Transaction fee

[StevenC]

Will my transaction remain with zero confirmations for the next ten blocks?

I think it would be at least 10 blocks;  your transaction may get stuck in a backlog of free transactions that can't all fit into the next block.  Which seems to be happening for real right now...

[1713870878]

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[1713870878]

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[barbarousrelic]

Will my transaction remain with zero confirmations for the next ten blocks?

I think it would be at least 10 blocks;  your transaction may get stuck in a backlog of free transactions that can't all fit into the next block.  Which seems to be happening for real right now...

If this is the case, I don't see why any miners would have any incentive to process no-fee transactions. If they get the new-block 50BTC regardless, they lose nothing by requiring fees and can potentially gain.

[jgarzik]

How does this work exactly? Say I send a transaction without a fee, and the next ten blocks are all generated by miners who require fees. Will my transaction remain with zero confirmations for the next ten blocks?

That is correct.

[barbarousrelic]

How does this work exactly? Say I send a transaction without a fee, and the next ten blocks are all generated by miners who require fees. Will my transaction remain with zero confirmations for the next ten blocks?

That is correct.

So why does any miner accept transactions without a fee? They gain nothing by accepting these transactions and lose nothing by requiring a transaction fee.

[mndrix]

So why does any miner accept transactions without a fee? They gain nothing by accepting these transactions and lose nothing by requiring a transaction fee.

Miners gain broader Bitcoin usage by accepting free transactions into their blocks.  Broad usage should translate into higher Bitcoin prices and higher mining profits.

[Cusipzzz]

also, miners send transactions too. Call it professional courtesy from whomever gets the next block

[Groc]

Is there any incentive at all to pay transaction fees if the block size is less than its maximum size? If the block is less than the maximum size, won't all transactions be included in the block regardless of fees paid?

Some miners are not putting transactions in if there is no fee. I presume this is to incentivise fees.

Say I send a transaction without a fee, and the next ten blocks are all generated by miners who require fees.

Is there different software for miners?

[freeman]

Is there different software for miners?

Most people use the standard version but not all do.  I'm pretty ArtForz has his own version and others do too.

[Only-One Bit Coiner]

pools

One can create an alternative pool without fees, pools are uncontrollable.

[LMGTFY]

One can create an alternative pool without fees, pools are uncontrollable.

Sure. But would you want to join such a pool, if it was competing with pools that did levy transaction fees? Given a choice between a share of 50 BTC or a share of 50 + 0.5 (say) BTC, I'd prefer to go with the pool that levied fees.

[FreeMoney]

One can create an alternative pool without fees, pools are uncontrollable.

Sure. But would you want to join such a pool, if it was competing with pools that did levy transaction fees? Given a choice between a share of 50 BTC or a share of 50 + 0.5 (say) BTC, I'd prefer to go with the pool that levied fees.

You can't 'levy' fees. A fee is either attached or it is not. Rejecting no-fee transactions does not make you more in fees. A pool that includes some free tx does not give up any fees that are attached to other tx.

[LMGTFY]

One can create an alternative pool without fees, pools are uncontrollable.

Sure. But would you want to join such a pool, if it was competing with pools that did levy transaction fees? Given a choice between a share of 50 BTC or a share of 50 + 0.5 (say) BTC, I'd prefer to go with the pool that levied fees.

You can't 'levy' fees. A fee is either attached or it is not. Rejecting no-fee transactions does not make you more in fees. A pool that includes some free tx does not give up any fees that are attached to other tx.

Poor choice of words on my part. I'm not sure I get the second part, however. If one pool ("free pool") doesn't reject any transactions, it will get some transaction fees. However, if another pool ("non-free pool") does reject fee-less transactions, it'll (a) ensure that it gets a fee from every transaction it handles, and (b) it'll leave fee-free transactions for "free pool" to handle. Put another way, we know that every block generated by "non-free pool" is going to have transaction fees in addition to the 50 BTC. We don't that that's the case for "free pool": sometimes there will be transaction fees, sometimes not. Or am I missing something?

[FreeMoney]

One can create an alternative pool without fees, pools are uncontrollable.

Sure. But would you want to join such a pool, if it was competing with pools that did levy transaction fees? Given a choice between a share of 50 BTC or a share of 50 + 0.5 (say) BTC, I'd prefer to go with the pool that levied fees.

You can't 'levy' fees. A fee is either attached or it is not. Rejecting no-fee transactions does not make you more in fees. A pool that includes some free tx does not give up any fees that are attached to other tx.

Poor choice of words on my part. I'm not sure I get the second part, however. If one pool ("free pool") doesn't reject any transactions, it will get some transaction fees. However, if another pool ("non-free pool") does reject fee-less transactions, it'll (a) ensure that it gets a fee from every transaction it handles, and (b) it'll leave fee-free transactions for "free pool" to handle. Put another way, we know that every block generated by "non-free pool" is going to have transaction fees in addition to the 50 BTC. We don't that that's the case for "free pool": sometimes there will be transaction fees, sometimes not. Or am I missing something?

I don't think any miner will ever put free tx in before fee tx. So say 1000 tx fit in a block and there are 2000tx waiting that have fees both miners will include the exact same set of tx. But if there are only 600 tx with fees then one will include only those 600 and the other will include those 600 plus 400 free tx. Both miners will receive the exact same amount of fees.

I suppose things change a little in 120 years when there is no per block reward. Some miners might wait to search for a block until there was a fee tx and some might start "for charity" as soon as there was any tx at all.

[LMGTFY]

I don't think any miner will ever put free tx in before fee tx. So say 1000 tx fit in a block and there are 2000tx waiting that have fees both miners will include the exact same set of tx. But if there are only 600 tx with fees then one will include only those 600 and the other will include those 600 plus 400 free tx. Both miners will receive the exact same amount of fees.

I suppose things change a little in 120 years when there is no per block reward. Some miners might wait to search for a block until there was a fee tx and some might start "for charity" as soon as there was any tx at all.

Got it (I think!) Rather than increasing the coins available to the "non-free pool" at the expense of "free pool", the effect of non-free pool's rejection of fee-free transactions will be to increase the waiting time for fee-free txs before they're confirmed. (Which should lead to more tx fees, which in turn will benefit all miners/pools). Thanks for your patience!

[FreeMoney]

I don't think any miner will ever put free tx in before fee tx. So say 1000 tx fit in a block and there are 2000tx waiting that have fees both miners will include the exact same set of tx. But if there are only 600 tx with fees then one will include only those 600 and the other will include those 600 plus 400 free tx. Both miners will receive the exact same amount of fees.

I suppose things change a little in 120 years when there is no per block reward. Some miners might wait to search for a block until there was a fee tx and some might start "for charity" as soon as there was any tx at all.

Got it (I think!) Rather than increasing the coins available to the "non-free pool" at the expense of "free pool", the effect of non-free pool's rejection of fee-free transactions will be to increase the waiting time for fee-free txs before they're confirmed. (Which should lead to more tx fees, which in turn will benefit all miners/pools). Thanks for your patience!

No problem, glad you got it.

[Groc]

I don't think any miner will ever put free tx in before fee tx. ...

How do miners have a choice to process fee transactions first?
When I set my client to generate coins (/ blocks as I understand it) there is no option for me to work only on fee transactions/blocks. 

[LMGTFY]

I don't think any miner will ever put free tx in before fee tx. ...

How do miners have a choice to process fee transactions first?
When I set my client to generate coins (/ blocks as I understand it) there is no option for me to work only on fee transactions/blocks. 

The person writing the code for a miner would write it so that their miner preferred fee-bearing transactions.

As far as I know, none of the publicly available miners have this as an option yet.