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Author Topic: .25 BTC BOUNTY for the best answer  (Read 13565 times)
wjohnny
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December 29, 2013, 06:21:21 AM
 #21

buy a cool box:

http://www.minicoolers.co.uk/products/waeco/images/w35open.jpg

pack it full of dry ice and put your equipment inside...your rig will soon look like this:

http://www.freebiespot.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/dryice.jpg

send btc here:

15Wzsww4syNhX7joLbKE3mXhH8Fs78EXvc
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December 29, 2013, 03:05:53 PM
 #22

Posting message for generationbitcoin from the newb forum since he is unable. Link here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=389758.0


Hi, I'm answering here coz I'm not allowed to do that in the actual thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=389706.msg4195044#msg4195044

My solution would be something like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eub39NaC4rc

Just put hardware in the oil, no contact with air, no dump no rust. Oil does not conduct current so no short circuit.

Oil also distribute heat on the whole surface of the containing tank, easier to cool down.

Little maintenance.

Only con is that hardware will be permanently oily and hard to clean and resell.

my 2 cents (and hopefully 25 BTC Tongue)

me btc wallet 1L89NqH8vEwmcCkUf9W62fKL8y9Vi3K9KE

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EvilPanda
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December 29, 2013, 04:54:12 PM
 #23

Oil is a really bad idea if you're making a data center. 
1. You need big containers to store your stuff.
2. You need to circulate the oil inside containers (pumps)
3. If your oil heats up it's going to evaporate and cover the ceiling and other objects in the room.
4. If the container walls do not dissipate the heat well equipment may overheat anyway.
5. Hardware modifications are difficult be prepared to cover yourself in coolant every time you want to connect a cable.
6. Makes reselling almost impossible and voids warranty.

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December 29, 2013, 05:06:05 PM
 #24

Oil is a really bad idea if you're making a data center.  
1. You need big containers to store your stuff.
2. You need to circulate the oil inside containers (pumps)
3. If your oil heats up it's going to evaporate and cover the ceiling and other objects in the room.
4. If the container walls do not dissipate the heat well equipment may overheat anyway.
5. Hardware modifications are difficult be prepared to cover yourself in coolant every time you want to connect a cable.
6. Makes reselling almost impossible and voids warranty.

Tell it to this guy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=389758.0 haha

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CASINO GAMES
CRYPTO EXCLUSIVE
CLUBHOUSE
FAST & SECURE
PAYMENTS
.
..PLAY NOW!..
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December 29, 2013, 05:58:30 PM
 #25

You just posted it right above me no need to repeat Wink He should be out of the newbie section by now, maybe he'll come here and defend his idea.

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December 29, 2013, 09:49:11 PM
 #26

Indirect Evaporative Cooling


1.Yes.
2.The Indirect Evaporative Cooling (IEC) produces less risk than a poorly managed system.
3.Yes.
4.✗

Furthermore, the IEC systems can lower air temperature without adding moisture into the air, making them the more attractive option over the direct ones.

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December 29, 2013, 10:47:13 PM
 #27

We have a lot of the "silliest" answers here, from people who have no datacenter or AC experience. You put up a bounty, you get stupid spammers and beggars.

You basically have two choices:

- Traditional refrigerant air conditioning with a condensing outdoor unit,
- Evaporative "Swamp coolers", where facilities allow large outside berth for building flow-through, and the local weather is favorable.

The amount of air conditioning required is calculable. You have two factors:
1. The amount of air conditioning required to keep an unloaded building at room temperature vs the hottest outside temperatures.
 This is directly related to the building's insulation and R factor. If you have an uninsulated warehouse style steel building, you are going to be using much more AC to keep the building at room temperature than a highly insulated facility,
2. The amount of heat that needs to be removed from equipment heat generation.

I am not sure of the BTU rating, but I will need to dissipate upwards of 40,000 watts.
Unfortunately, #2 will be the major factor in designing an air conditioning system, your equipment-generated heat is much more than the amount needed for building cooling. The cons of air conditioning is that it is a closed system, so even on cool days, you'll be running AC equivalent to 40,000 watts of heat removal. This is one factor that has data centers looking for better ways of doing things.

Air conditioning has a lot of weird units of measurement, they can't seem to just use joules and watts like a normal physicist would. I will try to process some of these measurements like "tons" and "BTUs" to give you an idea about your AC power bills and required capacity.

ton = 12000 BTUs/hour, or 3517 watts. (based on how much ice would be used to provide the same refrigeration)
1 watt = 3600 joules per hour
1 btu = 1055.05585 joules
1 watt = 3.41214163 btu / hour

therm = 100,000 BTU
EER = Energy Efficiency Ratio = BTUs/watt-hour. BTU/hr vs watts of AC unit. A number 8-12 is typical
SEER = season-based voodoo. EER = -0.02 × SEER² + 1.12 × SEER
COP = Coefficient of perfomance. What we really want to know - i.e. how many watts will remove 1000 watt of heat. COP = EER / 3.412

The first thing to figure out is 40,000 watts equals how much in these AC terms, and how much electricity will it take. Lets remove everything except watts and the EER rating:
Wreq = Wload / COP -> Wreq = Wload * 3.412 / EER

So for 40,000 watts, and an example of 9 EER-rated air conditioning, we get
Wreq = 40000W * 3.412 / 9  ->  15,164 watts

Next, how much AC capacity is required in those weird AC terms?
40000 watts = 11.4155251142 tons of air conditioning

So add that power use and capacity on top of what AC would normally be required for the space.


Evaporative cooling is measured a different way, in the temperature drop from intake air temp, with accompanying increased humidity. You can make 100F outside air into 75F inside air. However, you will need to look at the cubic feet per minute ratings of the systems to see what can keep up with your heat load. You may decide that 85F will be the maximum "output" temperature rise after air goes through your racks - for this much cooling, you will be looking at garage-door sized walls of fans from the outside and gallons of water per minute.

However, the evaporative cooling does have the advantage that you are putting in a massive outside air circulation system - the 75% of the day and year when outside air is below 75F, you will need nothing more than to run the fans.

Inside a closed air conditioned building, evaporative cooling may enhance efficiency a bit. AC removes humidity, to the point where the IDUs need to pump water out. You could add some humidity back to pre-cool the hot AC intake air (you can't humidify cold air AC output). The humidity would have to be strictly monitored to not go overboard or add more humidity than the AC can remove.

Whatever system is implemented, you need to direct airflow through your facility and systems, ideally in a typical contained hot/cool-aisle system:
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December 30, 2013, 11:45:42 AM
 #28

We have a lot of the "silliest" answers here, from people who have no datacenter or AC experience. You put up a bounty, you get stupid spammers and beggars.

Inside a closed air conditioned building, evaporative cooling may enhance efficiency a bit. AC removes humidity, to the point where the IDUs need to pump water out. You could add some humidity back to pre-cool the hot AC intake air (you can't humidify cold air AC output). The humidity would have to be strictly monitored to not go overboard or add more humidity than the AC can remove.

+1
You should pass some of the bounty to DC for being so accurate and on point.

If you are doing raised flooring, you will have moisture sensors under the floor (spills, leaks, plumbing, flooding), you may also want air humidity alarming if you are using swamp cooling as part of your mix.

Design for what happens when things go wrong, not just for how you want it to work.

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December 30, 2013, 10:50:32 PM
 #29

We have a lot of the "silliest" answers here, from people who have no datacenter or AC experience. You put up a bounty, you get stupid spammers and beggars.

Before qualifying any answer as silly or stupid, I think we need to know some additional considerations such as the amount of money he is willing to spend.

If we take into account the kind of unit he is considering to buy, that sounds more like a kind of garage project, in the line of DIY and low cost solutions.

In the company where I work, we recently did an investment in a cooling solution. The company spent a bit more than 50,000 euros (about 80,000 USD) in a solution based on in-row equipment from APC, like the one linked below. This was a very small datacenter with a power consumption much lower than 40,000 W

http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=379

So, if someone is willing to spend an amount in the range of 3000~4000 USD, maybe the silly solutions are those intended for real datacenters. May be, if he had a budget in the range of 100,000 USD he would be addressing his doubts to a professional cooling consultant. May be he would be ordering and paying a whole study and a project instead of being offering 0.25 BTC (about 180 USD) looking for ideas into a community of unknown people.

This.

I am looking for low cost, DIY solutions.  This will be built out in space not originally intended for Crypto mining.  I want to keep expenses to a minimum.....no need to spend all the profit on cooling the damn things. 

I am a trusted trader!  Ask Inaba, Luo Demin, Vanderbleek, Sannyasi, Episking, Miner99er, Isepick, Amazingrando, Cablez, ColdHardMetal, Dextryn, MB300sd, Robocoder, gnar1ta$ and many others!
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December 31, 2013, 02:52:13 AM
 #30

I'm not in no way, of possession of the credentials to give the OP's the reply he wants, but I've once seen Liquid Nitrogen cooling solution, which was actually a small flat chamber with the liquid trapped inside, which was serving as a "floor" for us to step over. To keep it cool at the lowest cost I believe that a magnetic cooling system was set up (don't clearly remember the occasion).

 It was serving as cooling solution for chemical reactors though, not sure if such technology applies to this case.

A quick search on google points me to this on first link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_refrigeration

Have no idea about the costs Cheesy

Happy new year

Edit: The Lab was located at University of Algarve in Portugal, department of Physics and Chemistry
https://www.ualg.pt/home/en
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December 31, 2013, 05:19:55 AM
 #31

I would like to rig miners to my pool's water heater and make use of the heat to heat my pool to tropical temperatures.
This could save .25 BTC a day for each day I want to heat it.

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December 31, 2013, 05:49:42 AM
 #32

I would like to rig miners to my pool's water heater and make use of the heat to heat my pool to tropical temperatures.
This could save .25 BTC a day for each day I want to heat it.
If you have AC or a heat pump, there are already systems that can heat the pool with waste heat (or cool your house with your pool if you look at it the other way):
http://www.hotspotenergy.com/pool-heater/
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December 31, 2013, 02:32:26 PM
 #33

I would like to rig miners to my pool's water heater and make use of the heat to heat my pool to tropical temperatures.
This could save .25 BTC a day for each day I want to heat it.
If you have AC or a heat pump, there are already systems that can heat the pool with waste heat (or cool your house with your pool if you look at it the other way):
http://www.hotspotenergy.com/pool-heater/
Thanks for the link.
Yes, this is what I am looking at.
Solar panels provide electricity already for the home/office.
Running the chillers on the miner with the waste heat warming the swimming pool which serves as the evap.
Virtuous cycle mining.

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December 31, 2013, 11:02:20 PM
 #34

Well I have a better option for you. Look at how big companies do it. They try to make it as efficient as possible. Microsoft doesn't even put a roof on their new facilities.

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December 31, 2013, 11:20:38 PM
 #35

I design and build or rather used to....

I dont want your bounty but will happily offer up my 2 pence worth.

Not a concept i would choose, cooling is more complex than that....

How many servers are we talking? what are the BTU Raiting etc.....

How will air "flow" work around the space, will each server get enough cooled air

Why not free cooling??? just high speed fans in a small space and extraction can be enough on small setups.

Its not as simple as your question makes it

I am not sure of the BTU rating, but I will need to dissipate upwards of 40,000 watts.

Air flow would be a bit tricky.  I was planning on an intake and exhaust fan to get rid of humidity.  

The summer here are brutally hot....can get up to 110 F.  high speed fans don't really cut it in those conditions, at least they haven't the last couple years.  

Are you in AZ or Cali? I believe you can rent cooled spaces.
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December 31, 2013, 11:41:47 PM
 #36

We have a lot of the "silliest" answers here, from people who have no datacenter or AC experience. You put up a bounty, you get stupid spammers and beggars.

Before qualifying any answer as silly or stupid, I think we need to know some additional considerations such as the amount of money he is willing to spend.

If we take into account the kind of unit he is considering to buy, that sounds more like a kind of garage project, in the line of DIY and low cost solutions.

In the company where I work, we recently did an investment in a cooling solution. The company spent a bit more than 50,000 euros (about 80,000 USD) in a solution based on in-row equipment from APC, like the one linked below. This was a very small datacenter with a power consumption much lower than 40,000 W

http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=379

So, if someone is willing to spend an amount in the range of 3000~4000 USD, maybe the silly solutions are those intended for real datacenters. May be, if he had a budget in the range of 100,000 USD he would be addressing his doubts to a professional cooling consultant. May be he would be ordering and paying a whole study and a project instead of being offering 0.25 BTC (about 180 USD) looking for ideas into a community of unknown people.

This.

I am looking for low cost, DIY solutions.  This will be built out in space not originally intended for Crypto mining.  I want to keep expenses to a minimum.....no need to spend all the profit on cooling the damn things. 

If you want, I suggest using a dehumidifier to keep out moisture and look at this expert on youtube showing his mining rig shelf and how he sets up cooling. http://youtu.be/G5f_e4P6gMA
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January 01, 2014, 08:54:30 AM
 #37

We have a lot of the "silliest" answers here, from people who have no datacenter or AC experience. You put up a bounty, you get stupid spammers and beggars.

You basically have two choices:

- Traditional refrigerant air conditioning with a condensing outdoor unit,
- Evaporative "Swamp coolers", where facilities allow large outside berth for building flow-through, and the local weather is favorable.

*snip*


Evaporative cooling is measured a different way, in the temperature drop from intake air temp, with accompanying increased humidity. You can make 100F outside air into 75F inside air. However, you will need to look at the cubic feet per minute ratings of the systems to see what can keep up with your heat load. You may decide that 85F will be the maximum "output" temperature rise after air goes through your racks - for this much cooling, you will be looking at garage-door sized walls of fans from the outside and gallons of water per minute.

However, the evaporative cooling does have the advantage that you are putting in a massive outside air circulation system - the 75% of the day and year when outside air is below 75F, you will need nothing more than to run the fans.

Inside a closed air conditioned building, evaporative cooling may enhance efficiency a bit. AC removes humidity, to the point where the IDUs need to pump water out. You could add some humidity back to pre-cool the hot AC intake air (you can't humidify cold air AC output). The humidity would have to be strictly monitored to not go overboard or add more humidity than the AC can remove.

Whatever system is implemented, you need to direct airflow through your facility and systems, ideally in a typical contained hot/cool-aisle system:
*cut*

You could always try an evaporative system base on old technology, like a windcatcher
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windcatcher
Just get a mechanical engineer to do the required calculations
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January 01, 2014, 09:14:00 AM
 #38

We have a lot of the "silliest" answers here, from people who have no datacenter or AC experience. You put up a bounty, you get stupid spammers and beggars.

You basically have two choices:

- Traditional refrigerant air conditioning with a condensing outdoor unit,
- Evaporative "Swamp coolers", where facilities allow large outside berth for building flow-through, and the local weather is favorable.

*snip*


Evaporative cooling is measured a different way, in the temperature drop from intake air temp, with accompanying increased humidity. You can make 100F outside air into 75F inside air. However, you will need to look at the cubic feet per minute ratings of the systems to see what can keep up with your heat load. You may decide that 85F will be the maximum "output" temperature rise after air goes through your racks - for this much cooling, you will be looking at garage-door sized walls of fans from the outside and gallons of water per minute.

However, the evaporative cooling does have the advantage that you are putting in a massive outside air circulation system - the 75% of the day and year when outside air is below 75F, you will need nothing more than to run the fans.

Inside a closed air conditioned building, evaporative cooling may enhance efficiency a bit. AC removes humidity, to the point where the IDUs need to pump water out. You could add some humidity back to pre-cool the hot AC intake air (you can't humidify cold air AC output). The humidity would have to be strictly monitored to not go overboard or add more humidity than the AC can remove.

Whatever system is implemented, you need to direct airflow through your facility and systems, ideally in a typical contained hot/cool-aisle system:
*cut*

You could always try an evaporative system base on old technology, like a windcatcher
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windcatcher
Just get a mechanical engineer to do the required calculations


But OP hasent told us the size of his rig, he doesnt need to spend a alot of money doing this you know?
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January 01, 2014, 10:11:52 AM
 #39

Freeze lot's of ice while energy costs are low(at night), than melt it with coolant while costs are high (daytime). Might save up to 20% of cooling costs.  Cry
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January 01, 2014, 11:05:35 AM
 #40

But OP hasent told us the size of his rig, he doesnt need to spend a alot of money doing this you know?
really?
I am not sure of the BTU rating, but I will need to dissipate upwards of 40,000 watts.
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