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Author Topic: I'm selling through PayPal!  (Read 5790 times)
Bebop
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September 06, 2011, 08:41:13 AM
 #61

Much respect to you for initiating this venture. I hope you can recieve as much ideas and feedback as you need to make it work.

A quick tip of my own: You can have 2 Paypal accounts of your own.. so long as one is personal and the other is premium or higher (the point is, both can be free). This may be useful for your further testing purposes.

Keep up the excellent work. Keep above the scammers at all times. Hope to buy some BTC from you when its out of Beta.

★ The cure for boredom is curiosity
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Uhlbelk
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September 06, 2011, 09:26:38 AM
 #62

Kudos on the wording of your service. An interesting way to look at the digital currency. The privilege of having your number / name saved in a community ledger. Smiley

The intention of my post however is to ask if you have an alternate way of confirmation besides PIN by cell phone. I for one do not use of them sorts of location tracking machines.

Do you allow for one on one communication and trading on that level?
Example: Buyer sends email to sales@yourdomain, seller sends paypal invoice with "hall of fame" or what have you. Buyer pays invoice and seller sends BTC.
I suppose that method removes some of the anonymity of the system but that's the price you pay.

I dig the paranoia around the whole paypal charge back Nonsense.
Do you think selling entries into the HOF ledger could be used to dispute a charge back?
(imho you should pretty up your site a bit, throw some illustrations or pictures in there)

Keep on Keeping on!


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JeremyTrice
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September 06, 2011, 01:31:25 PM
 #63

I think I missed something here.  Currently 1 Unit costs $10. Is one unit equal to 1 BTC.  If so you're more than $3 more expensive than the current market.  Just curious if I got that right.
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September 06, 2011, 03:29:21 PM
 #64

Nice:) Looking forward to see more:D
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September 06, 2011, 05:08:11 PM
 #65

PP login page in english -- works
day limit depends on number of purchases -- works
(btw: secure hole: do 10 purchases for 0.01, get max  limit - buy all - withdraw money. Maybe, limit should be % of  all prev purchases, like 120%).

dynamic price - no ( Sad )
mtgox: 6.55
donotcompare: 10 Smiley
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September 06, 2011, 08:42:06 PM
 #66

A quick tip of my own: You can have 2 Paypal accounts of your own.. so long as one is personal and the other is premium or higher (the point is, both can be free). This may be useful for your further testing purposes.
Thanks for the tip! But I am not so sure that Paypal likes very much the fact that a single user had more than one account. For testing puporses I have been using the Paypal's sandbox, which emulates *quite* well Paypal's production environment.

The intention of my post however is to ask if you have an alternate way of confirmation besides PIN by cell phone. I for one do not use of them sorts of location tracking machines.
Do you allow for one on one communication and trading on that level?
Example: Buyer sends email to sales@yourdomain, seller sends paypal invoice with "hall of fame" or what have you. Buyer pays invoice and seller sends BTC.
I suppose that method removes some of the anonymity of the system but that's the price you pay.
The method you proposed will perfectly work, but if I understood well, it would be vulnerable to scammers. Nowadays is very easy to create fake email accounts, and so a fraudulent client could ask the invoice, pay it with a stolen Paypal account (not long ago there was a list of thousands of Paypal accounts and its passwords made public, and thus I assume that everyone can find it with a simple Google search) and run away with the bitcoins. And nothing would prevent him to use another email account five minutes later.
I would prefer not to ask for the mobile phone number, but that (a) ensures that the user is the owner, or at least has physical access to the device and (b) sending it along with the invoice prevents a scammer to use a stolen account.

Do you think selling entries into the HOF ledger could be used to dispute a charge back?
(imho you should pretty up your site a bit, throw some illustrations or pictures in there)
The management of chargebacks is not a trivial issue. Those of you how haven't asked for a PIN yet won't have notice that in the second screen it says "IMPORTANT NOTE: The phone number you entered will be shown in Paypal's receipt. Think twice before proceeding if you are not the owner of the account. Your phone number will NEVER be shown in the Hall of Fame.".

Nice:) Looking forward to see more:D
Thanks! The first time I read your post I read "Nice looking Smiley". But then I assumed that my design sucks Wink

I think I missed something here.  Currently 1 Unit costs $10. Is one unit equal to 1 BTC.  If so you're more than $3 more expensive than the current market.  Just curious if I got that right.
dynamic price - no ( Sad )
mtgox: 6.55
donotcompare: 10 Smiley
That's correct.
OK, I catch it! Wink I had to set a minimum price, the price I payed for the coins at the moment I bought them. Now that the market is down I have two choices, to stop selling until it rises again or to sell at a minimum price. I've decided to keep the service and let you decide. Considering that the owner of btcnow.net used to sell at $18 (who, by the way, seems to have problems with Google checkout. I'd like to contact him, but I cannot see a single email address in the whole site, maybe he reads this forum Smiley) there might be users interested in instant BTC.

(btw: secure hole: do 10 purchases for 0.01, get max  limit - buy all - withdraw money. Maybe, limit should be % of  all prev purchases, like 120%).
Very relevant point! Actually I have been thinking on a system like the one you propose, but finally I decided to go on with the number-of-purchases limit. In order to explain my reasons let's consider the types of fraud I deal with:

 1) People whose Paypal account OR credit card has been stolen
    - That can be addressed by sending the mobile phone number with the invoice. In such way Paypal will have access to a working phone number to start the  investigation.
    - In addition, the limit of 24 hours after each purchase will allow the real owner of the account to realize that it has been hacked when the damage is still minimal.

2) Fraudulent users using their real names, credit card and Paypal account.
   - They can work on a reputation by doing honest transactions. Even if the limit is increased with the quantity purchased, they will try to scam me when it is reached (it doesn't really matter if he had to spend 100€ or 10€ to reach it). But since there is an absolute limit, when raising the chargeback the scammer will have to explain some points:
      -> Why does he say that he is not in the Hall of Fame when this list is public and both the address and the amount are written in the Paypal invoice?
      -> The fact that he has done several satisfactory transactions (in order to reach the limit) gives poor credibility to his version.

So, in short. The scammer will have to argue for some long time, with probability of losing and the certainty of not making business with me anymore and all that to win...10 BTC?


Thanks again for your time considering my service! According to some posts in this thead there are users who have already purchased Bitcoins and seem happy with the service Wink So don't hesitate to try it!
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September 07, 2011, 08:22:47 PM
 #67

Hey :-)  Ya, I read this forum (and run btcnow.net) but have been stuck in the damn newbies forum while everyone talks about my services.  Pretty annoying :-)   By the way, with some whois magic, you can find pretty much everything about me that you could ever want to know.   I finally stopped trying to go through google to deal with my checkout suspension bullshit, and fixed it my own way, so btcnow.net came back online last night.

Why can't people just hit me up on reddit, where I have plenty of karma and can easily respond to questions :-)

   - DEAN
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September 07, 2011, 11:07:00 PM
 #68

Would you consider a non-privatized domain register coinciding with the paypal name and email a form of cyber identity. Or do you suppose a would be account hacker could easily go through the steps to both get a website in the stolen accounts name (or if the web has already been established just cite it) and convince the BTC seller his identity? A paypal account from an email address via the non privet site would either mean the user is legit or they also has access to the stolen account users webhost.

If the webpage is established and not an obvious flybynight it would increase trust but not by much....

Any other thoughts on possible cyber identification to verify a paypal accounts owner.

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September 08, 2011, 01:28:47 AM
 #69

Hmm, looks like a good idea to me.

Heck, I was about to buy until I saw your prices were practically double the market price.

PM me and I will purchase for a negotiated price.

No scammer here btw, US citizen. Can be called, contacted at my edu address, etc.

https://bitquick.co - Buy bitcoins instantly with cash at 2% fee or Sell Bitcoins at 0% fee with BitQuick.co. Encourage safer, more secure trading! Stop selling on LocalBitcoins.
Safe trading resource: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=208203.0 Read it before you ever make a trade! Know what you're getting yourself into!
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September 08, 2011, 08:37:51 AM
 #70

Hey :-)  Ya, I read this forum (and run btcnow.net) but have been stuck in the damn newbies forum while everyone talks about my services.  Pretty annoying :-)   By the way, with some whois magic, you can find pretty much everything about me that you could ever want to know.   I finally stopped trying to go through google to deal with my checkout suspension bullshit, and fixed it my own way, so btcnow.net came back online last night.

Hello Dean! It's good to find you here (BTW, a whois does not reveal any information about you!). I love you address' details:
1234 Fake St.

Be careful, cops are arriving at your door Wink


Quote
Order Details - btcnow.net, 1234 Fake St., Portland, OR 97201 US

sounds legit

I laughed a lot with that comment xD But in the rest of the thread we see that everyone who ordered coins are satisfied, their only complaint was the price ^_^
And, how do you deal with scammers? Is Google Checkout the solution to all our problems? Too bad that it's only available to US and UK merchants.

Would you consider a non-privatized domain register coinciding with the paypal name and email a form of cyber identity. Or do you suppose a would be account hacker could easily go through the steps to both get a website in the stolen accounts name (or if the web has already been established just cite it) and convince the BTC seller his identity? A paypal account from an email address via the non privet site would either mean the user is legit or they also has access to the stolen account users webhost.

If the webpage is established and not an obvious flybynight it would increase trust but not by much....

Any other thoughts on possible cyber identification to verify a paypal accounts owner.
First of all, thanks for your proposals!
You propose to ask the user for a webpage with his paypal name and email. Am I right? For example, if my client's Paypal account is "myusername" and his email is "mymail@myserver.com", I would ask the user for a domain like http://www.myusernamemymailmyserver.tk, and then I ask the user to make the purchase from that site web?
If you meant that, I see two serious drawbacks:

 1- If the Paypal's user didn't have a webpage (which happens in most cases), the scammer can set a website and then it would be the actual owner who would be considered as the stealer.

 2- For most legit users the process of setting up a website and then making POST requests from is far too messy to finish the purchases.

I've been reading your previous posts in this forum, and since your donations Bitcoin address in your signature and in BitCoin Beastie is the same I guess that you are the owner. So I think that in exceptional cases I can accept any other proof of identity and provide a working "fake phone number" and a PIN. But for those cases I would prefer the user to contact me directly.


Hmm, looks like a good idea to me.

Heck, I was about to buy until I saw your prices were practically double the market price.

PM me and I will purchase for a negotiated price.

No scammer here btw, US citizen. Can be called, contacted at my edu address, etc.
I wish I could negotiate a lower price, but I cannot afford to lose more money. The minimum price I set is just to break even. Oh Gosh, who would think that housin... sorry, Bitcoin prices would stop going up? ^_^ I've been selling slightly below market prices when I was testing the backend, but now that it seems to work my only chance is to wait prices to go up or to invest the coins somewhere else.

In the meanwhile I encourage you to buy at btcnow.net (or at least while his prices are lower than mines Wink ). I bought my first coin with him and the service was excellent. In fact, I decided to start my service when btcnow.net stopped working.
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September 08, 2011, 02:51:38 PM
 #71

Damn, I got a simpsons reference slightly wrong.  This will not stand.  *updates address*
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September 11, 2011, 01:24:54 PM
 #72

I've changed my price policy. At this moment the price is 6.38 USD <--> 1 BTC and limits are much, much higher  Wink
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September 11, 2011, 07:12:06 PM
 #73

I've changed my price policy. At this moment the price is 6.38 USD <--> 1 BTC and limits are much, much higher  Wink
Weheww, what a ride that was. Finally back up to $6.

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September 12, 2011, 08:03:34 AM
 #74

I've just set up a new desing ^_^
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September 12, 2011, 08:14:01 AM
 #75

I haven't used https://get-bitcoin.com myself but they look like they have a pretty nice system setup even though it's not automated.  The best part is the pricing because you can set your own price.

So I know you just started going, but with a little coding you could set up something like this.

1. You put money into a Tradehill or MtGox account.
2. Someone comes to your site and makes a purchase and sets the dollar amount.
3. Using the exchanges API you place an order for that amount minus a % as your fee.
4. When the order is fulfilled you send them the BTC.

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September 12, 2011, 08:40:58 AM
 #76

I haven't used https://get-bitcoin.com myself but they look like they have a pretty nice system setup even though it's not automated.  The best part is the pricing because you can set your own price.

So I know you just started going, but with a little coding you could set up something like this.

1. You put money into a Tradehill or MtGox account.
2. Someone comes to your site and makes a purchase and sets the dollar amount.
3. Using the exchanges API you place an order for that amount minus a % as your fee.
4. When the order is fulfilled you send them the BTC.

Thanks for your comment! My system works almost exactly like that Smiley. But in order to provide Bitcoins instantly, instead of asking the user the price they want to pay, it automatically sets the lowest price I can afford (that is, MtGox ask price plus transaction fees, Paypal fees, wire transfer fees and risk fees -like possible scammers or not enough market depth at MtGox for that price).
After calculations all those fees resulted to be much higher than I expected, and thus the margin for me is almost non existent. I expect to compensate this low profit with a high volume of sales, after all, I have the lowest price of all the instant bitcoin services I know Wink
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September 12, 2011, 09:43:21 AM
 #77

Well, hell, I'd take it for a whirl even with the "fee" of higher market prices... I understand the making-money-back thing and I'm sure it'll fly the inverse when the market comes back (you should really buy some Bitcoin right-right-RIGHTFUCKINGNOW as it's coming up as we speak - wait, what am I saying?)...

... but the g*ddamn website won't send me a PIN! Sad Is this like "electronic bank transfer" sort of "electronic", that really takes 5-7 days to process?  Roll Eyes

feed the bird: 187CXEVzakbzcANsyhpAAoF2k6KJsc55P1 (BTC) / LiRzzXnwamFCHoNnWqEkZk9HknRmjNT7nU (LTC)
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September 12, 2011, 10:00:35 AM
 #78

Well, hell, I'd take it for a whirl even with the "fee" of higher market prices... I understand the making-money-back thing and I'm sure it'll fly the inverse when the market comes back (you should really buy some Bitcoin right-right-RIGHTFUCKINGNOW as it's coming up as we speak - wait, what am I saying?)...

... but the g*ddamn website won't send me a PIN! Sad Is this like "electronic bank transfer" sort of "electronic", that really takes 5-7 days to process?  Roll Eyes
Didn't you receive your PIN? Did you write your country code number?
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September 12, 2011, 10:06:56 AM
 #79

Didn't you receive your PIN? Did you write your country code number?
Still nothing. Double, triple checked it. It even said something like, "looks like United States". I didn't do the whole "+" thing because I really have no idea what the "+" means. And there was no "Example:" on the page (really, when you're asking someone to do something unusual like adding a country code, there should be an example - just sayin'). I just mashed in 11 digits (my phone number with leading "1" country code), no dashes, no spaces, all just digits. It said it was successful and to check my phone... and an hour later, still nothing. Sad

feed the bird: 187CXEVzakbzcANsyhpAAoF2k6KJsc55P1 (BTC) / LiRzzXnwamFCHoNnWqEkZk9HknRmjNT7nU (LTC)
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September 12, 2011, 11:06:12 AM
 #80

Didn't you receive your PIN? Did you write your country code number?
Still nothing. Double, triple checked it. It even said something like, "looks like United States". I didn't do the whole "+" thing because I really have no idea what the "+" means. And there was no "Example:" on the page (really, when you're asking someone to do something unusual like adding a country code, there should be an example - just sayin'). I just mashed in 11 digits (my phone number with leading "1" country code), no dashes, no spaces, all just digits. It said it was successful and to check my phone... and an hour later, still nothing. Sad
In previous versions I had a couple of examples, because the user needed to write the number in a specific format (without + or 00, just the country code). After a comment from a user in this thread, I've added a layer to handle any combination of +, 00 or none, and so now you can write your number as you want, always with the country code. For example:
+33612345678 -> France
0011234567890 -> United States
491234567890 -> Germany
or even (with both + and 00)
+0034661123456 -> Spain


Concerning your PIN, you should have received it by now
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