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Author Topic: Ripple #2 CoinMarketCap.com !  (Read 9182 times)
HairyMaclairy
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December 30, 2013, 09:35:06 AM
 #41

If I trust Ripple China for USD and I trust Bitstamp for USD, then USD payments can ripple through me.

Do I need to be registered as a money transmitter under US law (FINCEN) or Chinese law (SAFE)?

Is this on the list of prohibited activities for foreigners in China?  

Do I need to maintain minimum registered capital under Chinese law?

How do I comply with KYC and AML if I have no idea who is rippling through me?

Do I need to comply with Chinese foreign currency law as a third party payment processor? Does this mean I am prohibited from dealing in Bitcoin under the PBOC directive?

Am I carrying on a business in the US?  Am I carrying on a business in China?  What are the tax consequences in each jurisdiction?
El Dude
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December 30, 2013, 09:43:09 AM
 #42


Excellent. Four people who are illiterate and haven't done their homework (how embarrassing). Go run your own Ripple node and then come back.

I dare you.

90 billion ripple are owned by the top 15 holders. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ap6WwaNTa-L3dHFhMWtEM251akdrLXo0TmVYa0RmS3c#gid=0

keep spreading your lies that won't make the ripple price go higher.

Bitcoin and Litecoin hodler
Sukrim
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December 30, 2013, 10:58:32 AM
 #43

If I trust Ripple China for USD and I trust Bitstamp for USD, then USD payments can ripple through me.
Unless you set a no-ripple flag, yes (also you get wanrd about that by the client). Why would you trust someone in China for USD though?!

Do I need to be registered as a money transmitter under US law (FINCEN) or Chinese law (SAFE)?
As a user or a gateway? Please talk to a lawyer about this.

Is this on the list of prohibited activities for foreigners in China?  
Have a look on that list... There are several Ripple gateways in China who operate already for quite some time (in CNY though). I have no idea how they deal with foreigners, if you speak chinese, please contact them.

Do I need to maintain minimum registered capital under Chinese law?
Ask a lawyer, not in a forum thread about a page that re-listed Ripple.

How do I comply with KYC and AML if I have no idea who is rippling through me?
Ask a lawyer, not in a forum thread about a page that re-listed Ripple. I have no idea of your jurisdiction you're in, so there's that...

Do I need to comply with Chinese foreign currency law as a third party payment processor? Does this mean I am prohibited from dealing in Bitcoin under the PBOC directive?
I am still not sure what you want to be? A simple user of Ripple, a gateway or a market maker... gateways might have issues in China if they allow Bitcoin deposits and withdrawals. If their users buy BTC with CNY deposited on Ripple however, there's nothing they can do about it.

Am I carrying on a business in the US?  Am I carrying on a business in China?  What are the tax consequences in each jurisdiction?
Just by denominating something in USD does not mean you do business in the US, I am not so sure what you are trying to do though.


In the end I would anyways not recommend to trust multiple issuers for one currency on Ripple unless you really know what you are doing and want to accomplish. If you are happy with either Bitstamp or RippleChina's USD, why would you need both? Also if you are concerned or unsure about the default implicit 1:1 market making, just disable it.

https://www.coinlend.org <-- automated lending at various exchanges.
https://www.bitfinex.com <-- Trade BTC for other currencies and vice versa.
Fraxinus
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December 30, 2013, 11:09:33 AM
 #44


Excellent. Four people who are illiterate and haven't done their homework (how embarrassing). Go run your own Ripple node and then come back.

I dare you.

90 billion ripple are owned by the top 15 holders. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ap6WwaNTa-L3dHFhMWtEM251akdrLXo0TmVYa0RmS3c#gid=0

keep spreading your lies that won't make the ripple price go higher.

Again +1

This is really the opposite of what cryptocurrency's were made for.
If i wanted to have a currency where the 0,1% (or in this case 0,01%) has 99% of the money i wouldn't have invested my money in crypto's.

Stop spreading your propaganda for your coin that stands exactly for what is wrong with our economy.

Great site for those who are not blinded by all the bullshit that is being rubbed in their eyes:

http://ripplescam.org/

OnkelPaul
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December 30, 2013, 11:24:51 AM
 #45

Great site for those who are not blinded by all the bullshit that is being rubbed in their eyes:

http://ripplescam.org/

Oh why don't people read what others have already said about this. This site contains mostly misinformation and is designed to spread FUD.
The author of that site (TradeFortress) had a vested interest in damaging Ripple because it's a competitor to part of his own business.
Guess what? People who trusted TradeFortress have lost a lot of money to a dubious hack, there are accusations against him floating around but I've not followed them enough to make a sound judgement, so I just leave it as it is.
At the end of the day, trusting Ripple Labs was a lot wiser than trusting TradeFortress.

Onkel Paul

Fraxinus
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December 30, 2013, 11:33:08 AM
 #46

Great site for those who are not blinded by all the bullshit that is being rubbed in their eyes:

http://ripplescam.org/

Oh why don't people read what others have already said about this. This site contains mostly misinformation and is designed to spread FUD.
The author of that site (TradeFortress) had a vested interest in damaging Ripple because it's a competitor to part of his own business.
Guess what? People who trusted TradeFortress have lost a lot of money to a dubious hack, there are accusations against him floating around but I've not followed them enough to make a sound judgement, so I just leave it as it is.
At the end of the day, trusting Ripple Labs was a lot wiser than trusting TradeFortress.

Onkel Paul

I'm not saying i trust TradeFortress, but i found the info about what ripple was interesting to say the least.
So are you saying that what info there is on ripplescam is false?

Also misinformation or not, having 0,01% having practicely all the coins says enough to me to stay away from it.

Sukrim
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December 30, 2013, 11:58:39 AM
 #47

So are you saying that what info there is on ripplescam is false?

* Ripple is fully open source since September 2013 (https://github.com/ripple)
* Ripple is fully able to be decentralized, currently a lot of validators (out of free will) put RippleLabs in their UNL though. This has nothing to do with whatever RippleLabs puts in their ripple.txt file on their website and it is NOT hard coded anywhere (check the source code).
* Issuing 1 billion BTC to yourself on ripple is just like writing a check to yourself for 1 billion USD - you first have to find someone who actually trusts you and gives you anything in return. If I sell an account on BitcoinChina with 50 million BTC as balance, would you buy it or would you mistrust BitcoinChina to have their books in order...?
* The example with MtGox loosing funds is especially weird, as it is exactly the same thing that happened with his own service. Also BTC on Ripple are as "real" as BTC on MtGox - you have no control over the underlying asset that you moved somewhere to be able to trade it. Ripple does not affect Bitcoins you have and gateways can only own Bitcoins you send them.
* Trusting multiple issuers in one currency gives a big fat warning sign in the client now, also it is possible to disable this default behaviour.
* You pay trading fees (more than 0.2% by the way) when trading on Bitstamp itself, also quite a few gateways now already have vowed to charge 0% transaction fees on their balances.
* XRP are given away for free or next to nothing, I never paid for any of them. Also having a business model does not make something a scam.

https://www.coinlend.org <-- automated lending at various exchanges.
https://www.bitfinex.com <-- Trade BTC for other currencies and vice versa.
HairyMaclairy
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December 30, 2013, 12:11:32 PM
Last edit: December 30, 2013, 12:21:39 PM by HairyMaclairy
 #48

If I trust Ripple China for USD and I trust Bitstamp for USD, then USD payments can ripple through me.
Unless you set a no-ripple flag, yes (also you get wanrd about that by the client). Why would you trust someone in China for USD though?!

It is just an example.  It applies equally to trusting both Bitstamp and BTC-E for USD.  The issue is ordinary users inadvertently being caught by cross border financial control legislation.  

Do I need to be registered as a money transmitter under US law (FINCEN) or Chinese law (SAFE)?
s a user or a gateway? Please talk to a lawyer about this.

As a user.  It has been repeatedly said that funds will ripple through users' accounts if they link to two gateways in the same currency.  Accordingly is a user who trusts two gateways in the same currency a money transmitter?  Ripple is building the system - I hope they have thought about this.  

Is this on the list of prohibited activities for foreigners in China?  
Have a look on that list... There are several Ripple gateways in China who operate already for quite some time (in CNY though). I have no idea how they deal with foreigners, if you speak chinese, please contact them.

The issue here is that Ripple could get getting ordinary users into a world of hurt without the users having any idea.

Do I need to maintain minimum registered capital under Chinese law?
Ask a lawyer, not in a forum thread about a page that re-listed Ripple.

Well I need to ask somewhere because I have spent hours reading Ripple information and I haven't found the answer yet. The point is that if I am issuing an IOU to Ripple China due to a transfer from Bitstamp rippling through me I don't know what that means for me under Chinese law.  

How do I comply with KYC and AML if I have no idea who is rippling through me?
Ask a lawyer, not in a forum thread about a page that re-listed Ripple. I have no idea of your jurisdiction you're in, so there's that...

Technically speaking if you are dealing in US dollars then US law applies.  If you don't believe me take it up with FINCEN.  So that means I have to comply with US KYC and AML if I am a money transmitter.  The fact that many don't is irrelevant - we are trying to avoid ordinary users getting into regulatory trouble. 

Do I need to comply with Chinese foreign currency law as a third party payment processor? Does this mean I am prohibited from dealing in Bitcoin under the PBOC directive?
I am still not sure what you want to be? A simple user of Ripple, a gateway or a market maker... gateways might have issues in China if they allow Bitcoin deposits and withdrawals. If their users buy BTC with CNY deposited on Ripple however, there's nothing they can do about it.

Just a user.  I would strongly suggest that the Chinese government can do something about it.  Like putting the employees of Ripple China in prison for breaking Chinese law as a starter.  Look at "Stern Hu" on Wikipedia for a story about what they do to foreign company employees who piss them off.  

Am I carrying on a business in the US?  Am I carrying on a business in China?  What are the tax consequences in each jurisdiction?
Just by denominating something in USD does not mean you do business in the US, I am not so sure what you are trying to do though.

Yes but remember I am issuing IOUs for USD under the Ripple system as an ordinary user when a transaction ripples through me.


In the end I would anyways not recommend to trust multiple issuers for one currency on Ripple unless you really know what you are doing and want to accomplish. If you are happy with either Bitstamp or RippleChina's USD, why would you need both? Also if you are concerned or unsure about the default implicit 1:1 market making, just disable it.

Look I get that (now) it just seems like there is an entire world of regulatory issues here that have not been explored or closed out. It is obviously impractical for users to consult lawyers before trusting a gateway so these issues need to be sorted out and clearly explained.  
Sukrim
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December 30, 2013, 12:19:58 PM
 #49

Am I carrying on a business in the US?  Am I carrying on a business in China?  What are the tax consequences in each jurisdiction?
Just by denominating something in USD does not mean you do business in the US, I am not so sure what you are trying to do though.

Yes but remember I am issuing IOUs for USD under the Ripple system as an ordinary user when a transaction ripples through me.

No, you are trading USD IOUs from one issuer to IOUs from another issuer - you do not issue your own.

In the end I would anyways not recommend to trust multiple issuers for one currency on Ripple unless you really know what you are doing and want to accomplish. If you are happy with either Bitstamp or RippleChina's USD, why would you need both? Also if you are concerned or unsure about the default implicit 1:1 market making, just disable it.

Look I get that (now) it just seems like there is an entire world of regulatory issues here that have not been explored or closed out. It is obviously impractical for users to consult lawyers before trusting a gateway so these issues need to be sorted out and clearly explained. 
I would recommend to consult a tax specialist + lawyer before dealing with BTC as well, an issue is that for example unlike cash BTC can be traced back indefinitely far. If someone who owned your coins before you claims they are stolen and you should pay them back then they have definite proof that you actually do have a part of their property in your posession. BTC are not fungible.

Regulatory issues in Ripple are probably much less/easier as you can refer for example to the EU directive 2009/110/EC (http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/payments/emoney/) instead of first having to explain who actually could be an "issuer" of the BTC that you own.

https://www.coinlend.org <-- automated lending at various exchanges.
https://www.bitfinex.com <-- Trade BTC for other currencies and vice versa.
HairyMaclairy
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December 30, 2013, 12:28:43 PM
 #50

Am I carrying on a business in the US?  Am I carrying on a business in China?  What are the tax consequences in each jurisdiction?
Just by denominating something in USD does not mean you do business in the US, I am not so sure what you are trying to do though.

Yes but remember I am issuing IOUs for USD under the Ripple system as an ordinary user when a transaction ripples through me.

No, you are trading USD IOUs from one issuer to IOUs from another issuer - you do not issue your own.

Thank you for the clarification. That simplifies things a lot. I still have NFI whether that makes you a money transmitter though.
mehransaam
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January 10, 2014, 03:38:16 AM
 #51

I invested $5,000 during the launch of Ripple, honestly if i had used that same cash on WDC that was selling then @ $0.02 you all know what returns i will have now on my money, but ripple is more focused on the big investor Google Venture. I lost hope when i saw this tweet #1 mission of @RippleLabs is not #XRP value, but to advance @Ripple #protocol as payment system, making money transacting as easy as #email and i sold all my XRP.
 
https://twitter.com/XRPRipple/status/413372728914108416

That's number 1 mission.  Number 2 mission is to increase XRP valuation which is mostly done by doing a good job in number 1 mission.
mehransaam
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January 10, 2014, 03:48:25 AM
 #52

I think this is the only coin with a mining strategy that is actually good for the planet and humans.

not simply burning electricity

Just checked the website and "World Community Grid" etc.

You actually provide you processing power to research on cancer, AIDS, etc.  << how  b e a u t i f u l  is that
It would be more impressive if they gave away more than 1,000,000 XRP per day for this because there are 100 billion XRP in existence. So, they are giving away 1/100000 or 0.00001 or 0.0000001% of the total XRP in existence per day.

0.00001 = 0.001%  and that is pretty good. They are giving 1/100,000 of their total wealth away each and everyday.  In 3 years they will have given away, 1% of the total wealth only through this method (World Community Grid), and they need money for hiring , marketing and building the network too. By the way they are increasing the give away regularly. It's now 1,250,000 XRP each day.
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