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Author Topic: Europe out of the mining game?  (Read 7072 times)
BkkCoins
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August 27, 2011, 10:22:07 AM
 #1

According to my rough figuring at the price of electricity in Europe (18 - 40 cents/kWH?) shouldn't there be a lot of European miners turning off their rigs now?

Either you lose money or hope and pray that Bitcoins move back up in price again before too long.

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August 27, 2011, 10:29:52 AM
 #2

In Greece we are at 0.087 EUR/KWh. Still bearable.

By my calculations, 1 KWh for a dedicated miner produces 0.06 BTC which is 0.35 EUR currently.

Fiat no more.
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August 27, 2011, 10:46:21 AM
 #3

I'm paying about the same here in Thailand, 0.104 US$/kWH. In EU that would be 0.072 /kWH.

But this week I have only been able to maintain about 0.250 BTC/Day @ 360 Watts.

That's 0.250/24/.360 = 0.029 BTC/kWH. Half what you say. It's varied both up and down but it hasn't been very close to the supposed average according to online calculators.

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August 27, 2011, 10:49:59 AM
 #4

Yeah it's pretty much done over here.  Undecided

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August 27, 2011, 01:47:31 PM
 #5

there are those that have acces to free electricity,yup im thinkin bout myself , but dont have enough $ to create profitable mining rigs.
i only have 1x 5830 mining, and 1x 5870 comming to join.

imagine mining with no costs xcept initial rigs...

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August 27, 2011, 01:55:38 PM
 #6

If you've got free electricity you'd rather grow pot.

Anyway I call bullshit.

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August 27, 2011, 03:32:08 PM
 #7

If you've got free electricity you'd rather grow pot.

Anyway I call bullshit.

There are plenty of people who have either free electricity from the university where they host their machine or where they work. Not to mention living quarters with flatrate electricity. (of course somebody else is paying for it, so technically it's not free).
 
Or if you invested in solar power, 25k kWh/year gives you plenty of room to run a few miners. Fact, not bullshit.
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August 27, 2011, 03:45:59 PM
 #8

If you've got free electricity you'd rather grow pot.

Anyway I call bullshit.

There are plenty of people who have either free electricity from the university where they host their machine or where they work. Not to mention living quarters with flatrate electricity. (of course somebody else is paying for it, so technically it's not free).
 
Or if you invested in solar power, 25k kWh/year gives you plenty of room to run a few miners. Fact, not bullshit.
Well the one is stealing which will get noticed if you consume a significant amount and the other.

And solar power panels are still too expensive their roi is even worse than the mining rigs and I doubt that anyone who writes here and claims free electricity has a high end solar system.

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August 27, 2011, 04:55:33 PM
 #9

It's quite likely that some european miners have a PV (photovoltaic) system installed - there are lots of funds and grants for this stuff and the ROI is maybe not as good as BTC mining (potentially, with lots of risks!) but FAR more stable and secured. Also manufacturers give up to 30 years of warrranty on panels, the decay is far slower than in the "moore's law" computer world.


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August 27, 2011, 05:19:10 PM
 #10

If you've got free electricity you'd rather grow pot.

Growing pot is illegal, smelly, and hard to sell on. Not everyone wants to get involved in that kind of business.

Anyway I call bullshit.

That's a really stupid phrase BTW.
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August 27, 2011, 07:35:51 PM
 #11

Claiming to have free electricity is about as stupid, I simply thought I'd return the favor.

People have various reasons why they don't wanna quit but and consider the cost of electricity less of an issue for them under their current circumstances. But claiming that electricity access is free is simply lying to oneself. This may be seen as a way to vindicate ones behavior but it doesn't change the facts.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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August 27, 2011, 11:25:31 PM
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According to my rough figuring at the price of electricity in Europe (18 - 40 cents/kWH?) shouldn't there be a lot of European miners turning off their rigs now?

Either you lose money or hope and pray that Bitcoins move back up in price again before too long.

There are essentially two core mining strategies; mine and liquidate or mine and hold.  Everyone has a given price point at which mining becomes "unprofitable", however at that point you have a choice between two options.  If you're only interested in immediate liquidation your only option is to turn off your rig(s) and wait for the price in whatever your currency du jour to go back up.  So at that point, the real question becomes not "is this still profitable", but "what do you believe about bitcoin?"  You either believe it will succeed and the BTC you're mining now at a "loss" will appreciate in value, or that Bitcoin is a fad and is doomed thus you're not willing to take the risk of a mine and hold strategy.

I would expect some miners to get out of the game at these various price points, but there are some who will continue regardless of the price.
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August 28, 2011, 12:37:27 AM
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According to my rough figuring at the price of electricity in Europe (18 - 40 cents/kWH?) shouldn't there be a lot of European miners turning off their rigs now?

Either you lose money or hope and pray that Bitcoins move back up in price again before too long.

There are essentially two core mining strategies; mine and liquidate or mine and hold.  Everyone has a given price point at which mining becomes "unprofitable", however at that point you have a choice between two options.  If you're only interested in immediate liquidation your only option is to turn off your rig(s) and wait for the price in whatever your currency du jour to go back up.  So at that point, the real question becomes not "is this still profitable", but "what do you believe about bitcoin?"  You either believe it will succeed and the BTC you're mining now at a "loss" will appreciate in value, or that Bitcoin is a fad and is doomed thus you're not willing to take the risk of a mine and hold strategy.

I would expect some miners to get out of the game at these various price points, but there are some who will continue regardless of the price.

There's no reason to mine if you're in a loss situation. Might as well just buy what you would spend on electricity investing in bitcoin.
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August 28, 2011, 02:55:37 AM
 #14

And solar power panels are still too expensive their roi is even worse than the mining rigs and I doubt that anyone who writes here and claims free electricity has a high end solar system.

Then you are must not be aware that some countries are sponsoring solar systems with stipends, loans and tax brakes, for example 'green certificates' that pay for each 1k kWh produced and loans at 1.7% that pay back for the entire installation after 5 years. Basicly that means the entire install is paid for with a loan that is paid of with green certificates and that means 20 years garanteed production at EUR 0 cost. Beat that...
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August 28, 2011, 04:58:12 AM
 #15

There's no reason to mine if you're in a loss situation. Might as well just buy what you would spend on electricity investing in bitcoin.

You under estimate many in the distributed computing community such as Folding at Home, World Community Grid, GPUGRID, M@H, and other BOINC projects. Having my grass roots in those myself and many other's that do such projects at their own expense and enjoy hardware in general. There will away's be those of us backing computational power for projects we believe in regardless of monetary gain. In fact I know many who had plenty of empty pcie slots they have now occupied for mining on already very high end system (EVGA SR-2's etc) to off set there cost and expand even further for F@H, WCG etc. Mining is in many cases helping fund individuals efforts to cure disease's.

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August 28, 2011, 08:48:42 AM
 #16

Claiming to have free electricity is about as stupid, I simply thought I'd return the favor.

People have various reasons why they don't wanna quit but and consider the cost of electricity less of an issue for them under their current circumstances. But claiming that electricity access is free is simply lying to oneself. This may be seen as a way to vindicate ones behavior but it doesn't change the facts.

Yes i claim that i have free electricity, and it can be dumb only to those who look in envy.
I also dont have to pay water, coz i have my own well, with pumps so that theres no difference from standard supply.
Acces to internet is also free, and all that from the comfort of my own home.

Enjoy your bills, peon.

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August 28, 2011, 10:54:12 AM
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I don't have free electricity, but I do pay a flat-rate for all I can consume here in Germany Smiley

And yes, it's at my home.

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August 28, 2011, 11:16:56 AM
 #18

And I have a Tesla technology atmospheric ether energy generator  Kiss

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August 28, 2011, 12:52:12 PM
 #19

In Latvia $0.2 kW*h, mining not profitable.

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August 28, 2011, 06:11:08 PM
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There's no reason to mine if you're in a loss situation. Might as well just buy what you would spend on electricity investing in bitcoin.
As there is NO way to get Euros to an exchange site fast enough befor the price potentially bounces and goes back to profitable, you either need to keep a few day's worth of electricity money on an exchange site and monitor this closely (this costs time, and time is money I loose and have to deduct from these earnings!) or just live with occassional 20 cents of loss on a bad day + shrug it off. If you mine at a constant loss (far below profitability) however, buying is really cheaper and you should stop mining.

Just calculate how much a mined bitcoin costs you (all you need is your MH/s speed, current difficulty + the amount of Watts you use) and decide then if mining is worth it.

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