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Author Topic: How to make sure Bitcoin will never be banned by governments!  (Read 7003 times)
BitPay Business Solutions
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September 01, 2011, 01:25:58 PM
 #61

We have solved the escrow problem.  There is no longer a need for any third-party to accumulate donations.

https://bit-pay.com/forCharities.html

The charity can now have an account with Bit-pay and accept the bitcoins directly. 

We immediately convert these to US Dollars, which clearly establishes their value, and then we electronically transfer the dollars by ACH directly to the charity's bank account.


BitPay : The World Leader in Bitcoin Business Solutions

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Does your website accept bitcoins?
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The_Duke
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September 01, 2011, 01:32:10 PM
 #62


We immediately convert these to US Dollars, which clearly establishes their value



Acknowledgement that bitcoin has no (clear) value. Love it.

NOT a member of the so called ''Bitcoin Foundation''. Choose Independence!

Donate to the BitKitty Foundation instead! -> 1Fd4yLneGmxRHnPi6WCMC2hAMzaWvDePF9 <-
BitPay Business Solutions
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September 01, 2011, 01:35:37 PM
 #63

By the way Bit-pay folks, I would like to encourage you to post a site or at least a forum post of the charities who sign on with you to accept cryptocurrency payment, I am sure many would like to see as these get added so that they can support charities that agree with their ideals and favored choice of currency :-D

Great idea, I've already started a forum post with the announcement, and will probably make another one with a list of the accepting locations.

It can't hurt for everyone to talk to any charities they know, tell them you want to make a donation but only if they accept bitcoins.  We do everything for them for free, so there is no risk or cost to the charity.


BitPay : The World Leader in Bitcoin Business Solutions

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MagicalTux
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September 01, 2011, 01:52:24 PM
 #64

Our US lawyers have confirmed that at this point it is not legal for an organization to accept donations in bitcoins.

They have hope this situation can be resolved, but in the meantime, in the USA, accepting bitcoin donations puts the organization at risk.

Jered Kenna (TradeHill)
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September 01, 2011, 02:02:52 PM
 #65

Our US lawyers have confirmed that at this point it is not legal for an organization to accept donations in bitcoins.

They have hope this situation can be resolved, but in the meantime, in the USA, accepting bitcoin donations puts the organization at risk.

What is that based on? If it's illegal to accept it for a donation then by that logic I don't see how you could accept it as payment either.

Not trying to argue just like to know what legal precedent they based it on.

Jered

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September 01, 2011, 02:03:46 PM
 #66

Our US lawyers have confirmed that at this point it is not legal for an organization to accept donations in bitcoins.

They have hope this situation can be resolved, but in the meantime, in the USA, accepting bitcoin donations puts the organization at risk.

Does that include shops ?

The_Duke
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September 01, 2011, 02:04:15 PM
 #67

Our US lawyers have confirmed that at this point it is not legal for an organization to accept donations in bitcoins.

They have hope this situation can be resolved, but in the meantime, in the USA, accepting bitcoin donations puts the organization at risk.

What is that based on? If it's illegal to accept it for a donation then by that logic I don't see how you could accept it as payment.

This. But lets be honest, didn't we already know that? Or have you seen any tax papers that have a section to declare your bitcoin income?

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Donate to the BitKitty Foundation instead! -> 1Fd4yLneGmxRHnPi6WCMC2hAMzaWvDePF9 <-
Steve
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September 01, 2011, 02:05:03 PM
 #68

Our US lawyers have confirmed that at this point it is not legal for an organization to accept donations in bitcoins.

They have hope this situation can be resolved, but in the meantime, in the USA, accepting bitcoin donations puts the organization at risk.
Citation please.  My family business is tax preparation.  Both my mother and sister are IRS enrolled agents and represent individuals and organizations before the IRS.  I have consulted them on the matter and according to them, there is absolutely no issue with a charity accepting donations in bitcoin.

(gasteve on IRC) Does your website accept cash? https://bitpay.com
Jered Kenna (TradeHill)
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September 01, 2011, 02:07:50 PM
 #69

Our US lawyers have confirmed that at this point it is not legal for an organization to accept donations in bitcoins.

They have hope this situation can be resolved, but in the meantime, in the USA, accepting bitcoin donations puts the organization at risk.

What is that based on? If it's illegal to accept it for a donation then by that logic I don't see how you could accept it as payment.

This. But lets be honest, didn't we already know that? Or have you seen any tax papers that have a section to declare your bitcoin income?

Same section you declare the goat your neighbor gave you for mowing their lawn while they were on vacation.

Jered

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MagicalTux
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September 01, 2011, 02:08:37 PM
 #70

Whatever you do, ask your own lawyers anyway.

We are trying to check for things in the broadest range possible, and until the status of bitcoin is legally defined, accepting donations in bitcoins can be bad. It depends on context and various things.

Let me say it explicitly. I am not your legal counsel. I provide an opinion based on the feedback of different lawyer firms working together in the US for us, and they wouldn't advice anyone to accept bitcoins as donations.

ThomasV
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September 01, 2011, 02:08:48 PM
 #71

I've asked MT to clarify :

<MagicalTux> accepting donations in BTC is an issue because of all the reglementations around donations
<MagicalTux> business activity is slightly less reglemented than donations


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The_Duke
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September 01, 2011, 02:10:14 PM
 #72

Our US lawyers have confirmed that at this point it is not legal for an organization to accept donations in bitcoins.

They have hope this situation can be resolved, but in the meantime, in the USA, accepting bitcoin donations puts the organization at risk.

What is that based on? If it's illegal to accept it for a donation then by that logic I don't see how you could accept it as payment.

This. But lets be honest, didn't we already know that? Or have you seen any tax papers that have a section to declare your bitcoin income?

Same section you declare the goat your neighbor gave you for mowing their lawn while they were on vacation.

Jered

Thats what I mean. The non-existing section. Unless you know how to calculate the VAT on a goat.

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BitPay Business Solutions
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September 01, 2011, 02:10:33 PM
 #73

Our US lawyers have confirmed that at this point it is not legal for an organization to accept donations in bitcoins.

The charity will know the regulations for accepting cash donations vs. property donations, if there are any differences.  The opinion we got is that there is nothing illegal about it, but of course it is up to the discretion of the charity.  They can accept or decline anything, including furniture, cars, blankets, food, etc.  

BitPay : The World Leader in Bitcoin Business Solutions

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The_Duke
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September 01, 2011, 02:11:53 PM
 #74

Whatever you do, ask your own lawyers anyway.

We are trying to check for things in the broadest range possible, and until the status of bitcoin is legally defined, accepting donations in bitcoins can be bad. It depends on context and various things.

Let me say it explicitly. I am not your legal counsel. I provide an opinion based on the feedback of different lawyer firms working together in the US for us, and they wouldn't advice anyone to accept bitcoins as donations.

Ok, can we remove all businesses/organisations that say "accepting bitcoin donations" from the wiki please? Because if that is true, then the wiki is displaying illegal activities.

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Donate to the BitKitty Foundation instead! -> 1Fd4yLneGmxRHnPi6WCMC2hAMzaWvDePF9 <-
Jered Kenna (TradeHill)
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September 01, 2011, 02:13:22 PM
 #75

Our US lawyers have confirmed that at this point it is not legal for an organization to accept donations in bitcoins.

They have hope this situation can be resolved, but in the meantime, in the USA, accepting bitcoin donations puts the organization at risk.

What is that based on? If it's illegal to accept it for a donation then by that logic I don't see how you could accept it as payment.

This. But lets be honest, didn't we already know that? Or have you seen any tax papers that have a section to declare your bitcoin income?

Same section you declare the goat your neighbor gave you for mowing their lawn while they were on vacation.

Jered

Thats what I mean. The non-existing section. Unless you know how to calculate the VAT on a goat.

It very much exists at least in the US which is where we're talking about.
If we're considering wikipedia a source we can use this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barter

Tax implications

In the United States, the sales a barter exchange makes are considered taxable revenue by the IRS and the gross amount of a barter exchange member's sales are reported to the IRS by the barter exchange via a 1099-B form. The requirement for barter exchanges to report members sales was enacted in the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982. According to the IRS, "The fair market value of goods and services exchanged must be included in the income of both parties."[9]

Other countries do not have the reporting requirement that the U.S. does concerning proceeds from barter transactions, but taxation is handled the same way as a cash transaction. If one barters for a profit, one pays the appropriate tax; if one generates a loss in the transaction, they have a loss. Bartering for business is also taxed accordingly as business income or business expense. Many barter exchanges require that one register as a business.


Jered

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Piper67
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September 01, 2011, 02:13:48 PM
 #76

Perhaps we should make a difference between something not being legal, and something being illegal.
The_Duke
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September 01, 2011, 02:14:14 PM
 #77

the cryptocurrency economy is VERY young

Of course you meant to say: VERY nonexistent

There is no bitcoin economy. There is only speculation.

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Piper67
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September 01, 2011, 02:15:47 PM
 #78


We immediately convert these to US Dollars, which clearly establishes their value



Acknowledgement that bitcoin has no (clear) value. Love it.

In a long list of silly posts, this has to go be among the silliest. So if BitPay was offering a way of turning gold donations into US dollars, you'd be saying gold has no value?

Philosophically, I'm with you, NOTHING has inherent value. But for the purposes of this discussion, it's just stupid.
The_Duke
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September 01, 2011, 02:17:43 PM
 #79


We immediately convert these to US Dollars, which clearly establishes their value



Acknowledgement that bitcoin has no (clear) value. Love it.

In a long list of silly posts, this has to go be among the silliest. So if BitPay was offering a way of turning gold donations into US dollars, you'd be saying gold has no value?

Philosophically, I'm with you, NOTHING has inherent value. But for the purposes of this discussion, it's just stupid.

You know just as well as all the others here that no sane person living in the real world would keep his money stored in bitcoins. Which is something that was clearly shown again by Bit-pay.
I am sure that if we would send our donations in gold to mr Bit-pay he would be a lot less hasty to immediately exchange them for dollars.

NOT a member of the so called ''Bitcoin Foundation''. Choose Independence!

Donate to the BitKitty Foundation instead! -> 1Fd4yLneGmxRHnPi6WCMC2hAMzaWvDePF9 <-
Piper67
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September 01, 2011, 02:21:10 PM
 #80


We immediately convert these to US Dollars, which clearly establishes their value



Acknowledgement that bitcoin has no (clear) value. Love it.

In a long list of silly posts, this has to go be among the silliest. So if BitPay was offering a way of turning gold donations into US dollars, you'd be saying gold has no value?

Philosophically, I'm with you, NOTHING has inherent value. But for the purposes of this discussion, it's just stupid.

You know just as well as all the others here that no sane person living in the real world would keep his money stored in bitcoins. Which is something that was clearly shown again by Bit-pay.
I am sure that if we would send our donations in gold to mr Bit-pay he would be a lot less hasty to immediately exchange them for dollars.

No, I don't know that. I do know what the trading volumes at the exchanges are. I also know what I am doing. And as best I can tell I am a sane person and living in the real world.

So please don't put words in my mouth, or those of other sane people out there.

Actually, it'd be a bit insane to be keeping lots of money in US dollars right now, but luckily that's not where I live, so it isn't a great concern to me.
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