For Individuals looking to get into the Mining Game in 2014, please read this!

[Sitarow]

weird...I just started mining 3 weeks ago and have nearly broke even.  I should see profits next week.  How is mining not profitable???

Thus far with the increase in value of the coins one can make money.

However this game is high risk and hopefully high reward.

[TheBatIsBack]

Thanks for the info.

[Dafar]

OP, I did some research on mining and I was pretty much ready to jump into it but reading your post has discouraged me (which kinda sucks because I thought I finally had a bright future). Of course I wouldn't get into BTC mining but I thought ALT coin mining still had some juice left in it.


I was thinking of building a $2,000 rig, with 3 - R9 290, Radeon graphics cards, which would hash at about 2,500 khash/s. It would mine about .6 LTC per day at current difficulty. If I mined Worldcoin, I would have around 3,600 coins after 3 months. Each coin is now worth about 40 cents.... But if Worldcoin increases in value to $3.00 per coin I would make a good profit


Another reason I wanted to mine is because I wouldn't have to worry about electricity (I have permission to leave the rig running in my office building).


So please tell me if my logic is flawed. I don't quite understand how fast difficulty rises and how that will change the amount of returns I can expect to get. As far as I was aware GPU mining for Scrypt coins can still be profitable for the average joe....... but am I underestimating how early ASIC for scrypt mining will be available, or how the rising difficulty is about to push GPU miners out of the game?

[2tights]

OP, I did some research on mining and I was pretty much ready to jump into it but reading your post has discouraged me (which kinda sucks because I thought I finally had a bright future). Of course I wouldn't get into BTC mining but I thought ALT coin mining still had some juice left in it.


I was thinking of building a $2,000 rig, with 3 - R9 290, Radeon graphics cards, which would hash at about 2,500 khash/s. It would mine about .6 LTC per day at current difficulty. If I mined Worldcoin, I would have around 3,600 coins after 3 months. Each coin is now worth about 40 cents.... But if Worldcoin increases in value to $3.00 per coin I would make a good profit


Another reason I wanted to mine is because I wouldn't have to worry about electricity (I have permission to leave the rig running in my office building).


So please tell me if my logic is flawed. I don't quite understand how fast difficulty rises and how that will change the amount of returns I can expect to get. As far as I was aware GPU mining for Scrypt coins can still be profitable for the average joe....... but am I underestimating how early ASIC for scrypt mining will be available, or how the rising difficulty is about to push GPU miners out of the game?

Dude, if you are feeling lucky go for it. Nobody can know what will happen, but people keep talking like they're able to tell you what the future holds. They don't. Do what you think it best, nothing else.

[Dafar]

Dude, if you are feeling lucky go for it. Nobody can know what will happen, but people keep talking like they're able to tell you what the future holds. They don't. Do what you think it best, nothing else.

So no one knows if ASIC for scrypt mining is coming out soon? or if ASIC for scrypt will ruin mining for all other alts too? I'm only asking here because I don't know anything about mining

[okimzti]

weird...I just started mining 3 weeks ago and have nearly broke even.  I should see profits next week.  How is mining not profitable???

It's certainly possible to make a profit if you can buy the equipment cheap enough, though breaking even in 3 weeks is very unusual. Can you give us your numbers? How much did your equipment cost in BTC? When did you start mining? How much have you mined in BTC?

Agreed.  My case is probably not the norm.  And I am not making tons of cash, but a daily residual income that will surely add up to almost a mortgage payment each month.  I should also disclaim it will be about 4 full weeks of mining for my break even point, give or take a few days.

My initial investment was $1300 cash and yielded about 2.2Mhash, also disclaiming that I saved myself about $200 on hardware from existing parts I have collected over the years.

I initially was pool mining "the most profitable" coins and made a nice little chunk with doge, which definitely helped knock out some of my costs, but I also spent a day or two mining junk coins as well.  Since then I have switched to middlecoin as I find the btc payout handy, saves me from exchanging and messing with all of that.  This also makes my operation hands free, so I do absolutely nothing each day to earn money (your time is money imo, and if you spend hours upon hours "making money" you are really costing yourself the most important asset in life, time).

I have also found that sourcing hardware is a bit easier when you pay in btc over fiat these past few weeks as the mainstream market has dried up.  I have found ways to save 40% off (the old, non inflated prices) on hardware using btc and a little ingenuity.

I will also say that I am a computer guru, with decades of experience under my belt with hardware, software and the internet.  So configuring rock solid linux boxes to mine was easy for me.  I find things are much more stable on linux with cgminer rather than windows, and recommend anyone with a little computer knowledge to go the linux route.  There are plenty of guides out there to setting up a system from scratch to mine under linux and the stability you get over windows is priceless.  I run my miner in a screen and can attach to it from an ssh session at any time.  The machines run headless in my cold basement.  My breaker box is also near by for when/if I need to add more circuits down there, it will be a snap.

I will also say, the most important thing to my success so far with mining, is my research.  I spent many hours up front reading and understand all the different aspects of mining.  The difference between scrypt & sha-256.  The difference between mining software.  Why --scrypt not work on the latest version of cgminer.  And every other pitfall there is to getting up and running in the "Mining Game".  I still learn daily, and assume that trend will continue, so I try to keep an open mind.

[phazon307]

SO what your saying is I should not mine SHA256 and just mine script coins sell em high then buy em low rinse repeat? Script mining is still very profitable.

[okimzti]

SO what your saying is I should not mine SHA256 and just mine script coins sell em high then buy em low rinse repeat? Script mining is still very profitable.

I guess it depends on what hardware you can get access to and for how much.  Right now the big thing seems to be hardware availability and pricing to determine ones success in mining.

[pjviitas]

Look everyone...this is so much FUD.

At the end of the day there needs to be miners and they need to be distributed...centralized mining is not a solution.

With that being said, the reason why people mine is completely inconsequential since someone has to do it.

Nuff sed.

[frankenmint]

Look everyone...this is so much FUD.

At the end of the day there needs to be miners and they need to be distributed...centralized mining is not a solution.

With that being said, the reason why people mine is completely inconsequential since someone has to do it.

Nuff sed.

Buy hardware secondhand if possible because it will likely not be price gouged.  Everyone who gets this far who is still a newbie - please understand...ALL MINERS (SCRYPT/ASIC/SCRYPTJANE/BLAKE256) HAVE A COMMON INTEREST TO TELL YOU MINING IS NEVER PROFITABLE.  Miner's have an incentive to tell everyone that it wont work so that they can stave off difficulty increases for at least a little longer.  The idea is that as more people mine, the same amount of coins are released so as more people break into mining they all have to share from this same released cache of coins.

The OP has refused to tell you A) only buy in Fiat, B) once you've made how much you could have earned by just buying it, you now have essentially earned both your investment AND hardware that can continue to mine sha or scrypt. 

As BTC price increases, it also pushes out the mining profitability threshold.

If you followed people's advice last august about how mining isn't worth it because XYZ are coming online with a ton of additional hashpower - you were suckered into NOT buying hardware because 3/4th of XYZ still never got delivered - hashfast, cointerra, and bitmine coincraft.

OP - Just curious, what is your exact definition of "all pro, neck deep"  100 GH?  1TH??? 

Also, you didn't mention the idea of "equilibrium" - By that I mean, eventually other profitable coins come around that are sha variants and the hashrate will chase profitability - if I thought I was ever mining at a loss, I'll be damn sure to switch to something that isnt.

Case and point - last month I spent a day on betacoin and gained .7 BTC that day instead of the expected .3 with my hardware - so yeap...the OP is absolutely correct, if an only if this was a perfect square world with consistent certainty.

OP should instead state - DONT BUY BTC GEAR with BTC UNLESS YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN IT BREAKS EVEN IN 60 days or so - its too wildly variable to guess difficulty due to the late nature of the expected hash-rate that is being promised above - we've seen pics of HF so no doubt that's real, we've seen KNC deliver so no doubt they are going to deliver. 

[graphicsdump]

weird...I just started mining 3 weeks ago and have nearly broke even.  I should see profits next week.  How is mining not profitable???

It's profitable now, at least for the next 4+ months...after that, difficulty gets so high that your profit is in the negative.

As an example, check out this Mining Payout Schedule (lower right) for a 50 GH/s Butterfly Labs miner: http://thegenesisblock.com/mining/a/899aa50cdb

In May, profits are in the negative.

For kicks, on the left side, select any hardware you'd like...or punch in your own numbers, and see what the results will be in the profits column.

Regardless of how accurate this is, it shows the detrimental affect difficulty has on mining.

[frankenmint]

weird...I just started mining 3 weeks ago and have nearly broke even.  I should see profits next week.  How is mining not profitable???

It's profitable now, at least for the next 4+ months...after that, difficulty gets so high that your profit is in the negative.

As an example, check out this Mining Payout Schedule (lower right) for a 50 GH/s Butterfly Labs miner: http://thegenesisblock.com/mining/a/899aa50cdb

In May, profits are in the negative.

For kicks, on the left side, select any hardware you'd like...or punch in your own numbers, and see what the results will be in the profits column.

Regardless of how accurate this is, it shows the detrimental affect difficulty has on mining.

Not Detrimental - Necessary.  I like the fact that difficulty allows cryptocoins to stretch out to be mined for longer periods of time.  If all btcs were mined they would be likely  worthless - no one would bother mining and transactions wouldn't happen because the fees structure is designed to be an incentive when btc becomes mainstream and is much much more universally accepted like visa/mc/amex

[Killua]

The thing I find a problem with this is it's simply false. It's all about what you decide to do with the coinage that you mine. If you think profit isn't profit no matter the size of profit than you are dead wrong. For example if I said I would give you a free penny would you take it or think it's freaking one cent what good will it do me? Now take that penny of profit and 8 million people all giving you a free penny now those pennies add up. It's all about what you decide to do with the currency you gain from mining. If you want to invest into buying crypto currency because you think the price of it is going to go high at a certain point you have a much better shot at mining and saving the coins from mining it as long as you are mining above the cost of electricity because you are going to be getting more than your investment back and can continue to get a few. If you want to start a few business ventures it would be safe to mine a bit or have continual mining operation of profit to covers potential losses in the early goings of a business venture of crypto. So calling mining dead is really the same thing as saying that crypto currency is dying out. How is it worth anything to begin with? You need mining to keep it active as they have to complete the answer of the code for every transaction of that particular crypto coin. So the more any currency is used the more chances if you are mining that currency to complete that transaction and score a few coins. So if you don't think mining is a sound investment than it would be the same as saying the entire system is a bad idea. You have to know that it isn't dead and I'll prove it. You said you don't care if you are losing money because you care about the technology and you would rather lose money than let certain companies or pool get it. If that's true than you are either A) stupid or B) lying. If you have a family owned pizza parlor in small town but some big conglomerate pizza company comes in and making a pizza at $3.12 when it takes $3.11 to make a pizza at the cost of toppings, oven, and employee so you drop your price to $3.10 and lose money everytime someone orders something because you are going to show them by going broke? You have a dog but there is a new landlord and in order to keep your dog you have to pay an extra $500 a month and let's say only have an additional $300 a month with your current expenses which is $200 less and you checked and there are no additional places. Are you going to go in debt $200 every month until your kicked out or going to find a good home for your dog? You're going to find a good home right? Pizza scenario you're going to hope the community loves you and spends a bit more or close up shop before forced to file bankruptcy right? So which is it do you know there is value there and lying about the there not being value there or are you stupid and going to lose money knowing you are losing it?

[timk225]

Killua - you talk too much.  Learn to paragraph!

If there were no coins to mine and no profit to gain, no one would let their computers run to "secure the network" with no profit to be made.  Coins would then die out.  Then onto new coins with more profits to be made!

[samcornwell]

I wish I'd read this before I bought two miners yesterday.

But alas, I'm $2100 poorer and 76Gh/s quicker. The mining calculator I was using suggests I should break even within 3 months. After that I will still own two miners which can be used for other SHA-256 currencies or simply be sold on.

[2tights]

I wish I'd read this before I bought two miners yesterday.

But alas, I'm $2100 poorer and 76Gh/s quicker. The mining calculator I was using suggests I should break even within 3 months. After that I will still own two miners which can be used for other SHA-256 currencies or simply be sold on.

This is a good idea, and it's pretty much the same recipe I plan to follow.

[whtchocla7e]

These dumb calculators do no predict the future. Say goodbye to your money.

But remember, mining is good for the network even if you don't make any profit yourself so keep on mining.

[2tights]

I wish I'd read this before I bought two miners yesterday.

But alas, I'm $2100 poorer and 76Gh/s quicker. The mining calculator I was using suggests I should break even within 3 months. After that I will still own two miners which can be used for other SHA-256 currencies or simply be sold on.

You should have just bought the bitcoins directly. If you start mining today, there is a small chance you will show a profit, but most likely you are going to get back maybe half your investment (in BTC).

You need to use a different mining calculator. Yours is lying to you. Try this one: http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/

From what I can tell, this calc is not much different than any other (but, I agree that it is a good one). I think people overemphasize the importance of these calculations. I understand that mining is highly competitive, and it seems to me like a lot of people try to discourage people from entering the mining game. I think that's healthy and good for people to show concern for others well being, but it does seem like people are pushing people away for a multitude of reasons. I believe greed is one of the driving factors for some, so it's good to be aware of this.

Also, in regard to those calculations: Why should it be that they are treated with so much importance? They're only a glimpse at what might transpire. There are many, many factors which can, and certainly will, change as things develop. The most important of these factors, in my opinion, is how the individual conducts their mining.

Let me give you an example:

Case A is a person who has invested borrowed money, and wishes to recover that "investment" (speculation, gamble) ASAP.
this person will more likely make emotional decisions which do not create an advantage. They'll likely sell their Bitcoin immediately, ensuring they won't take advantage of increasing value. In these cases, I believe it will be difficult for those people to get positive ROI.

Case B is a person who has speculated with their own money for which they have either no, or a very long, time frame for recovery. These people are able to balance risk better as well as HODL, or speculate, as value changes ensuring a better return.

Case C is a person who has no time frame for ROI. This is, I believe, the best situation to be in. They can sit on their bitcoin for 5 years if they want for when they're worth 50k USD, or more! Or less... but these individuals are in the mining game as a hobby, not an investment, but will actually have the best possibility to make some money.

Also, don't forget that, as long as SHA256 mining is alive, these ASIC rigs will retain or increase in value. Once profitability is too low, there is a healthy aftermarket for them.

[2tights]

I am not a miner. I have mined before, but now it is very difficult to make a profit (mining bitcoins). The only benefit I get these posts is knowing that I am doing people a favor. All I'm trying to say is that if you are getting into mining in order to make money, then you will fail if you don't carefully consider the the economics of mining and the factors that determine profitability.

The sad fact is that many people are investing a lot of money and time into mining without any idea if they will actually make a profit. I doubt any of them will.

Let's do an example. You decide to by an AntMiner off Amazon for $65 (0.073 BTC). If you overclock it you can get 2.2 GH/s out of it. Let's see what it will earn over the next 6 months assuming that the difficulty increases 20% each time.

Difficulty Period	Difficulty	Revenue (BTC)	Total Revenue (BTC)
now	1,789,546,951	0.00865555	0.00865555
1/24/2014	2,147,456,341	0.00721296	0.01586852
2/5/2014	2,576,947,609	0.00601080	0.02187932
2/17/2014	3,092,337,131	0.00500900	0.02688832
2/28/2014	3,710,804,558	0.00417417	0.03106249
3/12/2014	4,452,965,469	0.00347847	0.03454096
3/24/2014	5,343,558,563	0.00289873	0.03743969
4/4/2014	6,412,270,276	0.00241561	0.03985529
4/16/2014	7,694,724,331	0.00201301	0.04186830
4/28/2014	9,233,669,197	0.00167750	0.04354580
5/9/2014	11,080,403,036	0.00139792	0.04494372
5/21/2014	13,296,483,643	0.00116493	0.04610866

As you can see, the overclocked AntMiner will not break even after even 6 months. In fact it will never break even.

Also, please note that the 20% increases are conservative. The actual increases will probably be much higher and the revenue will be lower.

Blah blah blah, over and over with these speculations and crystal ball forecasts.  You may end up being right, but nobody knows.

Who are you arguing with, anyway? I love how you say things like , "in fact" or "The actual blah will probably , blah blah" Do you read what you're writing? State your thesis and be done with, jesus. We get it, you believe something will be a certain way. Great. We've all taken note of your position, the forums have archived your contributions.

We've already established that everything is speculation, and I can't see anything new being added to the discussion.

You see a sad situation, I see enormous potential for the grand scale of of participation that is happening now.

[pjviitas]

I am not a miner. I have mined before, but now it is very difficult to make a profit (mining bitcoins). The only benefit I get these posts is knowing that I am doing people a favor. All I'm trying to say is that if you are getting into mining in order to make money, then you will fail if you don't carefully consider the the economics of mining and the factors that determine profitability.

The sad fact is that many people are investing a lot of money and time into mining without any idea if they will actually make a profit. I doubt any of them will.

Let's do an example. You decide to by an AntMiner off Amazon for $65 (0.073 BTC). If you overclock it you can get 2.2 GH/s out of it. Let's see what it will earn over the next 6 months assuming that the difficulty increases 20% each time.

Difficulty Period	Difficulty	Revenue (BTC)	Total Revenue (BTC)
now	1,789,546,951	0.00865555	0.00865555
1/24/2014	2,147,456,341	0.00721296	0.01586852
2/5/2014	2,576,947,609	0.00601080	0.02187932
2/17/2014	3,092,337,131	0.00500900	0.02688832
2/28/2014	3,710,804,558	0.00417417	0.03106249
3/12/2014	4,452,965,469	0.00347847	0.03454096
3/24/2014	5,343,558,563	0.00289873	0.03743969
4/4/2014	6,412,270,276	0.00241561	0.03985529
4/16/2014	7,694,724,331	0.00201301	0.04186830
4/28/2014	9,233,669,197	0.00167750	0.04354580
5/9/2014	11,080,403,036	0.00139792	0.04494372
5/21/2014	13,296,483,643	0.00116493	0.04610866

As you can see, the overclocked AntMiner will not break even after even 6 months. In fact it will never break even.

Also, please note that the 20% increases are conservative. The actual increases will probably be much higher and the revenue will be lower.

Who are you shilling for anyway?  The big centralized mining shops?  Just so you know they are not the answer.

So why else are you badmouthing miners then?  Because your just looking for someone to &%^$ on?  Well move on we have had enough of this FUD already.

If your going to hate on miners at least go do it in the speculation subforum or something...I be there are a ton of people over there who would love to hear what you have to say.