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Author Topic: DeepBit Controls About 40% of the Hashrate, Should We Be Afraid?  (Read 2485 times)
EuSouBitcoin
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August 26, 2011, 01:22:11 AM
 #1

I just looked at
http://www.bitcoinwatch.com/
where a graph at the bottom shows the Hashrate Distribution.
DeepBit looks to have about 40%. If they get over 50% does that mean that they compromise the Bitcoin network?
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deslok
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August 26, 2011, 01:43:06 AM
 #2

This is not the first time this has been brought up and we're still all here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7562.0;all

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Graet
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August 26, 2011, 01:47:41 AM
 #3

no
*if* they get over 50% or the network they have a "chance" of taking over the network (if they wanted to), but even at 90% of the network there is still a 10% a chance they would not succeed.
A group of Pool owners including Tycho from deepbit discussed this one evening in depth.

Even so it would be good to see Bitcoin's hashing power less concentrated . If it is a concern for you mine on a mid sized pool and encourage your friends and acquaintances too Cheesy

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sharky112065
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August 26, 2011, 08:08:21 AM
 #4

Even if they do get over 50%, I do not believe they would crap where they eat. Why would they do anything harmful that would damage their reputation and thus end their source of income?

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August 26, 2011, 08:26:44 AM
 #5

Is there a reason for deepbit to be so popular despite it's being popular anyway?

I mean they charge the highest percentage and all these 'advantages' they offer like paying for invalid blocks is a statistical zero sum game...

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
sharky112065
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August 26, 2011, 09:18:47 AM
 #6

Is there a reason for deepbit to be so popular despite it's being popular anyway?

I mean they charge the highest percentage and all these 'advantages' they offer like paying for invalid blocks is a statistical zero sum game...

Less variance.

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August 26, 2011, 09:43:35 AM
 #7

Is there a reason for deepbit to be so popular despite it's being popular anyway?

I mean they charge the highest percentage and all these 'advantages' they offer like paying for invalid blocks is a statistical zero sum game...

Less variance.
That's one too... and any most popular pool would offer the least variance afik.

It seems my suspicion is justified....

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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August 26, 2011, 10:57:12 AM
 #8

Is there a reason for deepbit to be so popular despite it's being popular anyway?

I mean they charge the highest percentage and all these 'advantages' they offer like paying for invalid blocks is a statistical zero sum game...

noobs assume biggest = best, easier than researching Wink

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Sukrim
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August 26, 2011, 07:40:52 PM
 #9

Is there a reason for deepbit to be so popular despite it's being popular anyway?

I mean they charge the highest percentage and all these 'advantages' they offer like paying for invalid blocks is a statistical zero sum game...

Less variance.
Any PPS pool has the lowest possible variance... there's no need to be big!

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
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Jack of Diamonds
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August 26, 2011, 09:41:21 PM
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Is there a reason for deepbit to be so popular despite it's being popular anyway?

I mean they charge the highest percentage and all these 'advantages' they offer like paying for invalid blocks is a statistical zero sum game...

Less variance.
Any PPS pool has the lowest possible variance... there's no need to be big!

True.. Size doesn't matter with PPS.
Until ~2 months ago nobody else had the balls to compete with deepbit though.

If I'm not mistaken, rfcpool.com was the first competitor with their 7% PPS scheme, though they switched to some other reward model.

Now we have btcpool24.com and abcpool.co which are 0% pure PPS, with optional donations.

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sharky112065
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August 26, 2011, 11:18:00 PM
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Is there a reason for deepbit to be so popular despite it's being popular anyway?

I mean they charge the highest percentage and all these 'advantages' they offer like paying for invalid blocks is a statistical zero sum game...

Less variance.
Any PPS pool has the lowest possible variance... there's no need to be big!

Yes but when your miners are on Proportional (Not PPS) there is less variance at Deepbit because of the higher Hash rate.

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Sukrim
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August 27, 2011, 12:03:34 AM
 #12

If any of your miners are on proportional, you'd better run a pool hopper! Tongue

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sharky112065
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August 27, 2011, 01:25:52 AM
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If any of your miners are on proportional, you'd better run a pool hopper! Tongue

Never! I will not stoop to fucking other miners out of what they should be getting.

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Sukrim
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August 27, 2011, 09:26:49 AM
 #14

Just saying that you WILL loose money on any proportional pool to pool hoppers if you don't hop yourself.

If you don't want to hop, don't go prop!
(unless you feel charitable of course - in that case, happy mining!)

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August 27, 2011, 10:13:12 AM
 #15

Just saying that you WILL loose money on any proportional pool to pool hoppers if you don't hop yourself.

If you don't want to hop, don't go prop!
(unless you feel charitable of course - in that case, happy mining!)
I'm yet looking for proof of statistical significance that pool hopping even makes a difference.
It seems to be based on the assumption that there is some measurable "pool luck". However, mathematically the chances of a certain hashrate  at a difficulty are always the same independently if the last 2 blocks where a month or 2 seconds apart.

Now there is something else which could factor into the equation, namely corrupt pool operators keeping blocks for themselves. If that is the case pool hopping can certainly make a difference. And if it really does this is proof that lots of pool operators are doing this.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
Sukrim
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August 27, 2011, 05:16:14 PM
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Just saying that you WILL loose money on any proportional pool to pool hoppers if you don't hop yourself.

If you don't want to hop, don't go prop!
(unless you feel charitable of course - in that case, happy mining!)
I'm yet looking for proof of statistical significance that pool hopping even makes a difference.
It seems to be based on the assumption that there is some measurable "pool luck". However, mathematically the chances of a certain hashrate  at a difficulty are always the same independently if the last 2 blocks where a month or 2 seconds apart.

No, it's based on the definition of Prop. that early shares are worth more than late shares. For more info look up the users Raulo and Meni Rosenfeld in this forum, Meni is working on a more thorough paper on this topic and Raulo published the initial findings already in February - including a mathematical proof.

Maybe a more real-world example helps:
Imagine some nice guys in vans just opposite a school (=pool operators) who give out various amounts of candy to kids (=miners) each day.
The kids that manage to be quick and be always first in line will "earn" more candy than other kids that are a bit more lazy and just check every now and then if the van of their choice is there and also end up in the end of a long queue while the quick kids either are already at other vans or trying to earn money for candy elsewhere.
These quick kids (that monitor several vans and run quickly to the next one arriving) will however be eyed suspiciously by other kids, as they earn more candy. Some even say that they "steal" candy from them, just by lining up in front of them each time. Also the risk of being screwed by one of these nice guys in a van (who rarely even have a license plate to be able to identify them on their website van) increases of course.

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Artefact2
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August 28, 2011, 12:43:25 PM
 #17

but even at 90% of the network there is still a 10% a chance they would not succeed.

No. that's not how it works. It's not that simple. Please refrain yourself from posting wrong statements.

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noob_jul11
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August 30, 2011, 04:17:06 PM
 #18

Is there a reason for deepbit to be so popular despite it's being popular anyway?

I mean they charge the highest percentage and all these 'advantages' they offer like paying for invalid blocks is a statistical zero sum game...

noobs assume biggest = best, easier than researching Wink

I am a noob; but I don't assume biggest = best.

What's the alternative to deepbit? Let's examine this ..
2nd to deepbit is slush? I tried slush, I didn't like the fact that they don't have instant payout and their payout is at 0.01 denomination. Call it a deja vu effect but was totally unhappy with the experience I had with bitcoinpool.com and bitcoinplus.com

3rd in line is btcguild.com. I love that site until recently ... search btcguild.com and you'll find a thread about possible scam.
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August 30, 2011, 04:32:32 PM
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Is there a reason for deepbit to be so popular despite it's being popular anyway?

I mean they charge the highest percentage and all these 'advantages' they offer like paying for invalid blocks is a statistical zero sum game...

noobs assume biggest = best, easier than researching Wink

I am a noob; but I don't assume biggest = best.

What's the alternative to deepbit? Let's examine this ..
2nd to deepbit is slush? I tried slush, I didn't like the fact that they don't have instant payout and their payout is at 0.01 denomination. Call it a deja vu effect but was totally unhappy with the experience I had with bitcoinpool.com and bitcoinplus.com

3rd in line is btcguild.com. I love that site until recently ... search btcguild.com and you'll find a thread about possible scam.

ABCPool ? I currently have 8 GHash on this pool, and it totally rocks. Pay per share with 0% fee.

http://www.abcpool.co/index.php
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August 30, 2011, 05:15:58 PM
 #20

ABCPool ? I currently have 8 GHash on this pool, and it totally rocks. Pay per share with 0% fee.

http://www.abcpool.co/index.php
I'd love to join, but...
Quote
Sorry, we're full!

Due to overwhelming demand we have to stop accepting new users for now.

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
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