited funds at either gateway and offer these to you in exchange for what you have. They set up a trade offer for that on the ledger and it can be executed whenever needed, they don't need to get active for that.

3.)
* Find a gateway you trust (a gateway is similar to a "webwallet" provider or an exchange website - whenever you can "deposit" coins, this could be a gateway operator in Ripple too that you apparently trust to some extent with your coins) that allows deposits in whatever coin you want to deposit.
* After depositing your coins with that gateway, they will issue you the sent amount on Ripple and you can start trading, make markets or just hold the balance on Ripple. They most likely will also offer you to send you the coins on the respective block chain if you want to withdraw your balance from Ripple. How this happens in detail depends on the gateway.

4.)
* Get the Ripple address of the person you want to send something to.
* go to https://ripple.com/client/#/send (or something similar on whatever client you use) and enter the address there, then select the currency you want to use and the amount.
* click on "send [currency]" and you will go to a confirmation screen where you can decide which path should be used or which of your currencies actually should be used to pay for this.
* confirm and done - your selected payment amount is gone and traded for whatever your recipient wanted to receive and it has been credited in her/his account.


Some notes:
While it is easy to use Ripple as an exchange, its big advantage lies in being able to settle payments using whatever you want to pay for whatever the other party wants to receive. If Ripple gained widespread use, not "Bitcoin" would be out of business, but BitPay! You as a bitcoiner would likely have your largest part of coins in cold storage and a few on Ripple, paying whatever you want to pay for with these off the blockchain. From time to time (if you receive a big amount of BTC or are running low on funds) you would do a (slow and expensive) transaction on the blockchain to top up either your cold or Ripple wallet.
Currently it is very easy to bridge from Ripple to Bitcoin, so if you for example are somehow bearish on BTC (and are afraid they might crash any time) you can hold USD on Ripple but still pay to any BTC address with ease in case you want to buy something for BTC. Maybe soon someone will do the same for e.g. LTC, then it would be much easier for people to actually use their LTC for payment and keep them in LTC for the longest amount of time possible, just converting what they actually need right now.
The nice thing with cryptocurrencies is that they are very "binary" in the sense of receiving them and owning them, so gateways are more comfortable to use them for deposits than e.g. PayPal. Also they are less regulated, so AML/KYC is sometimes not that much of a concern... Still RippleLabs is trying very hard to also venture towards fiat gateways instead of optimizing Ripple for cryptocurrencies, which again might be a bit off-putting for Bitcoin enthusiasts. In the end it still means that everybody wins, since fiat enthusiats can easily pay in BTC via Ripple right now and hopefully in the future hardcore Bitcoiners can use a lot of fiat payments networks settling in BTC (e.g. an outgoing PayPal gateway would enable anyone to pay ANY FREAKIN' PAYPAL MERCHANT in BTC or LTC or Deogecoins or NXT or... on your end while they don't even realize it!)

[Slingshot]

To: Sukrim,

+1


 Thank you Sukrim. Now I see how to do exactly what is needed, and why, and what for. OMG this could be HUGE!

 But it's not easy to grasp for some of us, even knowing all that I already knew and fully understood. Nor easy to explain to others.

 But this has enormous potential. And I can vividly see myself utilizing this in 2014 for exiting at least a few bitcoin to dollars as desired. And maybe other various needs as they might arise when those times come too.


 Wow, at first your reply seemed daunting but then I realized that 1, 2, 3, and 4, in your reply were the answers to each of my questions respectively of course. And not just 4 long steps to process one single thing, lol, which at first glace really had me shaking my head O NO...

 After reading answer 1, for my first question now I get it. And how to do what I need to do. Thank You!

 Yes, I have all the required accounts. Funny how Ripple kinda rippled me and a lot of others into to these accounts, lol. What with first their giveaway to us here at bitcointalk.org early in 2013 that required me to open a Ripple account. Then with their smaller giveaway for opening a Snapswap account had me open a SnapSwap account for that bonus giveaway. And finally me wising up and getting a Bitstamp account instead of the alternatives. So now with my Bitstamp account I have a Ripple Gateway through Bitstamp too. Wow, yes, I am ready to utilize Ripple. Hurray! I hope!


 I believe many others that visit your post here above can finally vividly see why Ripple may indeed be a real game-changer for payments and transfers. Much like being an advanced internet postal system of sorts for such needs, just as previously mentioned many times before, but not anywhere near as easy to grasp what to do and how to do it.

 So now USING Ripple makes sense to myself, and is a hands down improvement over bank wires if all goes smoothly. And how it can easily avoid international bank wires when and if I decide to sell some bitcoin for dollars through for instance Bitstamp.com

 That's a huge improvement over bank wires in both time and hopefully costs too, if like I said it all functions well. Of course you know this already! Now others might grasp what Ripple can do too, for everyone. I realized it had game-changing potential but it's not easy to rap one's head around it from the outside looking in.

 Thanks Again Sukrim, that was a great help!


Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware!

[xocel]

Thanks for clarifying things. Could be interesting, however as a service provider, what benefits does accepting ripple as payment have?

My main concerns/questions

* this introduces a middlemen into the equation (bitstamp etc) cost of my service would have to increase to cover their cut.
* why should I or my clients trust these middlemen?
* currently myself and the majority of my clients are based in NZ. None of the middlemen are. How do I convince my clients to send their funds to a 3rd party overseas to pay me?
* how do i teach my clients to use ripple?
* how are conversion rates determined?

e.g If I charge 1 btc (+middleman fees) and a client pays in ltc, at which point is the ltc amount calculated? during invoice, or payment?

Edit: also, If i trust only middleman A, my client trusts only middleman B, but middleman A and B trust each other. Would my client be able to pay me? or do I need to trust every middleman to accept payment from all potential ripple users?

[ahbritto]

I invested $5,000 during the launch of Ripple, honestly if i had used that same cash on WDC that was selling then @ $0.02 you all know what returns i will have now on my money, but ripple is more focused on the big investor Google Venture. I lost hope when i saw this tweet #1 mission of @RippleLabs is not #XRP value, but to advance @Ripple #protocol as payment system, making money transacting as easy as #email and i sold all my XRP.
 
https://twitter.com/XRPRipple/status/413372728914108416

That account isn't associated with Ripple Labs and does not speak for Ripple Labs.

Ripple Labs funds its operations by selling XRP.

[ethought]

ripple is centralized garbage , I'll stick with LTC and BTC before I ever invest in this crap.

+1

[Fraxinus]

ripple is centralized garbage , I'll stick with LTC and BTC before I ever invest in this crap.

+1

+1

[Ebrelus]

ripple is centralized garbage , I'll stick with LTC and BTC before I ever invest in this crap.

+1

+1

+1

[wachtwoord]

I do not consider Ripple a cryptocurrency. I'd rather hold DOGE and that's saying something (I hold neither)

[Slingshot]

 Maybe to all those negative comments they should first learn exactly what Ripple is, and what it's not?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Maybe some should not take previous negative comments which are mere disinformation and misinformation at face value from the previous slants and slights concerning Ripple! In other words Ripple is quite possibly a real game-changer for payment services. It appears to be just that, once one finally understands what it can do, and how to do it.


 Of course for all those doubters by all means keep supporting the Banksters, and keep paying their outrageous fees for bank wires, and other such banking services.

 And keep right on letting your governments borrow your own traditional fiat currencies into their mere existence from those Banksters so all of you can keep paying extreme amounts of usury levels of interest payments into perpetuity, as well as continue to be buried under ever more UN-payable debts to these banksters. And all  for the mere privilege of utilizing the banksters currency loaned out to all of you. Not to mention supporting the number one enemy of all Crypto (Banksters). In other words Ripple is trying to supersede the banks, western union, pay pal, and the like. Or didn't the doubters understand this either. Ripple is their competition, and not really Bitcoins and other Crypto-Currencies competition at all, but instead the railroad tracks to everywhere so that these Crypto's can be fully utilized. Either that or I still confused about Ripple, yet I am not wrong, others are clearly wrong instead.


 Hint: Ripple isn't a mere crypto currency per say, not really meant to be simply that, but instead much more like an electronic postage stamp to enable the Ripple Payment Network System. But try getting that across to many seems daunting at best.

 Sure ripple as a payment system isn't easy to first grasp for many, including myself.

 But if it can offer what it appears to be able to offer than any of these larger Ripple Gateways such as the #1 safest Fiat to Bitcoin exchange at https://www.bitstamp.net/ and the already established https://www.snapswap.us/#/welcome Ripple Gateway, well both seem and appear to be worlds better than giving even another zinc penny to another criminal bankster. Or doesn't it?

 Please, by all means chime in unless your really criminal banksters and their ilk! And by all means do as one pleases just in case one would rather side with the international Criminal Bankster Cartels and take their chances they too don't get made fully obsolete, or otherwise buried by the information revolution that has fully the criminal banksters for what they truly are.

 The worst crimes in modern history concerns what the Criminal Bankster Cartels have done to financially enslave nations. Indeed the entire world. And now we have to hear what from whom? WTF are you thinking? O wait, your not.

 It's truly amazing what is stated around here. There must be a lot of bankster types here spreading disinformation and misinformation...
=====================================================================================


Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware!

[Sukrim]

Seriously, could the "RIPPLE = SCAM" people calm down a bit?

You have been heard loud and clear by now and are just spamming the thread with 0 new information other than declaring your personal opinion.

Thanks for clarifying things. Could be interesting, however as a service provider, what benefits does accepting ripple as payment have?

Ripple is more similar to BitPay than Bitcoin, so you as a business owner would be interested in accepting any kind of payment but receiving USD. You would likely NOT accept XRP as currency but rather find a trustworthy gateway and accept USD from them (BitPay is the "gateway" for a readily made BTC --> USD market for example).

0. this introduces a middlemen into the equation (bitstamp etc) cost of my service would have to increase to cover their cut.
1. why should I or my clients trust these middlemen?
2. currently myself and the majority of my clients are based in NZ. None of the middlemen are. How do I convince my clients to send their funds to a 3rd party overseas to pay me?
3. how do i teach my clients to use ripple?
4. how are conversion rates determined?

0. is not really a question but yes, in the end you will have some costs probably for withdrawing money from your gateway, just like right now it might cost you money to withdraw from a Bitcoin exchange. You could try to leave all/a part of that money on Ripple and pay whatever you need to pay for with this, in the end however receiving money likely is never totally for free and/or risk free, even in a pure Bitcoin setting. Ripple won't change that.

1. You should trust them (actually in most cases you only need to trust a single gateway, which I think you mean when you say "middleman") because they are based in your local jurisdiction, licensed as money service provider and have a good track record as well as doing good service. Gateways are even a little bit "less" than a Bitcoin exchange (they only need to deal in one single currency and offer a very limited service range - deposit and withdrawal) so if you have trusted Bitcoin exchanges or merchant services so far, use the same measures you used to trust these ones to also find a trusted gateway. Your clients can use this or any other gateway on Ripple, as long as there is a market somehow between the 2 currencies (e.g. BTC by Bitstamp can be somehow traded for USD by Peercover) they are able to pay you.

2. This is a business opportunity, gateways do not need to deal with BTC or anything not known to local regulators at all, so it should be relatively straightforward for any enterpreneur to set up a small business that processes NZD deposits and withdrawals to Ripple. Until this is the case, you can use whatever gateway you trust and that can actually wire you money, your customers could for example use BTC to pay you then. Lack of local gateways is currently one of the problems of Ripple, but businesses don't pop up over night after all. If you serve a very local market by the way, I am wondering why you are even on a Bitcoin forum, I'm sure there are local payment networks in NZ that are more useful and trusted than either Ripple and BTC - Ripple might help you in the future, BTC might be appealing to you because of philisophical reasons or whatever else, both are likely not THAT great if you just have a very domestic market until any of them have a FAR larger market share than currently.

3. Hard to say, to just enable payments, you can simply give them a link/URL (https://ripple.com/wiki/Ripple_URIs) that they can click on and their preferred client pops up. To really teach them all about the system might be a bit out of scope for a merchant, I guess? Unfortunately guides etc. for end users are as rare as for Bitcoin in its infancy, Ripple currently struggles more with getting gateways and market makers on board than convincing merchants - I wouldn't recommend very much to only rely on Ripple as payment network right now, maybe keep it as an option for the future, similar to pure Bitcoin payments (it took Coinbase and BitPay also some time to get traction even in the tiny Bitcoin ecosystem). My guess is that within 1-2 years the focus will shift from the more backend and trading side towards end user and merchant integration, the speed of that will be determined by adoption from gateways and traders.

4. By open markets, anyone that wants to can provide liquidity and make markets within Ripple, currently also quite easily in a relatively anonymous way (you don't need to register with Bitstamp to buy their USD on Ripple for example - you will need to do KYC though to withdraw them to your bank account later, if you want to do that). Market depth is actually a concern (even still with Bitcoin), the big difference to the (if you use the ripplescam.org pictures) "distributed" Bitcoin exchange market is that Ripple's markets are far more interconnected and there might be several paths to use for trades than just a single order book between currencyA and currencyB.

[hypostatization]

People throw around claims of centralization. I am hoping to expose more people to this lower level discussion, which helps clear up many misconceptions:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6867324

Ripple and Bitcoin are radically different. They focus on solving different problems of centralization. Everyone recognizes centralized exchanges are a serious issue for cryptos. If you trade cryptos on any closed exchange site---you are embracing closed IOU systems, per exchange. Closed Bitcoin payment systems are the next major coming centralization threat to Bitcoin and Cryptos. Ripple addresses both.

Ripple and Bitcoin each support decentralization via different means, and at different levels.

Ripple has massive potential to complement Bitcoin, Alts, and all currencies. Pay for goods using any currency. XRP is one component of the powerful network and protocol that it provides.

[NWO]

ripple is centralized garbage , I'll stick with LTC and BTC before I ever invest in this crap.

+1

+1

+1

Excellent. Four people who are illiterate and haven't done their homework (how embarrassing). Go run your own Ripple node and then come back.

I dare you.

[pinnpe]

Ripple needs Authy.com and a way to import your Ripple backup wallet...

Great that I can donate my computingpower to science, but who cares....
I won't lie it's a good system and well worth investing in....

[add1ct3dd]

Ripple, such a lovely scam.

Ripplescam.org.

That is all.

[hypostatization]

Ripple, such a lovely scam.

Ripplescam.org.

That is all.

Inaccurate and outdated.

Source code: https://github.com/ripple

Informative discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6867324 (clears many misconceptions)

[ZeroTheGreat]

XRPs not so intresting, but Ripple can become a huge exchange.

[Sukrim]

Ripple needs Authy.com and a way to import your Ripple backup wallet...

Feel free to submit a pull request then, the client was open source from the beginning by the way:
https://github.com/ripple/ripple-client