[2013-12-28] New York Times (Paul Krugman's blog) : Bitcoin is Evil

[Carlton Banks]

When I read that article, I could not believe that words and quotes like that would ever be written by a Nobel laureate. 

"I'm really good at killing people" Barack Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner 2009

[1714771669]

1714771669

[johnyj]

I'm more and more convinced that this guy was bought by the central bankers, especially the swedish riksbank who gave him 1 million dollar price money

[ArticMine]

Paul Krugman has been a strong supporter of foreign exchange controls http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/siren-song-exchange-controls so it is hardly surprising that he would consider Bitcoin evil. Convertible fiat currencies such as the USD, EUR etc have nothing to fear from Bitcoin, but non convertible fiat currencies such as the INR, VEF or ARS have everything to fear from Bitcoin.

A convertible hard virtual currency that can be instantly sent across international borders, without the intervention of a bank, is the death knell of any foreign exchange control regime.

[ArticMine]

I'm more and more convinced that this guy was bought by the central bankers, especially the swedish riksbank who gave him 1 million dollar price money

No he has been going directly against the IMF by promoting foreign exchange controls.

[odolvlobo]

It’s always important, and always hard, to distinguish positive economics — how things work — from normative economics — how things should be. Indeed, ... it has been obvious that large numbers of economists can’t bring themselves to make that distinction ...

The irony of this opening sentence is that everything Krugman writes is about normative economics -- how he thinks things should be. He writes about social policy, not economics, and then wonders how others can disagree on what he thinks are facts, but are really just opinions.

I have yet to agree with any of his opinions. I believe that he is evil.

[solex]

Paul Krugman has been a strong supporter of foreign exchange controls http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/siren-song-exchange-controls so it is hardly surprising that he would consider Bitcoin evil. Convertible fiat currencies such as the USD, EUR etc have nothing to fear from Bitcoin, but non convertible fiat currencies such as the INR, VEF or ARS have everything to fear from Bitcoin.

A convertible hard virtual currency that can be instantly sent across international borders, without the intervention of a bank, is the death knell of any foreign exchange control regime.

This is why Bitcoin has so much potential already: it eliminates capital controls. This is a "killer app" for it. Even the EUR is afflicted as capital controls exist in Cyprus.

[Zarathustra]

I am extremely pleased to read such articles by Krugman, being a Nobel laureate, he deigned to come up with so many posts about Bitcoin only shows how panic he is with it. I know you are shaking in your boots Paul, you sense that something inevitable is coming and you are desperate.

Yes. State terrorists and their representatives in panic mode. A very promising sign. India's (client downloads) ranking is increasing with intensified state terror.

[uaweb]

no,Bitcoin is good.

[FeedbackLoop]

I am extremely pleased to read such articles by Krugman, being a Nobel laureate, he deigned to come up with so many posts about Bitcoin only shows how panic he is with it. I know you are shaking in your boots Paul, you sense that something inevitable is coming and you are desperate.

When I read that article, I could not believe that words and quotes like that would ever be written by a Nobel laureate.  It almost seems that he is feeling genuinely threatened, which actually blows my mind.  We have two other threads analyzing his post in more detail:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=389565.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=389545.0

He is not a Nobel laureate. He is a Swedish central bank (Riksbank) laureate.  Nobel never had a "Economy prize" in his will. The full title of the award is "Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel" AKA "Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences".

[oOoOo]

I see a lot of Krugman "bashing" in threads like these. But please let's not forget that Krugman fulfills an important function:
He is the representative spokesperson of the System. The system which consumes and destroys our future, progress and happiness and which will not stop until life itself is extinct.
As such, we should pay close attention to what Krugman says, since he is the closest line of communication to our most mortal enemy. And it reveals their thinking...

[ArticMine]

I see a lot of Krugman "bashing" in threads like these. But please let's not forget that Krugman fulfills an important function:
He is the representative spokesperson of the System. The system which consumes and destroys our future, progress and happiness and which will not stop until life itself is extinct.
As such, we should pay close attention to what Krugman says, since he is the closest line of communication to our most mortal enemy. And it reveals their thinking...

He does not represent "the system" as it is today, he represents a small but growing element within the system that wishes to return to the capital controls of the 1940's-1970's. This is why he also dismissed the Internet, since international trade in goods and particularity services at the retail level is incompatible with capital controls. Ever wonder why PayPal was forced to suspend domestic transactions in Argentina? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19605499 I still remember going through customs in the UK in the 1970's as a teenager and there were signs saying it was illegal to take out more than a certain amount of sterling out of the country. I recall something in the neighbourhood of 10 - 25 GBP. Many young people today do not have any direct experience with this evil which is far worse than most of the "evils" of "the system" today.

Paul Krugman has been a strong supporter of foreign exchange controls http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/siren-song-exchange-controls so it is hardly surprising that he would consider Bitcoin evil. Convertible fiat currencies such as the USD, EUR etc have nothing to fear from Bitcoin, but non convertible fiat currencies such as the INR, VEF or ARS have everything to fear from Bitcoin.

A convertible hard virtual currency that can be instantly sent across international borders, without the intervention of a bank, is the death knell of any foreign exchange control regime.

This is why Bitcoin has so much potential already: it eliminates capital controls. This is a "killer app" for it. Even the EUR is afflicted as capital controls exist in Cyprus.

Yes this may well turn out to be the killer application for Bitcoin. Just take a look at the response from China and India. Both of these countries have capital controls. One thing to keep in mind here is that if it is illegal for residents of a country to trade and / or hold USD or gold, then expect similar restrictions on BTC.

Krugman deserves to be bashed not because he is part of the system, but because he is trying to turn the system into something far worse.  

[Peter R]

He does not represent "the system" as it is today, he represents a small but growing element within the system

Thank you ArticMine.  I am frustrated by the number of posters here who see "the government" (aka "they") as some monolithic, Borg-like entity, with a single purpose and perfect coordination.  The truth is that "government" is a bunch of individuals with various viewpoints and ideologies.  The current system sticks together right now because, on the whole, its working for the people involved.  

[justusranvier]

I am frustrated by the number of posters here who see "the government" (aka "they") as some monolithic, Borg-like entity, with a single purpose and perfect coordination.  The truth is that "government" is a bunch of individuals with various viewpoints and ideologies.  The current system sticks together right now because, on the whole, its working for the people involved.

The one thing you can say about government is they share certain common features in terms of goals and ways of achieving them - otherwise they would not all work in the same organization.

So it's valid shorthand most of the time to treat them as a single entity.

[cbeast]

Paul Krugman has been a strong supporter of foreign exchange controls http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/siren-song-exchange-controls so it is hardly surprising that he would consider Bitcoin evil. Convertible fiat currencies such as the USD, EUR etc have nothing to fear from Bitcoin, but non convertible fiat currencies such as the INR, VEF or ARS have everything to fear from Bitcoin.

A convertible hard virtual currency that can be instantly sent across international borders, without the intervention of a bank, is the death knell of any foreign exchange control regime.

This is why Bitcoin has so much potential already: it eliminates capital controls. This is a "killer app" for it. Even the EUR is afflicted as capital controls exist in Cyprus.

Colored Coins, Master Coin, Open Transaction currencies, etc. will allow states to introduce Bitcoin derived fiat currencies with limited capital controls. You can create debt based currencies, fractional reserve banking, and inflation while piggybacking on the Bitcoin network. They basically function by multiplying the value of bitcoins by several orders of magnitude if they are processed through centralized servers. Bitcoin will not eliminate these, but will serve to eventually wean states from capital control dependence.

[Peter R]

I am frustrated by the number of posters here who see "the government" (aka "they") as some monolithic, Borg-like entity, with a single purpose and perfect coordination.  The truth is that "government" is a bunch of individuals with various viewpoints and ideologies.  The current system sticks together right now because, on the whole, its working for the people involved.

The one thing you can say about government is they share certain common features in terms of goals and ways of achieving them - otherwise they would not all work in the same organization.

So it's valid shorthand most of the time to treat them as a single entity.

I'll buy that justusranvier.  The government, or "they" refers to the larger system itself, and not directly to the individuals that make up the system.  The system takes on a life and personality of its own. 

[Peter R]

Paul Krugman has been a strong supporter of foreign exchange controls http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/siren-song-exchange-controls so it is hardly surprising that he would consider Bitcoin evil. Convertible fiat currencies such as the USD, EUR etc have nothing to fear from Bitcoin, but non convertible fiat currencies such as the INR, VEF or ARS have everything to fear from Bitcoin.

A convertible hard virtual currency that can be instantly sent across international borders, without the intervention of a bank, is the death knell of any foreign exchange control regime.

This is why Bitcoin has so much potential already: it eliminates capital controls. This is a "killer app" for it. Even the EUR is afflicted as capital controls exist in Cyprus.

Colored Coins, Master Coin, Open Transaction currencies, etc. will allow states to introduce Bitcoin derived fiat currencies with limited capital controls. You can create debt based currencies, fractional reserve banking, and inflation while piggybacking on the Bitcoin network. They basically function by multiplying the value of bitcoins by several orders of magnitude if they are processed through centralized servers. Bitcoin will not eliminate these, but will serve to eventually wean states from capital control dependence.

I was thinking about this last night, cbeast.  In particular, I was wondering if a case could be made that "bitcoins" become less valued, in a world where colored-coins are more widely used.  

The conclusion I came to (which of course may be wrong) is that transaction fees and the transaction-priority formula would always make it better to have more bitcoins, thus placing a floor beneath their value.  The floor would still be much greater than the current market value, since adoption is still so small at this time.    

[justusranvier]

The government, or "they" refers to the larger system itself, and not directly to the individuals that make up the system.  The system takes on a life and personality of its own.

Recently I've tried to stop using "the government" in favour of using "government" as a plural noun.

[cr1776]

The government, or "they" refers to the larger system itself, and not directly to the individuals that make up the system.  The system takes on a life and personality of its own.

Recently I've tried to stop using "the government" in favour of using "government" as a plural noun.

Government doesn't realize that their policies will drive the legacy currencies into the ground though endless quantitative easing.

I like That turn of the phrase!

[empoweoqwj]

Paul Krugman is an ass. But there are lots of them around.

[cbeast]

The government, or "they" refers to the larger system itself, and not directly to the individuals that make up the system.  The system takes on a life and personality of its own.

Recently I've tried to stop using "the government" in favour of using "government" as a plural noun.

Government doesn't realize that their policies will drive the legacy currencies into the ground though endless quantitative easing.

I like That turn of the phrase!

If you think "Government" is bad, wait until SkyNet gets ahold of your bitcoins.