A Chinese look at the situation in China

[toddfletcher]

Interesting as usual, thanks

[zhangweiwu]

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain some fairly complex structures of Chinese market. This is an interesting view which helps me fill in a lot of details. I'm also interested in what kind of people are currently interested in Bitcoin, like T.Stuart was asking?

I will answer that in a separate post. It is a topic of its own, and a bit lengthy. But I may fail it, for I am no longer rich in my time.

It is here: Part 1: Answer to “Who are trading bitcoin in China”  (Read 641 times)

[Equilux]

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain some fairly complex structures of Chinese market. This is an interesting view which helps me fill in a lot of details. I'm also interested in what kind of people are currently interested in Bitcoin, like T.Stuart was asking?

I will answer that in a separate post. It is a topic of its own, and a bit lengthy. But I may fail it, for I am no longer rich in my time.

It is here: Part 1: Answer to “Who are trading bitcoin in China”  (Read 641 times)

Thanks once again, and looking forward to the consecutive parts!

[zhangweiwu]

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain some fairly complex structures of Chinese market. This is an interesting view which helps me fill in a lot of details. I'm also interested in what kind of people are currently interested in Bitcoin, like T.Stuart was asking?

I will answer that in a separate post. It is a topic of its own, and a bit lengthy. But I may fail it, for I am no longer rich in my time.

It is here: Part 1: Answer to “Who are trading bitcoin in China”  (Read 641 times)

Thanks once again, and looking forward to the consecutive parts!

here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=406637.msg4407494

[Lathanium]

That was an eye opening read, thank you very much.  Being in a western culture you don't really get to look at another countries mindset unless you live there for a while.  And I see you've provided more reading for us.  Many thanks

[dedcoin]

would you mind sharing with us an update of the situation. espcially with the litecoins and the non-enforced ban etc.
What's the general feeling in China now?

[zhangweiwu]

would you mind sharing with us an update of the situation. espcially with the litecoins and the non-enforced ban etc.
What's the general feeling in China now?

A recent newspaper article laments the death of bitcoin, review how it made many rich and more fell. It states, although the bitcoin movement is officially dead, it has been a legacy of wealth. We have been inebriated in the dream of wealth and prosperity, and wake up too late. In the end, it is being said, lamenting spilt milk profits little, we should draw lessons from it. It was written in a sad tone, unlikely governmental propaganda.

But such articles perhaps doesn't have much influnece, because only the weathered has been trading since the government 15th Dec ban. For your information, nobody is discussing bitcoin in any of the common used-to-be-bitcoin QQ group, nobody, . Litecoin is mostly discussed, among many altcoins, some ironically named, e.g. "Dream Coin", others like "Use Horse Coin in the Horse Year" - I don't know how they are going to advertise if they survive past Year of Horse.

To know the thinking of the weathered, there is a coterie QQ group used to offer me sentiments. Recently they deleted me out without a word, and email to group master pleading help unrepied. I'll have to go social, face-to-face, visiting the nearest bitcoin meeting by traveling a few hundred miles, by this weekend (I live in the remote city of Lanzhou now). The only QQ group that still discuss Bitcoin is this coterie group. (Starting from 2011, I am weathered, except having not learned from it, and lost all early investments to the downfall of Intersango and MtGox).

One thing you can be sure, as it been tested with time: we have few idealists in China, to support bitcoin as an idea that can make the world a better one. We have few idealists for any ideas since culture revolution and the 89' Tiananmen square. Not even the China Dream campaign represent any idealism more than an anodyne. The few idealists in existance are not supported by the society in whole, and even among them there seems to be more communism idealists. In fact, under the zeitgeist the word idealism translated directly meant something different than we hitherto discussed: it (为理想奋斗) means being confident that you can be wealthy against all odds = willing to invest labour and is risk-seeking, and that kind of "idealists" we have lots. This offers you a backdrop for your speculative thinking. That is, if the world really scraps bitcoin, we won't be there to keep the tide.

[waxwing]

would you mind sharing with us an update of the situation. espcially with the litecoins and the non-enforced ban etc.
What's the general feeling in China now?

A recent newspaper article laments the death of bitcoin, review how it made many rich and more fell. It states, although the bitcoin movement is officially dead, it has been a legacy of wealth. We have been inebriated in the dream of wealth and prosperity, and wake up too late. In the end, it is being said, lamenting spilt milk profits little, we should draw lessons from it. It was written in a sad tone, unlikely governmental propaganda.

But such articles perhaps doesn't have much influnece, because only the weathered has been trading since the government 15th Dec ban. For your information, nobody is discussing bitcoin in any of the common used-to-be-bitcoin QQ group, nobody, . Litecoin is mostly discussed, among many altcoins, some ironically named, e.g. "Dream Coin", others like "Use Horse Coin in the Horse Year" - I don't know how they are going to advertise if they survive past Year of Horse.

To know the thinking of the weathered, there is a coterie QQ group used to offer me sentiments. Recently they deleted me out without a word, and email to group master pleading help unrepied. I'll have to go social, face-to-face, visiting the nearest bitcoin meeting by traveling a few hundred miles, by this weekend (I live in the remote city of Lanzhou now). The only QQ group that still discuss Bitcoin is this coterie group. (Starting from 2011, I am weathered, except having not learned from it, and lost all early investments to the downfall of Intersango and MtGox).

One thing you can be sure, as it been tested with time: we have few idealists in China, to support bitcoin as an idea that can make the world a better one. We have few idealists for any ideas since culture revolution and the 89' Tiananmen square. Not even the China Dream campaign represent any idealism more than an anodyne. The few idealists in existance are not supported by the society in whole, and even among them there seems to be more communism idealists. In fact, under the zeitgeist the word idealism translated directly meant something different than we hitherto discussed: it (为理想奋斗) means being confident that you can be wealthy against all odds = willing to invest labour and is risk-seeking, and that kind of "idealists" we have lots. This offers you a backdrop for your speculative thinking. That is, if the world really scraps bitcoin, we won't be there to keep the tide.

zhangweiwu,
Just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate both the information in and the sentiments of this post.

[pungopete468]

It's not surprising that China banned Bitcoin just now.

China is hurting economically; the value of your currency is under a tremendous stress. The recent interest default, the bank runs, now banning Bitcoin.

I think it was a precautionary measure taken to prevent capital flight.

Like you said, the Chinese regard loyalty above profit, unfortunately the rest of the world is intertwined in your currency. The rest of the world does not share the loyalty.

I believe China is uncertain about their ability to prevent an economic collapse where international investment retracts leaving China hyper inflated and stranded. China knows that the collapse wouldn't be a result of the Chinese people but rather international investors, they only made capital flight more difficult for Chinese people.

They banned Bitcoin simply because they don't want the people to have the ability to flee should the value of the yuan collapse.

[Equilux]

Two things may happen in 2014:

1. Firmly believing that the government have control, China maintains low price and become a bitccoin export country, and receive moderate media coverage. Bitcoin is thus allowed to live.
2. The spikes in global market calls again the passion in China. And when our spirite of gambling is lit up, anoher spike in China and warm media coverage in China will lead a harsher ban from the government, probably force bitcoin into black market.

It is possible 2 happens after 1.

I was wrong.

This is an unexpected event. Well, the hash ban on bitcoin is an event too easy to speculate, but the timing is totally unexpected to me. I was waiting for a spike for China to take action. My position wasn't well protected.

Are you sure this time the ban is for real? Last thing I read the Chinese exchange operators had not even been informed.

[zhangweiwu]

Are you sure this time the ban is for real? Last thing I read the Chinese exchange operators had not even been informed.

I explained why this ban is real, in my other post:

the China PBOC event explained
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=540358.20

Now it is revealed true.

[Siegfried]

It's not surprising that China banned Bitcoin just now.

China is hurting economically; the value of your currency is under a tremendous stress. The recent interest default, the bank runs, now banning Bitcoin.

I think it was a precautionary measure taken to prevent capital flight.

Like you said, the Chinese regard loyalty above profit, unfortunately the rest of the world is intertwined in your currency. The rest of the world does not share the loyalty.

I believe China is uncertain about their ability to prevent an economic collapse where international investment retracts leaving China hyper inflated and stranded. China knows that the collapse wouldn't be a result of the Chinese people but rather international investors, they only made capital flight more difficult for Chinese people.

They banned Bitcoin simply because they don't want the people to have the ability to flee should the value of the yuan collapse.

What are your post-China ban Bitcoin plans?

[zhangweiwu]

They banned Bitcoin simply because they don't want the people to have the ability to flee should the value of the yuan collapse.

Yes, it is an act in prevention, not in reaction, and a few other reasons (that I state below). It is not for the on-going capital fleet which many others guess. Bitcoin is too small for PBOC to act for capital fleet. As I mentioned in the past, PBOC has reserve to buy up market cap of Bitcoin half a million times. To get you a picture, bitcoin to PBOC is like an ordinary citizen to the Mexco city. PBOC is facing problems many times the scale of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is harmless.

The motiviation is 1) maintain authority of CNY; 2) maintain controll over Internat Finance (under competition of Alibaba's YU'E BAO) and 3) perhaps partly triggered by all major exchange's inclusion of LTC, which makes the whole crypto currency thing look like child's play to PBOC - and PBOC should maintain its image by protecting people from 吸储 (evil guys taking in people's rainy day money).

You would think the order is:
1) they ignore you
2) they laugh at you
3) they fight you (= ban you)
4) you win

The order in China should be:
1) they ignore you
2) they ban you, and left you for dead (ban is not a fight, it is punishment/sentence, you should be dead)
3) they fight you (different from ban, a fight is usually signalled by state-own media's opinion maniuplation)
4) you are really dead (unless a new tech removes the need of centralized exchanges)
5) China goverment dead -> this is the longest phase, measured in decades
6) you are revived when others thrived

Yes, I mean that bitcoin outlives this government.

[bclcjunkie]

you kinda contradict yourself and i'm pretty positive that you have your own agenda by spreading "seemingly informative articles" about bitcoin situation in china... for certain things you don't need to be in china to understand what it's like in china, you can pretty much get an idea of what's going on if you know your way around...
 in your original post you mentioned 0 population traded bitcoins and now you think government is trying to maintain its image by saving its citizens from some sort of evil get quick rich scheme...  if there are only bunch of traders why would pboc be concerned at all? are there fly by night shops promoting high returns on bitcoins? any articles of citizens who became victims of this "evil pyramid scheme" to me if pboc was determined to go against bitcoin that's where it would've started...
 ok let's assume there was population involved do you really think by just banning bitcoin it can save its citizens from all that "evil pyramid scheme"? if it were really concerned first thing it should do is ban its own citizens from gambling overseas period, gambling causes more social problems than investing in bitcoins and you know very well gambling is in their blood... but the same pboc that's trying to act noble closes its one eye when its citizens still can bypass capital controls by using unionpay to feed their gambling habits in macau....
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/12/uk-china-unionpay-special-report-idUKBREA2B00B20140312

 as you say bitcoin is a small fly to pboc but if it were why stir up the whole ban fud? now if we ever come to a point where pboc will decide to move against bitcoin it is going to be for the same reason it did to limit QQcoin from trading virtual currencies into fiat... source: http://www.informationweek.com/e-commerce/china-limits-use-of-virtual-currency/d/d-id/1080926

imho there are far more serious issues for your government to deal with, i'll just list the most serious ones:

tax evasion
- http://money.cnn.com/2014/02/09/news/economy/china-tax/

corrupted politburo
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2014/04/how-far-will-chinas-anti-corruption-fifteen-billion-dollar-purge-go.html

property bubble that PBOC itself created which is now bursting (this one is a serious shitstorm)
http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion/2014-02/26/content_17305583.htm

FED's QE tapering which china says is not really concerned about but in reality they are... look at what's happening now..

http://www.scmp.com/business/economy/article/1386189/feds-qe-taper-risks-slowing-chinese-reforms
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/19/hongkong-property-chinese-idUSL3N0MG1B220140319

now capital flight is just another bs, pboc is smart enough to just invalidate and purge it from its system... yuan stability? then why let it trade offshore? actually yuan devaluation is just another tactic in currency war handbook... it's very much welcome in china because it helps maintain its export competitiveness... i personally think if pboc really moves against bitcoin then it means it's going to acknowledge that it's not that harmless as you say it is, that means deep down there it's raising eyebrows... in that case trust me it won't need to wait for imaginary April 15 or April 17, it will simply be like SWAT team all over the exchange offices... also if you look at those dumps don't assume someone is losing his shirt in china, it's just same bunch of traders taking money from right pocket and putting it in their left pocket, but the goal which is illusion has been achieved... it's going to be same bunch of people that will move the market in china anyway they want...

PS. honestly i don't really care how this fud turns out in china, i'm all in and pretty comfortable with it, in fact i would've bought more if i had the opportunity... also i can't thank enough all those fudsters and trolls who keep spreading fear because a month ago i thought i wouldn't be able to buy at these prices...

They banned Bitcoin simply because they don't want the people to have the ability to flee should the value of the yuan collapse.

Yes, it is an act in prevention, not in reaction, and a few other reasons (that I state below). It is not for the on-going capital fleet which many others guess. Bitcoin is too small for PBOC to act for capital fleet. As I mentioned in the past, PBOC has reserve to buy up market cap of Bitcoin half a million times. To get you a picture, bitcoin to PBOC is like an ordinary citizen to the Mexco city. PBOC is facing problems many times the scale of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is harmless.

The motiviation is 1) maintain authority of CNY; 2) maintain controll over Internat Finance (under competition of Alibaba's YU'E BAO) and 3) perhaps partly triggered by all major exchange's inclusion of LTC, which makes the whole crypto currency thing look like child's play to PBOC - and PBOC should maintain its image by protecting people from 吸储 (evil guys taking in people's rainy day money).

You would think the order is:
1) they ignore you
2) they laugh at you
3) they fight you (= ban you)
4) you win

The order in China should be:
1) they ignore you
2) they ban you, and left you for dead (ban is not a fight, it is punishment/sentence, you should be dead)
3) they fight you (different from ban, a fight is usually signalled by state-own media's opinion maniuplation)
4) you are really dead (unless a new tech removes the need of centralized exchanges)
5) China goverment dead -> this is the longest phase, measured in decades
6) you are revived when others thrived

Yes, I mean that bitcoin outlives this government.

[YipYip]

here is an update to the situation in china

ching chong ding dong ..crsipy fried chicken and duck sauce ...dim sims with special fried rice and a pork bun

ning nong ching chong and wing wong and his 5 brothers

It all makes sense 

[ampere9765]

here is an update to the situation in china

ching chong ding dong ..crsipy fried chicken and duck sauce ...dim sims with special fried rice and a pork bun

ning nong ching chong and wing wong and his 5 brothers

It all makes sense 

thanks jackass

[YipYip]

here is an update to the situation in china

ching chong ding dong ..crsipy fried chicken and duck sauce ...dim sims with special fried rice and a pork bun

ning nong ching chong and wing wong and his 5 brothers

It all makes sense 

thanks jackass

free prawn crackers with delivery ?

[atp1916]

would you mind sharing with us an update of the situation. espcially with the litecoins and the non-enforced ban etc.
What's the general feeling in China now?

<snip>

One thing you can be sure, as it been tested with time: we have few idealists in China, to support bitcoin as an idea that can make the world a better one. We have few idealists for any ideas since culture revolution and the 89' Tiananmen square. Not even the China Dream campaign represent any idealism more than an anodyne. The few idealists in existance are not supported by the society in whole, and even among them there seems to be more communism idealists. In fact, under the zeitgeist the word idealism translated directly meant something different than we hitherto discussed: it (为理想奋斗) means being confident that you can be wealthy against all odds = willing to invest labour and is risk-seeking, and that kind of "idealists" we have lots. This offers you a backdrop for your speculative thinking. That is, if the world really scraps bitcoin, we won't be there to keep the tide.

One day your people will wake up and take that God-given right to liberty of person and freedom of decision.  

That generation of patriots did it in the US many years ago, and you will do it too.

[hdbuck]

would you mind sharing with us an update of the situation. espcially with the litecoins and the non-enforced ban etc.
What's the general feeling in China now?

<snip>

One thing you can be sure, as it been tested with time: we have few idealists in China, to support bitcoin as an idea that can make the world a better one. We have few idealists for any ideas since culture revolution and the 89' Tiananmen square. Not even the China Dream campaign represent any idealism more than an anodyne. The few idealists in existance are not supported by the society in whole, and even among them there seems to be more communism idealists. In fact, under the zeitgeist the word idealism translated directly meant something different than we hitherto discussed: it (为理想奋斗) means being confident that you can be wealthy against all odds = willing to invest labour and is risk-seeking, and that kind of "idealists" we have lots. This offers you a backdrop for your speculative thinking. That is, if the world really scraps bitcoin, we won't be there to keep the tide.

One day your people will wake up and take that God-given right to liberty of person and freedom of decision. 

That generation of patriots did it in the US many years ago, and you will do it too.

lmao US are everything but free. fools.

[Asrael999]

Given the anti-corruption drive that the new Chinese leadership embarked on last year is it not likely that certain more tech savvy, slightly misinformed, but entirely corrupt individuals within the People's Republic thought that they could use bitcoin as a way to move their wealth to places that the Chinese authorities would be unable to trace them? (think bitcoin is anonymous - misinformed)
This might explain the desperate acquisition of coins on Chinese Exchanges in the last month or two of 2013 as well as the fact that the recycling of these coins onto western exchanges has depressed the price since. (by this I mean down to the 800/600 area.)
By this stage I would expect that these individuals are already out of bitcoin and in USD or EUR in bank accounts all over the world.
When the Chinese leadership officials caught on to the wheeze, it would be an obvious and simple step for them to stamp on it, hard, this has forced others in China who were involved for less nefarious reasons to exit the market or scale back their investments - driving us to this $400 area.

It may also explain why exchanges are being targeted piecemeal - those more guilty (in the eyes of the leadership), or least protected politically - are punished/closed/impacted first with others later or to a lesser extent.