"BTC Is backed by nothing while the USD is backed by 'full faith' of US gov't"

[bovcan]

It's amazing how I read this all the time, but it makes no sense.  

How does the USA back the value of the dollar??   There is no gold standard any longer.  If there is hyperinflation and your dollars become close to worthless, what do you think the US gov't is going to give you to "back up" your dollars?  

They aren't going to give you gold.... land..... or even more dollars...they aren't going to give you anything.  Maybe an insincere "sorry, we screwed up" but most likely not even that.

Am I missing something here or are people who say that just as dumb/clueless as I think they are???

[doof]

Its not really dumb, its just a lot isn't taught in schools.  Not a lot of people can answer "where does money come from?".  Banks generate cash flow through loans, and 80% of money is debt.

[Honeypot]

US Dollar, the representative of the financial/economic aspect of this nation, is backed by the political, industrial, military, and national will of the United States. As is any other national currency on earth.

It belongs to Americans, controlled by Americans and American government, and those whose identity and loyalty is American.


Same goes for any other national currency on earth. It's a means to project your own economic and national abilities and representations of your interests with others based on a coinage/currency that is ultimately based on your will and abilities to make influential through having something to offer.

In the case of United States, that 'something to offer' is vastly greater in terms of raw power, population (remember, after population anomalies such as india and china, US has the highest population among 'normal sized' nations with pop estimated to reach 330 million within early this decade), industrial background, resources, and willingness to fight.

Also, contrary to what every fool says about 'well your currency collapses and you have nothing' - that's a fool's delusion. Remember the three triad of power: Influence (charisma, abilities to persuade and influence others with your will and beliefs), Wealth (something real and useful that can provide material backing), and ultimately, Violence (the will and capability to wield the power to kill and overpower your enemies). Just because you weaken one aspect of that doesn't mean the other is completely helpless - on the contrary, having just one gives opportunity acquire and invigorate the other.

In essence, American identity and ability to achieve results gives it confidence and trust, not to mention relatively stabilizing influence American backing has on majority of nations that allied with America post-ww2. The will and intent to use power to not only benefit itself but to reinvigorate another, compared to other outright domination-inclined states such as china (events in south china sea and around its borders made china's intent clear to any of its neighbors) is what give American Dollar it's backing.

You are missing something. It's called understanding of power and competent usage of such power. My confidence in my nation would be shaken if we tried to having a pissing contest on the international stage over a piece of rock due to 'historical ownership' or some such bull shit.

Influence, Wealth, and Violence. Will to use these factors and driving force of intent as an American. That's what makes the dollar what it is. Same with every other nation on earth. Currency is but a representation of one of these things.


Edit: Also, the fact that America is relatively speaking geographically separate from the rest of the world (sans canada, but we also share the longest demilitarized borders and are practically one in the same, realistically speaking), and therefore makes for an attractive ally, even though its power is more than capable of spilling over its borders. This is due to the fact that having US too close is like having an elephant in the room - no matter how gentle and well-natured, you will feel its presence with every twitch and grunt. However, Since most of the rest of the world is separated from US by two great oceans, this natural risk of overpowering due to size of power by a nation in close proximity is reduced (compared to china and its neighbors). However, US is also perfectly capable of projecting and extending its power across the globe if its purposefully wills (11 carrier groups with plenty to reinforce them, 22 amphibious groups and marine expeditionary forces for a start). However, they will not be called upon unless someone expressly wills it so, as opposed to naturally spilling over. Consider the fact that  nations are in conflict simply due to interferences upon each other by nature of their proximity.

Therefore, coupled with the fact that you will have the backing of an influential and powerful nation with little side effect of having such power too close, and the fact that any 'intervention' can only be achieved if US purposefully wills it outright (once again, reducing the natural unintended risk of having something in your living room as opposed to next town over), and you have a very ideal position to become a powerful and influential backer.

Hence, the economic strength of US dollar in one aspect.

[Bigeyeone]

Bottom line is USD is ultimately backed by force, by guns, if you live in the USA and you have wealth you need USD to stay out of prison, pretty powerful backing if you ask me, people tend to value their liberty a lot , now you can argue that initiation of force is unmoral all day long , but it is what it is.

Bitcoin is backed by market demand only, all of us promoting it because we believe in it's value as a currency, but this believe is not as rock solid as the power of the US government to force people to use the $

[Honeypot]

Bottom line is USD is ultimately backed by force, by guns, if you live in the USA and you have wealth you need USD to stay out of prison, pretty powerful backing if you ask me, people tend to value their liberty a lot , now you can argue that initiation of force is unmoral all day long , but it is what it is.

Bitcoin is backed by market demand only, all of us promoting it because we believe in it's value as a currency, but this believe is not as rock solid as the power of the US government to force people to use the $

I suppose to you I am forced to steal from jewlery shops because they display wealth something I don't have.

Or maybe I am 'forced' to use USD because I would definitely use fucking rmb or euro instead if I don't want to go to jail in US.

Get over yourself. Always bitching about how you are 'forced' to do something because you are incapable, when that 'forced' party is practically offering gold for 1% of your time on yearly basis. 

[Bigeyeone]

Bottom line is USD is ultimately backed by force, by guns, if you live in the USA and you have wealth you need USD to stay out of prison, pretty powerful backing if you ask me, people tend to value their liberty a lot , now you can argue that initiation of force is unmoral all day long , but it is what it is.

Bitcoin is backed by market demand only, all of us promoting it because we believe in it's value as a currency, but this believe is not as rock solid as the power of the US government to force people to use the $

I suppose to you I am forced to steal from jewlery shops because they display wealth something I don't have.

Or maybe I am 'forced' to use USD because I would definitely use fucking rmb or euro instead if I don't want to go to jail in US.

Get over yourself. Always bitching about how you are 'forced' to do something because you are incapable, when that 'forced' party is practically offering gold for 1% of your time on yearly basis. 

Well if you know of a way to not pay taxes and not go to jail  , please let me know 

[Honeypot]

Bottom line is USD is ultimately backed by force, by guns, if you live in the USA and you have wealth you need USD to stay out of prison, pretty powerful backing if you ask me, people tend to value their liberty a lot , now you can argue that initiation of force is unmoral all day long , but it is what it is.

Bitcoin is backed by market demand only, all of us promoting it because we believe in it's value as a currency, but this believe is not as rock solid as the power of the US government to force people to use the $

I suppose to you I am forced to steal from jewlery shops because they display wealth something I don't have.

Or maybe I am 'forced' to use USD because I would definitely use fucking rmb or euro instead if I don't want to go to jail in US.

Get over yourself. Always bitching about how you are 'forced' to do something because you are incapable, when that 'forced' party is practically offering gold for 1% of your time on yearly basis.  

Well if you know of a way to not pay taxes and not go to jail  , please let me know  

If you know anywhere a nation that doesn't prosecute you for not paying taxes, you let me know too

In the mean time, try not use gas, electricity, public road, public transportation, and public park, not to mention water and sewage either. You hate things provided by the tax dollars, I think. So funny of you to not take such things seriously when you are sitting pretty bitching about inconveniences in your developed world mentality.

[jbrock11]

It's like Paul Krugman said the other day, "Fiat money, if you like, is backed by men with guns."

[Honeypot]

It's like Paul Krugman said the other day, "Fiat money, if you like, is backed by men with guns."

Give me something influential that ISN'T backed with some form of force and I will sell you that bridge in brooklyn.

[Bigeyeone]

Bottom line is USD is ultimately backed by force, by guns, if you live in the USA and you have wealth you need USD to stay out of prison, pretty powerful backing if you ask me, people tend to value their liberty a lot , now you can argue that initiation of force is unmoral all day long , but it is what it is.

Bitcoin is backed by market demand only, all of us promoting it because we believe in it's value as a currency, but this believe is not as rock solid as the power of the US government to force people to use the $

I suppose to you I am forced to steal from jewlery shops because they display wealth something I don't have.

Or maybe I am 'forced' to use USD because I would definitely use fucking rmb or euro instead if I don't want to go to jail in US.

Get over yourself. Always bitching about how you are 'forced' to do something because you are incapable, when that 'forced' party is practically offering gold for 1% of your time on yearly basis.  

Well if you know of a way to not pay taxes and not go to jail  , please let me know  

If you know anywhere a nation that doesn't prosecute you for not paying taxes, you let me know too

In the mean time, try not use gas, electricity, public road, public transportation, and public park, not to mention water and sewage either. You hate things provided by the tax dollars, I think. So funny of you to not take such things seriously when you are sitting pretty bitching about inconveniences in your developed world mentality.

I am not bitching about any of those thing, I just explained how the USD is backed by taxation, by force, whether we like it or not, while BTC is backed by market demand only.

[zagerfish]

In it's entire history I'm not aware of the dollar ever collapsing in value. 

Unlike 3rd world countries, the US has a very good track record in keeping the value of it's currency.

Yes, the dollar has a reasonable rate of inflation (unlike 3rd world countries) but that is not the same as a collapse in the currency.


___________________________________
Get 420 with bitcoins at zeltasgarden.com

[Honeypot]

Bottom line is USD is ultimately backed by force, by guns, if you live in the USA and you have wealth you need USD to stay out of prison, pretty powerful backing if you ask me, people tend to value their liberty a lot , now you can argue that initiation of force is unmoral all day long , but it is what it is.

Bitcoin is backed by market demand only, all of us promoting it because we believe in it's value as a currency, but this believe is not as rock solid as the power of the US government to force people to use the $

I suppose to you I am forced to steal from jewlery shops because they display wealth something I don't have.

Or maybe I am 'forced' to use USD because I would definitely use fucking rmb or euro instead if I don't want to go to jail in US.

Get over yourself. Always bitching about how you are 'forced' to do something because you are incapable, when that 'forced' party is practically offering gold for 1% of your time on yearly basis. 

Well if you know of a way to not pay taxes and not go to jail  , please let me know 

If you know anywhere a nation that doesn't prosecute you for not paying taxes, you let me know too

In the mean time, try not use gas, electricity, public road, public transportation, and public park, not to mention water and sewage either. You hate things provided by the tax dollars, I think. So funny of you to not take such things seriously when you are sitting pretty bitching about inconveniences in your developed world mentality.

I am not bitching about any of those thing, I just explained how the USD is backed by taxation, by force, whether we like it or not, while BTC is backed by market demand only.

Which is why it will be ultimately subordinate to some form of authority and force.

Because DPR had such a 'market driven demand' that saved him from the feds for drug dealing and attempted contract murder.

[beetcoin]

what it means is that if the dollar fails, the fed will continue to print more and more money.. and that is why fiat is so much better. apparently.

[Honeypot]

In it's entire history I'm not aware of the dollar ever collapsing in value.  

Unlike 3rd world countries, the US has a very good track record in keeping the value of it's currency.

Yes, the dollar has a reasonable rate of inflation (unlike 3rd world countries) but that is not the same as a collapse in the currency.


___________________________________
Get 420 with bitcoins at zeltasgarden.com

While it is never perfect trying to say 'that's the way things were, it will continue to be', those who don't even have that much of a track record should watch their mouths before bitching about 'hurrrrr collapse of dollar huuuurrrrrr'.

For every dollar America owes to the world, they owe about 0.9 dollars back. Since interest rates on average is higher for American-owned foreign debt, we are at the very least breaking even on an yearly basis - hence the economic growth of 2.5 this year which is rising.

I wonder how many people are aware the world owes money to america as much as US owes them. Not to mention all the foundation of global economy runs on American will and backing. If America were to back out of global economic engine, the ENTIRE WORLD will fall into long half-century severe depression, with America experiencing recession, from which we will recover within 10 years.

China? Their economy is in the end too dependent on concentration in the hands of few, much more so than America, not to mention their attitude makes enemies of their numerous neighbors. Not to mention they really haven't weened themselves off of export trade based economy by any stretch of imagination because relying on domestic market means redistribution of wealth, which means more voice to the common people - and aspect HATED by upper rich class in china. More to the point, their culture is too child-like in its mentality to act a leader. The old saying, 'China talks, no one really listens' has a real basis.

[Raghnar]

Bottom line is USD is ultimately backed by force, by guns.

The utility of the US dollar as being used as a currency is backed by the US gov't, but not the value of the currency.  What is the use of being able to legally spend the USD if it isn't worth anything?   People discount the effect of inflation on their money, and especially the possible hypter-inflation. 

And of course BTC doesn't need to be backed by anyone to be used, although certainly it may get to the point where it is illegal to transact with it.  That will slow it down of course but won't stop it.

[Raghnar]

In it's entire history I'm not aware of the dollar ever collapsing in value.  

Unlike 3rd world countries, the US has a very good track record in keeping the value of it's currency.

Huh?  The USD has lost something like 97% of its purchasing power since it was introduced.  

[Bigeyeone]

In it's entire history I'm not aware of the dollar ever collapsing in value.  

Unlike 3rd world countries, the US has a very good track record in keeping the value of it's currency.

Huh?  The USD has lost something like 97% of its purchasing power since it was introduced.  

yes 97 % in 100 years or something ever since the FED was introduced

[Honeypot]

In it's entire history I'm not aware of the dollar ever collapsing in value. 

Unlike 3rd world countries, the US has a very good track record in keeping the value of it's currency.

Huh?  The USD has lost something like 97% of its purchasing power since it was introduced.   

yes 97 % in 100 years or something ever since the FED was introduced

Of course, no other currency has been debased over that age 100 times its original value.....or 200.....or 1000...or even survive....

LOL

[Kazimir]

BTC is backed by the laws of mathematics and the power of cryptography.

USD is backed by the 'full faith' of the US govt.

I sure as hell know which of these two I trust more.

[Bigeyeone]

BTC is backed by the laws of mathematics and the power of cryptography.

USD is backed by the 'full faith' of the US govt.

I sure as hell know which of these two I trust more.

only the supply side is backed by mathematics and cryptography, demand side is backed by market demand only, by all of us believing it is useful as a currency, without demand BTC is worthless no matter how rock solid it's supply is