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Author Topic: Meta-thread on the moderation of HashFast threads  (Read 2168 times)
amer
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January 01, 2014, 07:06:29 PM
 #21

I don't think this is an integrity issue on gmaxwell's part. I think he created his moderation rules at a time where scam accusations were limited to individuals that were scamming people out of Bitcoin, not corporate entities that are engaging in questionable/misleading practices. BFL, and now HashFast, have presented issues which do not fit into the framework initially established and now gmaxwell is feeling pressured to honor the existing (obsolete) rules that he established with a situation that does not cleanly fit into the rules.

Rules need to adapt with changing times. They cannot be inflexible and expected to be honored. Every rules system has a framework for amendment.

There are going to be more entities which produce custom hardware and the business practices associated with said entity need to be presented as a package, not splintered across the forum for some outdated forum organization. The fact is that if you intend propose, design, produce, modify, distribute and support hardware which has only one function - to mine bitcoin hardware - there needs to be a place to discuss it. If the proposal, design, production, modification or support of the hardware is questionable, no one bats an eye - but if the distribution has problems, then all of the sudden we need to move the discussion to scam accusation? That seems ridiculous.

I think the integrity conflict gmaxwell feels is stuck between trying to honor very specific, but incomplete, rules he created a year ago and the fact that we can discuss every nuance of HashFast's hardware in this forum, except their failure to deliver that hardware.

Shipping the first product doesn't mean a damn thing if you cannot effectively distribute and support that product once it is in the world. Most of a business is the distribution and support. That's the most critical part, there should be a place for customers to discuss it, and for companies that have a clue, for them to come and discuss it too.


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January 01, 2014, 11:52:38 PM
 #22

I don't think this is an integrity issue on gmaxwell's part. I think he created his moderation rules at a time where scam accusations were limited to individuals that were scamming people out of Bitcoin, not corporate entities that are engaging in questionable/misleading practices. BFL, and now HashFast, have presented issues which do not fit into the framework initially established and now gmaxwell is feeling pressured to honor the existing (obsolete) rules that he established with a situation that does not cleanly fit into the rules.

Rules need to adapt with changing times. They cannot be inflexible and expected to be honored. Every rules system has a framework for amendment.

There are going to be more entities which produce custom hardware and the business practices associated with said entity need to be presented as a package, not splintered across the forum for some outdated forum organization. The fact is that if you intend propose, design, produce, modify, distribute and support hardware which has only one function - to mine bitcoin hardware - there needs to be a place to discuss it. If the proposal, design, production, modification or support of the hardware is questionable, no one bats an eye - but if the distribution has problems, then all of the sudden we need to move the discussion to scam accusation? That seems ridiculous.

I think the integrity conflict gmaxwell feels is stuck between trying to honor very specific, but incomplete, rules he created a year ago and the fact that we can discuss every nuance of HashFast's hardware in this forum, except their failure to deliver that hardware.

Shipping the first product doesn't mean a damn thing if you cannot effectively distribute and support that product once it is in the world. Most of a business is the distribution and support. That's the most critical part, there should be a place for customers to discuss it, and for companies that have a clue, for them to come and discuss it too.



This is the place to discuss it (among others) - the problem arises when you have irrational and totally inappropriate people like Christian "Xian" Antkow, Darin Bicknell, Entropy-UC, et al "participating" with misinformation, outright lies and general trolling.  They contribute nothing constructive in any possible interpretation of the word and serve to just bring the forum down to near uselessness with their repeated posts of the same thing, shouting down anyone who might disagree with them and the outright lies they continue to perpetuate even in the face of indisputable contrary evidence.  

If you eliminate the worthless population like that, suddenly the forum becomes a much more useful place.  But in the interests of "Freedom of speech," the operators of the forum are loathe to eliminate useless individuals like that, sadly... so we end up with a useless forum.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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January 02, 2014, 01:38:49 AM
 #23

If you eliminate the worthless population like that, suddenly the forum becomes a much more useful place.

Thanks for the tip Adolf. (Just listen to yourself man!)
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January 02, 2014, 02:02:07 AM
 #24


goo goo gah gah slurp slurp mmmm mmmm


Worthless population should also include those who are associated with (work for) "companies" that continually and historically have always been untruthful and severely late with timelines and shipment...


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January 02, 2014, 02:06:51 AM
Last edit: January 02, 2014, 04:25:44 AM by Xian01
 #25

the problem arises when you have irrational and totally inappropriate people like Christian "Xian" Antkow, Darin Bicknell, Entropy-UC, et al "participating" with misinformation, outright lies and general trolling.  

 Honest question Josh. Do you recognize that you yourself are trolling ? Do you acknowledge that I was responding poorly to your trolling of these forums, and myself as a former customer of yours, back during your 65nm production debacle ?

 I would honestly like to know how I have spread misinformation, or outright lies about you or Butterfly Labs.

 Please. Let me know with details so I can offer apologies. Spreading lies is not my thing.

 You attempting to besmirch my good name speaks more to you than it does me. I don't think you see this either Sad

 Again, I'm not the bad guy here. Stop trying to paint me out to be one because I responded poorly to you over your consistent inability to offer accurate production information for over six months, all the while taunting and trolling us.

 I've aspired to take a higher road since then, Josh. Maybe that's something you can work towards as well in 2014.

 


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January 02, 2014, 01:14:33 PM
Last edit: January 02, 2014, 01:39:49 PM by Bicknellski
 #26


Shipping the first product doesn't mean a damn thing if you cannot effectively distribute and support that product once it is in the world. Most of a business is the distribution and support. That's the most critical part, there should be a place for customers to discuss it, and for companies that have a clue, for them to come and discuss it too.



When you try and do that in a honest way especially with BFL there is nothing near discussion. Even when people are polite and asking genuine questions in this forum they have been rudely rebuffed on countless occasions at some point moderators either need to step up or move out of the way and at least be honest about that. At this point it is clear they have no intentions of sanctioning those who are attacking others. It is clear pattern that is obvious to most but some how it is not as clear cut to the mods. I find that curious.

As far as I can tell, and if you would like me to spend about 2 or 3 days cataloging every instance where this is the case I could, but there is no point to doing that as it doesn't matter if there is clear evidence or pattern it is not being moderated as already stated in this thread there is nothing they are willing to do even though they posted those simple guidelines. The rules are not being followed. The moderators are not doing what they had promised and it is now clear that the only recourse for anyone who has a fair complaint with BFL is to do that anonymously here in this forum. That is a shameful state that this forum is in and that it has come to that because of a handful of people completely bereft of any moral and social obligations to this community and their customers which is indeed the most insidious part of this whole situation given they losses and time lost dealing with BFL. You want open and free dialogue great but you still have to have people who are going to play by some semblance of social and moral order.

BFL and their henchmen do not and they are clearly only here to derail pretty much any thread about BFL that shine light on what is going on to everyone and they do it mainly with personal attacks the people posting. This happens generally to ANY that stick their necks out and complain or posts negatively towards BFL. You know that is what has been going on here, as much as I do, as everyone in this forum who actually reads these forums widely can see.

What is the reason behind all the discord? In my view and I dare say the majority view of those following this it is a direct result, of again, just a few people not interested in engaging in a proper dialogue where the goal is to find a RESOLUTION. If you have two honest brokers looking to resolve a dispute no problem and things will then ultimately get resolved. BFL doesn't want to have that talk, they do not listen, they do not want to accept the consequences for their failures or minimally to find solutions for their customers and that is why there is so much discord. So we are then left with only one solution. Ignoring BFL and making certain to continuously and unfalteringly report all the crap they are doing as loudly and widely as possible so no one buys their products. That is fair. That is a fair result given the millions of dollars in losses they have caused 1000s of people and the fact they DO NOT WANT TO GENUINELY RESOLVE PROBLEMS.

Dogie trust abuse, spam, bullying, conspiracy posts & insults to forum members. Ask the mods or admins to move Dogie's spam or off topic stalking posts to the link above.
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