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Author Topic: Governments will want their TAX ??? The solution is obvious but scary.  (Read 14618 times)
wb3
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March 04, 2011, 08:13:28 PM
 #81

Yea, in the U.S. anyways. It started with the States then filtered up to the FED.  States would probably hold the big piece if it wasn't for the Commerce Clause. The FEDs have abused the Commerce Clause to a point of rebellion of the states and the Public.

Curiously, Do you know the Amish don't pay Social Security, Don't have to have House Insurance on their loans, and are not subject to the new Health Care Laws.   If they had Internet access, I'd convert.

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Littleshop
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March 04, 2011, 08:15:31 PM
 #82

Try your luck with a privatized fire company then instead of a socialist one (like the USA and most of the world uses).  It has been done and lives and buildings we lost.  

Already private jails in the USA have led to the innocent being jailed for money.  Want to try your luck with private police?

Extraordinary claims. Can you provide sources for either of them?

Yes.

Private jails leading to kickbacks for extra convictions suicide involved:

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/115477/20110223/kids-for-cash-judge-ciavarella-called-scumbag-by-grieving-mom.htm

'pay to spray' firefighters watch as fire burns multiple pets burned alive:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/04/firefighters-watch-as-hom_n_750272.html



wb3
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March 04, 2011, 08:18:54 PM
 #83

OK: Let's say I kick down your door, go into the kitchen, and make you a sandwich.

I then give you the sandwich, and present you with a bill for my "services", which I expect you to pay under threat of murder.

How have I helped you, exactly?


With the exception of Murder, that is a pretty good analogy. But if I don't pay, you will get it from my neighbor when you do the same to him.  

We don't have debtors prisons or crimes. It is not illegal to owe money even to the government. Not the IRS has some more powers than any commercial institution, they can take your house, car, and assets, etc....  But they don't put you in jail or beat it out of you, unless you had tried to hide your assets. (Tax Evasion) That is why Switzerland is nice, its just a misdemeanor.


Oh, Thanx for the sandwich, next time put it on Rye or I will vote for another robber.

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March 04, 2011, 08:19:39 PM
 #84

That's not a truly private fire department.
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March 04, 2011, 08:23:28 PM
 #85

Try your luck with a privatized fire company then instead of a socialist one (like the USA and most of the world uses).  It has been done and lives and buildings we lost.  

Already private jails in the USA have led to the innocent being jailed for money.  Want to try your luck with private police?

Extraordinary claims. Can you provide sources for either of them?

Yes.

Neither of those cases are talking about private, for-profit companies.

One is gov't corruption, the other is the CITY fire dept refusing service to someone who is outside city limits.

so... fail all around.

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myrkul
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March 04, 2011, 08:25:35 PM
 #86

Oh, Thanx for the sandwich, next time put it on Rye or I will vote for another robber.

Seriously?

Better idea: stay the hell out of my kitchen and let me make my own damn sandwich.

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March 04, 2011, 08:26:22 PM
 #87

I don't understand wb3's apathy towards tyranny whatsoever.
wb3
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March 04, 2011, 08:31:57 PM
 #88

Not tyranny, a form of order.  Your perception (Point of View) will depend on weather it is tyranny.

It is really Chaos.  The universe is Chaotic, but yet there is order within that Chaos.

Take for Example: Anonymous,  if anarchists, there is an order to the behavior.  Any true, anarchist would never agree with anyone else. But the small points of connections in believes will start to form an ordered Behavior.

Just like the Wild, Wild, West....    Out of chaos, comes order. 

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March 04, 2011, 08:33:09 PM
 #89

I don't see order. I don't see chaos. I see individuals.
myrkul
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March 04, 2011, 08:39:09 PM
 #90

You do know you can have Order without orders, Rules without rulers?

Anarchists are fully capable of agreeing not to mess with each others' business.

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Littleshop
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March 04, 2011, 08:54:21 PM
 #91

Try your luck with a privatized fire company then instead of a socialist one (like the USA and most of the world uses).  It has been done and lives and buildings we lost.  

Already private jails in the USA have led to the innocent being jailed for money.  Want to try your luck with private police?

Extraordinary claims. Can you provide sources for either of them?

Yes.

Neither of those cases are talking about private, for-profit companies.

One is gov't corruption, the other is the CITY fire dept refusing service to someone who is outside city limits.

so... fail all around.

Yes, the jail was indeed a private for profit facility.  50% fail for each of us

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March 04, 2011, 08:57:04 PM
 #92

One private and for-profit business =/= fair, conscious and free economic environment.
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March 04, 2011, 09:03:41 PM
 #93

The jail was run by a state-granted monopoly. Doesn't sound too "private" to me.

When I can start up my own jail to compete with the one in that story, then you'll have a point. Until then, Fail.


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March 04, 2011, 09:46:33 PM
 #94

Try your luck with a privatized fire company then instead of a socialist one (like the USA and most of the world uses).  It has been done and lives and buildings we lost. 

Already private jails in the USA have led to the innocent being jailed for money.  Want to try your luck with private police?

Extraordinary claims. Can you provide sources for either of them?

Yes.

Private jails leading to kickbacks for extra convictions suicide involved:

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/115477/20110223/kids-for-cash-judge-ciavarella-called-scumbag-by-grieving-mom.htm

'pay to spray' firefighters watch as fire burns multiple pets burned alive:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/04/firefighters-watch-as-hom_n_750272.html

Neither of these provide evidence for your extraordinary claims.

First, someone buying a group of corrupt judges (which is what happened here) hardly indicates a problem with the market, but rather, with the government.

Second, the fire department here was a fully government service; this has nothing to do with privately-owned municipal services.

Try again.

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Littleshop
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March 04, 2011, 10:09:12 PM
 #95

Try your luck with a privatized fire company then instead of a socialist one (like the USA and most of the world uses).  It has been done and lives and buildings we lost. 

Already private jails in the USA have led to the innocent being jailed for money.  Want to try your luck with private police?

Extraordinary claims. Can you provide sources for either of them?

Yes.

Private jails leading to kickbacks for extra convictions suicide involved:

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/115477/20110223/kids-for-cash-judge-ciavarella-called-scumbag-by-grieving-mom.htm

'pay to spray' firefighters watch as fire burns multiple pets burned alive:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/04/firefighters-watch-as-hom_n_750272.html

Neither of these provide evidence for your extraordinary claims.

First, someone buying a group of corrupt judges (which is what happened here) hardly indicates a problem with the market, but rather, with the government.

Second, the fire department here was a fully government service; this has nothing to do with privately-owned municipal services.

Try again.

No point in trying again.  If a privately run jail is considered government because the government sanctioned it, then in effect all things like this are government problems using this view.  And if a buying a judge (which we both agree is what happened here) is still government problem ONLY and has no fault with the private jail that did the buying there is no point in arguing. 




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March 04, 2011, 10:11:45 PM
 #96

The jail was run by a state-granted monopoly. Doesn't sound too "private" to me.

When I can start up my own jail to compete with the one in that story, then you'll have a point. Until then, Fail.



Then we have very different ideas of what private is.  Using that argument my power company is a government entity too and so is Comcast.  I agree that they are MONOPOLIES but I do not think they are non-private.


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March 04, 2011, 10:12:32 PM
 #97

The jail was run by a state-granted monopoly. Doesn't sound too "private" to me.

When I can start up my own jail to compete with the one in that story, then you'll have a point. Until then, Fail.


And I do welcome the day that I could string up my own wires and compete with Comcast and the power company. 

wb3
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March 04, 2011, 10:18:38 PM
 #98

You do know you can have Order without orders, Rules without rulers?

Anarchists are fully capable of agreeing not to mess with each others' business.

So the first rule: Is to agree to not mess with other's business.   That can be a little confusing. Sounds a little like; To each his own.

When one's business messes with another's business, the rule will be broken.

Order without orders, is a natural event. Like water seeking level ground at the lowest possible point.

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myrkul
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March 04, 2011, 10:21:28 PM
 #99

Then we have very different ideas of what private is.  Using that argument my power company is a government entity too and so is Comcast.  I agree that they are MONOPOLIES but I do not think they are non-private.

You are arguing that the flaws of a mixed economy directly result in a free market being non-viable. In a free market, with arbitration instead of a court system, there would a) be nobody to buy, and b) be multiple, competing prisons for the defendants to choose from, should it be decided that incarceration would be the best way to ensure nobody ditches on their reparations.

Here, check out this comic: http://www.bigheadpress.com/eft?page=546

(linked page goes directly to the start of a very relevant story, but you're encouraged to read the whole thing. very worthwhile)

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myrkul
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March 04, 2011, 10:26:39 PM
 #100

Order without orders, is a natural event. Like water seeking level ground at the lowest possible point.

Exactly. I think you're beginning to get it. If every member of a society follows this one rule:

Quote
You are not allowed to initiate the use of force, threats of force, or fraud against another person, nor is anyone you delegate.

Then an ordered society naturally flows from that.

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