Mining contract - 8,000 MH/s

[yochdog]

I'm curious how much your electricity bill is lol. Also how big are you trying to make your farm? You seem to constantly be adding to it.

I live in the second cheapest state for power.....YA FOR HYDROELECTRIC DAMS!

My last bill was just over $200 bucks.....my rate was .08 per KW/h...and that rate goes down in about a month. 

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[film2240]

I can see that I can expect to lose out on another oppourtunity cus :
a.I'm too late (for when bitcion first arrived to make serious $$$) as I'm unable to keep up plus no1 rly cared to tell me when it first opened in 2009.
b.Price for mining contracts keeps going up (from my experience despite numerous offers,no one but 3 suppliers care about them)
c.Profit margins are getting thinner with each 'upgrade' of  a contract.I feel that mining contracts are taking the mick in pricing now.The person has very low elec rates yet the end price is high :-/ (I honestly think that hardware can easily be paid off with loads more lower priced users more quicker than a few high paying users)
d.Difficulty rises means I get less BTC for my efforts
e.BTC value either drops a lot in a day or rises but never stays there.Value is unstable
f.If you wish to make bitcoin more acceptable as a currency to every1 (not just us miners),then add hte fairness bit where things have either a 'stabiliser' where things are kept stable or introduce 'relief' periods where in times of really low BTc value,there is a chance for hte currency to recover and when it's too high (too expensive for hte buyers),lower it to a more reasonable level.(I can only propose solutions as I lack programming knowledge to create my own currency).in life currency fluctuates all the time but not to ridiculous extremes which seems to happen on a regular basis from all the time that I was involved in mining of btc since late May 2011.

I wish to profit without the artificially created barriers and expense I constantly face.Well I feel that's happened for me because:
a.I'm a investor that likes to spend a more modest amount of money (not $1000's like some people can with hardware or buying bitcoins via exchanges) but expect proportional returns instead of like £74 investment in BTC giving me £5 profit.People I know who are able can spend HUGE amounts of money and profit like overnight yet I can't spend much and still take ages to pay off hardware and elec bills
b.I have extra challenges like bugdet cutbacks,living in a place where people complain about the heat,noise and power use of my mining rigs even a little.I have no access to alternative energy which would otherwise make my elec bill free instead of like $0.40 per kwh now in UK.

I don't wish to sound like a hater or a complainer so plz don't flame me.I'm simply getting some opinions off my chest as things have been very difficult for me in the btc world recently.

[yochdog]

I can see that I can expect to lose out on another oppourtunity cus :
a.I'm too late (for when bitcion first arrived to make serious $$$) as I'm unable to keep up plus no1 rly cared to tell me when it first opened in 2009.
b.Price for mining contracts keeps going up (from my experience despite numerous offers,no one but 3 suppliers care about them)
c.Profit margins are getting thinner with each 'upgrade' of  a contract.I feel that mining contracts are taking the mick in pricing now.The person has very low elec rates yet the end price is high :-/ (I honestly think that hardware can easily be paid off with loads more lower priced users more quicker than a few high paying users)
d.Difficulty rises means I get less BTC for my efforts
e.BTC value either drops a lot in a day or rises but never stays there.Value is unstable
f.If you wish to make bitcoin more acceptable as a currency to every1 (not just us miners),then add hte fairness bit where things have either a 'stabiliser' where things are kept stable or introduce 'relief' periods where in times of really low BTc value,there is a chance for hte currency to recover and when it's too high (too expensive for hte buyers),lower it to a more reasonable level.(I can only propose solutions as I lack programming knowledge to create my own currency).in life currency fluctuates all the time but not to ridiculous extremes which seems to happen on a regular basis from all the time that I was involved in mining of btc since late May 2011.

I wish to profit without the artificially created barriers and expense I constantly face.Well I feel that's happened for me because:
a.I'm a investor that likes to spend a more modest amount of money (not $1000's like some people can with hardware or buying bitcoins via exchanges) but expect proportional returns instead of like £74 investment in BTC giving me £5 profit.People I know who are able can spend HUGE amounts of money and profit like overnight yet I can't spend much and still take ages to pay off hardware and elec bills
b.I have extra challenges like bugdet cutbacks,living in a place where people complain about the heat,noise and power use of my mining rigs even a little.I have no access to alternative energy which would otherwise make my elec bill free instead of like $0.40 per kwh now in UK.

I don't wish to sound like a hater or a complainer so plz don't flame me.I'm simply getting some opinions off my chest as things have been very difficult for me in the btc world recently.

The return on hardware investment (excluding electricity cost) is the same for someone who buys $500 worth of mining gear, or $50,000.

I can understand how $.40 power would make BTC mining a monstrous pain. 

Just for the record, I don't think it is possible for people to "spend HUGE amounts on money and profit overnight".  If that was the case, everyone and their mother would be spending every cent they had to reap instant profits. 

[MelMan2002]

I can see that I can expect to lose out on another oppourtunity cus :
a.I'm too late (for when bitcion first arrived to make serious $$$) as I'm unable to keep up plus no1 rly cared to tell me when it first opened in 2009.
b.Price for mining contracts keeps going up (from my experience despite numerous offers,no one but 3 suppliers care about them)
c.Profit margins are getting thinner with each 'upgrade' of  a contract.I feel that mining contracts are taking the mick in pricing now.The person has very low elec rates yet the end price is high :-/ (I honestly think that hardware can easily be paid off with loads more lower priced users more quicker than a few high paying users)
d.Difficulty rises means I get less BTC for my efforts
e.BTC value either drops a lot in a day or rises but never stays there.Value is unstable
f.If you wish to make bitcoin more acceptable as a currency to every1 (not just us miners),then add hte fairness bit where things have either a 'stabiliser' where things are kept stable or introduce 'relief' periods where in times of really low BTc value,there is a chance for hte currency to recover and when it's too high (too expensive for hte buyers),lower it to a more reasonable level.(I can only propose solutions as I lack programming knowledge to create my own currency).in life currency fluctuates all the time but not to ridiculous extremes which seems to happen on a regular basis from all the time that I was involved in mining of btc since late May 2011.

I wish to profit without the artificially created barriers and expense I constantly face.Well I feel that's happened for me because:
a.I'm a investor that likes to spend a more modest amount of money (not $1000's like some people can with hardware or buying bitcoins via exchanges) but expect proportional returns instead of like £74 investment in BTC giving me £5 profit.People I know who are able can spend HUGE amounts of money and profit like overnight yet I can't spend much and still take ages to pay off hardware and elec bills
b.I have extra challenges like bugdet cutbacks,living in a place where people complain about the heat,noise and power use of my mining rigs even a little.I have no access to alternative energy which would otherwise make my elec bill free instead of like $0.40 per kwh now in UK.

I don't wish to sound like a hater or a complainer so plz don't flame me.I'm simply getting some opinions off my chest as things have been very difficult for me in the btc world recently.

[Syke]

No wonder you have a waiting list. You are selling contracts at a loss. Why??? For 30 BTC your farm will generate 33 BTC, since there's virtually zero chance of difficulty changing significantly in the coming week.

[yochdog]

No wonder you have a waiting list. You are selling contracts at a loss. Why??? For 30 BTC your farm will generate 33 BTC, since there's virtually zero chance of difficulty changing significantly in the coming week.

Ahhh, but what if the exchange rate is cut in half by next week? 

We discussed this earlier in the thread.....pretty straightforward. 

[Syke]

No wonder you have a waiting list. You are selling contracts at a loss. Why??? For 30 BTC your farm will generate 33 BTC, since there's virtually zero chance of difficulty changing significantly in the coming week.

Ahhh, but what if the exchange rate is cut in half by next week? 

We discussed this earlier in the thread.....pretty straightforward. 

You're betting that bitcoins will tank this week? If you're so convinced that the price of bitcoin is going to drop, then why don't you sell your miners? Because if the price of bitcoins go up, this contract is even more of a bad move on your part.

[SgtSpike]

No wonder you have a waiting list. You are selling contracts at a loss. Why??? For 30 BTC your farm will generate 33 BTC, since there's virtually zero chance of difficulty changing significantly in the coming week.

Ahhh, but what if the exchange rate is cut in half by next week? 

We discussed this earlier in the thread.....pretty straightforward. 

You're betting that bitcoins will tank this week? If you're so convinced that the price of bitcoin is going to drop, then why don't you sell your miners? Because if the price of bitcoins go up, this contract is even more of a bad move on your part.

What if he wants to mine even if he thinks the price is going to drop?  Why wouldn't he, if he can still make a profit on it (and a larger one if he gets the BTC today, but the price drops before the contract ends)?

[Syke]

What if he wants to mine even if he thinks the price is going to drop?  Why wouldn't he, if he can still make a profit on it (and a larger one if he gets the BTC today, but the price drops before the contract ends)?

If the price goes up, he looses.
If the price stays the same, he looses.
If the price goes down a little, he breaks even.
If the price goes down a lot, then he wins.

If the price is going to go down a lot, he'll make a much bigger profit by selling the hardware now.

There's clearly enough interest in mining contracts, especially moderately priced ones. I don't see the point in selling them at a loss. He could easily sell them for a small profit.

[SgtSpike]

What if he wants to mine even if he thinks the price is going to drop?  Why wouldn't he, if he can still make a profit on it (and a larger one if he gets the BTC today, but the price drops before the contract ends)?

If the price goes up, he looses.
If the price stays the same, he looses.
If the price goes down a little, he breaks even.
If the price goes down a lot, then he wins.

If the price is going to go down a lot, he'll make a much bigger profit by selling the hardware now.

There's clearly enough interest in mining contracts, especially moderately priced ones. I don't see the point in selling them at a loss. He could easily sell them for a small profit.

If the price goes down a lot, why would he make a much bigger profit by selling the hardware now, vs selling it in 7 days after the first contract is completed?

Selling now:  $5000 in hardware
Selling in 7 days:  $5000 in hardware + $246.22 in BTC.

I would agree with you that I don't see the point in selling them at a loss, but that's his choice.  He'll still make money on it, and that's all that is important to him.

[yochdog]

What if he wants to mine even if he thinks the price is going to drop?  Why wouldn't he, if he can still make a profit on it (and a larger one if he gets the BTC today, but the price drops before the contract ends)?

If the price goes up, he looses.
If the price stays the same, he looses.
If the price goes down a little, he breaks even.
If the price goes down a lot, then he wins.

If the price is going to go down a lot, he'll make a much bigger profit by selling the hardware now.

There's clearly enough interest in mining contracts, especially moderately priced ones. I don't see the point in selling them at a loss. He could easily sell them for a small profit.

If the price goes down a lot, why would he make a much bigger profit by selling the hardware now, vs selling it in 7 days after the first contract is completed?

Selling now:  $5000 in hardware
Selling in 7 days:  $5000 in hardware + $246.22 in BTC.

I would agree with you that I don't see the point in selling them at a loss, but that's his choice.  He'll still make money on it, and that's all that is important to him.

There is no way to know whether I am selling this contract at a loss until it is completed.  My current contract was sold when BTC was $11.15/BTC.....today it is down to $8.9/BTC.

If the price continues to plummet, I will be better off having traded 30 BTC of declining value for 26 BTC @ $11.15.  (Yes, I sold them). 


I really hope this is the last time I have to explain this.  Questioning why I am "selling at a loss" is not only the wrong question, it is somewhat ignorant.  

[yochdog]

The current contract expires today at 7:00PM EST.

Is anyone intrested in purchasing the next 7 days?  I will garauntee 8,500 MH/s for the entire contract.

Price is 30 BTC. 

[Jack of Diamonds]

The return on hardware investment (excluding electricity cost) is the same for someone who buys $500 worth of mining gear, or $50,000.

Yes, but with $500 worth of rigs (or rather, rig) you wont be earning anything 'worthwhile'.
With $50k of rigs (say ~30,000 mhash) you would likely be earning more from mining per month than working at a decent mid-level managerial position in a company.

While both people do get their investment back in time, $500 is peanuts in the big picture. $50k is a lot, even for relatively rich people.
Paying off that much hardware & gaining everything after that as pure profit after electricity is a very lucrative business.

[kookiekrak]

The current contract expires today at 7:00PM EST.

Is anyone intrested in purchasing the next 7 days?  I will garauntee 8,500 MH/s for the entire contract.

Price is 30 BTC. 

can you post how the last contract went?

[mb300sd]

I'll offer 27 bitcoins (all I have) if you switch the miners to my deepbit account.

[BitSense Informatics]

The current contract expires today at 7:00PM EST.

Is anyone intrested in purchasing the next 7 days?  I will garauntee 8,500 MH/s for the entire contract.

Price is 30 BTC. 

can you post how the last contract went?

I purchased the last 7 day contract and everything went smoothly.

[yochdog]

The current contract expires today at 7:00PM EST.

Is anyone intrested in purchasing the next 7 days?  I will garauntee 8,500 MH/s for the entire contract.

Price is 30 BTC. 

can you post how the last contract went?

I purchased the last 7 day contract and everything went smoothly.

Indeed, it was a great transaction.  Bitsense kept his word and was excellent to work with. 

[yochdog]

The current contract expires today at 7:00PM EST.

Is anyone intrested in purchasing the next 7 days?  I will garauntee 8,500 MH/s for the entire contract.

Price is 30 BTC. 

can you post how the last contract went?

If you are interested in the next contract, I have averaged 9,000 MH/s over the last 48 hours.  Those 5970's certainly kick it in the ass. 

[Chemicalbro]

Is it 8000 real mh/s as detected by mining program? And 8500-9000 I assume is whats being reported by the pool being used?

[yochdog]

Is it 8000 real mh/s as detected by mining program? And 8500-9000 I assume is whats being reported by the pool being used?

Not at all.  I track my miners individually and tally my total hash rate in a spreadsheet. 

I check it against what the pool reports to make sure it is close.  I am usually within 150 MH/s of what I expect to be.