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Author Topic: Wallet backup in the cloud  (Read 1798 times)
M4v3R
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February 26, 2011, 07:34:13 AM
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I saw one try to make easy wallet backup on the forums, but it lacked one thing - offsite backups.
Would there be a need for a service that backuped your wallet on the cloud? Before you scream "SCAM" and "FRAUD", read on:

- the app would be a complete package, wrapped around current Bitcoin client (-server option for communicating with it), so you wouldn't have to download two apps for one thing to do
- the app would make backups of your wallet every time it does change, so it would be always fresh
- then it would encrypt it on your computer with a strong algo and passphrase that you choose (it would enforce strong passphrases so newbies won't use "12345" or "password")
- then it would send the encrypted backup to the cloud (either on my server - with full backup history and easy reverting, or some public storage server, or to a FTP server you choose, or maybe somewhere else)
- it would allow you to quickly revert to a backup you choose
- it would work on major OSes (Windows, Linux, Mac)
- finally, it would be open source of course for full transparency of what it's doing.

What would you say about that?

Edit: Also, my rationale for this project is like this: I believe that Bitcoin has some chance to take off and be used by average Joe Smith. But the wallet backup is a problem that's above average Joe. Especially understanding that you need back it up every 100 transactions or less. So "normal" people would be confused about it and probably feel unsafe about the whole proccess, thus choosing to not use Bitcoin. The service I'm talking about is all about simplifying the backup for average Joe to make it fully transparent for him, still providing decent security for him and for power users.

Edit 2: Codename: EasyBitcoin Smiley
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grondilu
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February 26, 2011, 07:39:27 AM
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Basically to make cloud backups, all you need is cloud data storage.

Trusting someone to store your passphrase defeats the very purpose of strong encryption.

So yes, cloud backups is great, as long as I stay in charge of encryption.
M4v3R
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February 26, 2011, 07:42:19 AM
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grondilu: I think you misunderstood. The encryption with your passphrase takes place on YOUR computer. The passphrase isn't stored anywhere. Once the app encrypts the wallet its gone. So there isn't a way even for cloud storage provider (let it be me or some public provider) to decrypt your wallet.
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February 26, 2011, 07:48:47 AM
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grondilu: I think you misunderstood. The encryption with your passphrase takes place on YOUR computer. The passphrase isn't stored anywhere. Once the app encrypts the wallet its gone. So there isn't a way even for cloud storage provider (let it be me or some public provider) to decrypt your wallet.

Indeed I misunderstood.  I still don't see your point, though.   What do you want exactly that can not be written in a three lines script ?

You encrypt with gpg, and you send with scp.  Several scripts have been published on the forum and on the wiki.  Check them out.
M4v3R
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February 26, 2011, 07:51:56 AM
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grondilu: I know there are scripts for this. But there is no tool that it's genuinely easy to use for average person that heard about Bitcoin on the news. Average person doesn't know what a script is, how to run it, doesn't have scp nor a server to store the backup. Read my rationale for this in the first post, I've edited it.
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February 26, 2011, 07:54:26 AM
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Edit: Also, my rationale for this project is like this: I believe that Bitcoin has some chance to take off and be used by average Joe Smith. But the wallet backup is a problem that's above average Joe. Especially understanding that you need back it up every 100 transactions or less. So "normal" people would be confused about it and probably feel unsafe about the whole proccess, thus choosing to not use Bitcoin. The service I'm talking about is all about simplifying the backup for average Joe to make it fully transparent for him, still providing decent security for him and for power users.
I agree so very much to this! It really is a hassle for "normal" people. Looking forward to this application, although I think that this functionality should be implemented directly into the original client.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
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grondilu
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February 26, 2011, 08:03:56 AM
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For the "average Joe" a script is not different from any other executable program.

I really don't see your point, unless what you're talking about is a nice icon on a desktop where to click to.  This is very much OS-dependant, and it's really just a marketting/ergonomics issue imo.
M4v3R
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February 26, 2011, 08:19:17 AM
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Yes, I'm talking about nice icon on the desktop launching an app in a tray that sits there and does the work without getting in your way, easily configurable, etc. To edit a script (even when you want to define your own passphrase or backup destination), you have to have some scripting knowledge. With an app with nice GUI you don't - that's the difference.

And while it is OS-dependant I see many ways to accomplish this. I only need some gather information whether it's only my thing or if other people feel the same about it.
grondilu
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February 26, 2011, 08:27:29 AM
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Yes, I'm talking about nice icon on the desktop launching an app in a tray that sits there and does the work without getting in your way, easily configurable, etc. To edit a script (even when you want to define your own passphrase or backup destination), you have to have some scripting knowledge. With an app with nice GUI you don't - that's the difference.

Ok I understand now, and I totally support your project.  It is indeed a good idea to make bitcoin wallets easy to backup, even for retarded people.
M4v3R
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February 26, 2011, 08:40:16 AM
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I just have an even better idea to make it more useful - wrapping the whole thing around current mainline Bitcoin client. So user would download only one package that has all features of current Bitcoin client + easy configuration and backup. Edited the first post to add this.
genjix
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February 26, 2011, 08:51:55 AM
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I have done this but am looking for someone to review the code and a VPS to host the service.
M4v3R
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February 26, 2011, 08:32:59 PM
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@genjix: Technically it looks good, but (don't get mad on me) IMO it fails to do what it's meant to do in a way that is easy for the end user, especially non technical end user.
genjix
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February 27, 2011, 10:31:02 AM
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@genjix: Technically it looks good, but (don't get mad on me) IMO it fails to do what it's meant to do in a way that is easy for the end user, especially non technical end user.

That's because it's meant to be integrated into a client (which I'm also working on making).



The user just sees a big shiny restore wallet button.
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February 28, 2011, 10:58:42 AM
 #14

Many professional offsite backup solutions can be mounted locally, so all that would really be needed is the possibility to add a second location to save wallet.dat. This would be very helpful for most solutions. Personally I would save it to a home server, but even just saving to a different drive on the same computer would help in a lot of situations. I'd rather have the ability to password protect the wallet than built in offsite backup support.
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February 28, 2011, 12:58:39 PM
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Give a try to Wuala.com, it's in Java, works everywhere and it encrypt locally Wink

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M4v3R
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February 28, 2011, 02:52:24 PM
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Well, if there already are plans to integrate solution like this to the main client then I guess I'll pass on this. Good luck genjix!
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