Bitcoin worthless if not usable as currency!??

[Dr Bloggood]

Many posters around this forum say that BTC can only become bigger when a better infrastructure around it develops - more stores accepting it, more ATMs, etc... The more infrastructure ----> the wider spread ---> the higher the value. Basically, we need people to use it as a currency, to actually buy stuff with BTC for it to succeed in the long run.

That sounded all good and reasonable to me until recently, when it occured to me that in case the world economy was tanking (and it IS tanking...), and everybody was desperately looking to savely store their savings away (and even better: store them anonymously!), then maybe that would be enough to make BTC huge!

Imagine a world in which your currency keeps on losing value, inflation going through the roof, no end in sight, and finally the average Joseph GRASPING what is taking place! Furthermore, imagine there is nowhere to turn to: Bank savings don't render any real gain anymore and there might be a bail-in, bonds laughable, the stock market maybe an option, but maybe too crazy, real estate too expensive already; so everybody is turning to gold, silver or BTC...

I just wanted to paint an extreme case scenario there, but even if that isn't the case (soon) - the world economy might run our direction....

Could BTC become very valuable without even anybody buying anything with it - just by being a store of value?

[TippingPoint]

Could BTC become very valuable without even anybody buying anything with it?

If BTC is very valuable, then it is logical and inevitable that people will use it for transactions.  People already barter other things.  And bitcoin has advantages that make it useful for transactions.  Divisability for example.

[Dr Bloggood]

Could BTC become very valuable without even anybody buying anything with it?

If BTC is very valuable, then it is logical and inevitable that people will use it for transactions.  People already barter other things.  And bitcoin has advantages that make it useful for transactions.  Divisability for example.

I'm not saying it won't be or can't be used for transactions.

The question is: If you take this as a given, if you suppose BTC is not used for transactions other than "buying for storage" - could the price still rise skyhigh?

[Jcw188]

No I don't think it's valuable at all if it's not useful.  One could argue it's value went up as people began to see they could use it for silk road.  Now there is a chance it could go mainstream, making it more valuable.

To answer your clarification, I guess it COULD, but it seems unlikely.  Gold is used like this but gold has a use, although it's usually more for things like jewelry, which isn't actually a practical use.

[Dr Bloggood]

To answer your clarification, I guess it COULD, but it seems unlikely.  Gold is used like this but gold has a use, although it's usually more for things like jewelry, which isn't actually a practical use.

I was thinking about gold instantly when reading your first sentence.

I would say jewelry IS practical use, but gold is worth so much that really its value is pretty detached from that practical use of being used as jewelry...

[_wayfarer_]

I think saying it's a store of value without needing to be a strict currency is fine.  It behaves more like gold or silver in the marketplace, in that the price is volatile, and it can be bartered with relatively easy. In this sense, as long as the price gets a least MORE stable, it will be useful for many things, mainly as a safety store of value for long-term savings, and for currency exchange.  To me, currency exchange is the real sleeper value, it is being vastly underestimated because people are hung up on the currency thing.  Sure, it is still useful as currency, and will be used as such, but I'm not even convinced that is the main use.

I expect BTC to be eventually adapted to products with customers that don't even need to deal directly with the underlying wallets.  An example would be international micro-payments that are instantly converted to local fiat as quickly as possible.  This will take serious investment as you'll need a physical presence in each supported country, but if it's done right it could become a serious inexpensive competitor to companies like Western Union.  No BTC handling required!

[bitcoinforsale.net]

Even though it can't be use as a currency it can still be use as 'good as gold' bond.
Some people use bitcoin like stocks, bonds.

[Dr Bloggood]

To me, currency exchange is the real sleeper value, it is being vastly underestimated because people are hung up on the currency thing. 

What do you mean by that?

If I exchange my currency into another one, why would I go through BTC?

[Erdogan]

For bitcoin to be money, it has to be both a store of value and a medium of exchange. The two functions are inseparable. If you wish, you can compare the two functions to other money, and decide that one is better as a medium of exchange, or better as a store of value. But bitcoin has to have both functions. If it can not store value, it can not be a medium of exchange, and if it can not be used for exchange, it will have no value.

[_wayfarer_]

To me, currency exchange is the real sleeper value, it is being vastly underestimated because people are hung up on the currency thing. 

What do you mean by that?

If I exchange my currency into another one, why would I go through BTC?

Because the fees are vastly less expensive than the ones currently imposed by banks.

[Dr Bloggood]

To me, currency exchange is the real sleeper value, it is being vastly underestimated because people are hung up on the currency thing. 

What do you mean by that?

If I exchange my currency into another one, why would I go through BTC?

Because the fees are vastly less expensive than the ones currently imposed by banks.

Ok, got it.

For that purpose, it needs to be a LOT more stable though, otherwise you are risking big changes of exchange rates two times.

[_wayfarer_]

To me, currency exchange is the real sleeper value, it is being vastly underestimated because people are hung up on the currency thing.  

What do you mean by that?

If I exchange my currency into another one, why would I go through BTC?

Because the fees are vastly less expensive than the ones currently imposed by banks.

Ok, got it.

For that purpose, it needs to be a LOT more stable though, otherwise you are risking big changes of exchange rates two times.

I agree it needs to be more stable, but I'm only of the opinion that it needs to be a little more stable, with a general upwards trend, so that the risk is easier to calculate.  No one can pretend to be able to predict the future value, but I'm told it should be possible to predict general short-term volatility.  As long as this volatility is not too much worse than gold or silver, we should be ok.

Think of the possibilities, it's like gold that can be transmitted electronically!  This will give it huge advantages for money changing, it could disrupt the whole industry if someone manages to do the math.

[beetcoin]

i kinda agree.. bitcoin would be worthless if u couldn't spend it as money. if gold could be cut into smaller pieces, since it's fungible, you'd be able to use it as money as well.

[jackioflap]

Remember gold was once used directly as currency. Its been a very long time but if we were to do so again the value of gold would drop quite drasticly. The USD used to base it value on the amount of gold was held in the country. But since then the USD has dropped in value dismaly because it just keeps getting printed. Theres more and more so as the amount in existence increases the value keeps getting flushed. If more gold were mined to keep up it wouldnt be tanking so hard. Unfortunatly there is only so much to be found.

BTC has no such issue. There will be only so much produced so inflation wont have as hefty an effect. But once it is all mined its stability will increase as well. I believe when that happens its role as an actual currency will be more plausable. Just like the old west gold rushes people are queing up to get theirs and it shot the value through the roof. When the rush was over and it went fom torrent to trickle the value leveled out. The same will happen to BTC. Then it will be more easily accepted.

[Dr Bloggood]

To me, currency exchange is the real sleeper value, it is being vastly underestimated because people are hung up on the currency thing.  

What do you mean by that?

If I exchange my currency into another one, why would I go through BTC?

Because the fees are vastly less expensive than the ones currently imposed by banks.

Ok, got it.

For that purpose, it needs to be a LOT more stable though, otherwise you are risking big changes of exchange rates two times.

I agree it needs to be more stable, but I'm only of the opinion that it needs to be a little more stable, with a general upwards trend, so that the risk is easier to calculate.  No one can pretend to be able to predict the future value, but I'm told it should be possible to predict general short-term volatility.  As long as this volatility is not too much worse than gold or silver, we should be ok.

Think of the possibilities, it's like gold that can be transmitted electronically!  This will give it huge advantages for money changing, it could disrupt the whole industry if someone manages to do the math.

As long as this volatility is not too much worse than other currencies, we should be ok. 

[Dr Bloggood]

Remember gold was once used directly as currency. Its been a very long time but if we were to do so again the value of gold would drop quite drasticly. The USD used to base it value on the amount of gold was held in the country. But since then the USD has dropped in value dismaly because it just keeps getting printed. Theres more and more so as the amount in existence increases the value keeps getting flushed. If more gold were mined to keep up it wouldnt be tanking so hard. Unfortunatly there is only so much to be found.

I'm glad gold is rare and can't be devalued by the crooks and banksters....!

If gold was used as a currency, the value wouldn't drop, all to the contrary - it would have to be revaluated many, many times higher.

[odolvlobo]

Could BTC become very valuable without even anybody buying anything with it - just by being a store of value?

Beanie Babies were a store of value for a short time, but their values eventually dropped to nothing because they had very little utility.

If Bitcoin were no longer used as a payment system, then it will also have been just another fad, and its value will drop to nothing. Basically, what good is a bitcoin if you can't spend it?

[skivrmt]

Could BTC become very valuable without even anybody buying anything with it - just by being a store of value?

Beanie Babies were a store of value for a short time, but their values eventually dropped to nothing because they had very little utility.

If Bitcoin were no longer used as a payment system, then it will also have been just another fad, and its value will drop to nothing. Basically, what good is a bitcoin if you can't spend it?

Gold and Bitcoins are actually more similar than people realize.  People say, well, I can hold and touch gold.  But in reality gold is fairly useless.  You can build with it (well, Mayans did, haha), you can't eat it, it can't keep you warm, etc.  Gold has a value of X an oz right now because that is what someone is willing to pay for it, simple as that.  Bitcoin has a value of X right now because that is what someone is willing to pay for it. 

Other metals have a lot more use than gold but gold has become the "standard" over time, its rarity contributing partly to that.

Bitcoin has become valuable because it was first to the market and has a fairly limited supply of coins in the world.

If Bitcoin can't buy anything, it's basically worthless.  Wool will always have a value, albeit small, because you can do something with it.  Bitcoin and gold you cannot.

[nastybit]

Many thinks Bitcoin can protect them from inflation but I don't see this happening, the price is highly volatile and most of the time you have to come back to FIAT to spend (at least for now)
I can see Bitcoin as both store of value and currency. As currency it will be limited only to certain uses where there is an actual benefit, maybe internet transaction without subscription and forex. I can't see it going mainstream and be accepted to buy a coffee or a sandwich, at least for a few years.

[pjviitas]

Could BTC become very valuable without even anybody buying anything with it - just by being a store of value?

Beanie Babies were a store of value for a short time, but their values eventually dropped to nothing because they had very little utility.

If Bitcoin were no longer used as a payment system, then it will also have been just another fad, and its value will drop to nothing. Basically, what good is a bitcoin if you can't spend it?

Gold and Bitcoins are actually more similar than people realize.  People say, well, I can hold and touch gold.  But in reality gold is fairly useless.  You can build with it (well, Mayans did, haha), you can't eat it, it can't keep you warm, etc.  Gold has a value of X an oz right now because that is what someone is willing to pay for it, simple as that.  Bitcoin has a value of X right now because that is what someone is willing to pay for it. 

Other metals have a lot more use than gold but gold has become the "standard" over time, its rarity contributing partly to that.

Bitcoin has become valuable because it was first to the market and has a fairly limited supply of coins in the world.

If Bitcoin can't buy anything, it's basically worthless.  Wool will always have a value, albeit small, because you can do something with it.  Bitcoin and gold you cannot.

+1

In reality if the #*^% hit the fan the way the OP is saying, the only things with any value will be food, water, shelter, bullets and possibly fuel.

No one will care about any currency including fiat, precious metals or crypto's