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Author Topic: [IPO-ANN][NEON] :: Neon :: The Most Advanced Second Generation Currency  (Read 38160 times)
NEONs (OP)
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January 06, 2014, 02:10:38 AM
 #61

If you have two competing chains, how does the client software determine which chain is legitimate?

I will leave this one also to the programmer Nr2 for tomorrow if you will prefer a advanced explanation.

- serious message -

I read everything.

I'm skeptic.
I don't like everything, but there is some good idea.

Unfortunately there is too much scam with IPO.
Do you need this money? Doesn't your team have enough founds?
Take a look at the style of XCP dev (counterparty protocol).
Proof of burn is much more scam-proof.
Also, accepting 4 crypto is suspicious.
Better to stick just with LTC for exemple, choose one.

You should really consider publishing your partial whitepaper right now.
The complete well finished can wait a bit, but 'need something.
Also, I'm no techguy, but double spending is concerning.
Publish the code for this part at least. Or a very high quality whitepaper about it.
That's almost necessary if you wish to be considered serious.
Especially with IPO.

2 questions:
There is a contradiction in your first post.
A: you need million of NEON to forge
B: you get NEON just by running a node (same amount on crappy computer/connection & VPS 1Gb/s, ?)
So which is it? make it clear.

About your encrypted chat/messaging feature:
How do you prevent spam on IM? minimal fee? (fees goes to node or bagholder?)
I wish to see a descentralized email-like system, where I can give priority-reading/answering to the people that pay to contact me.
Free or minimal fee goes into 1 folder, a subalias or something.
Others are categorized between x$ & y$. Or classified by amount max to min.
'Details, but I think you get the idea.
Have you the skill to develop such a system?

@ money, Do we need it? Not really. Up to now we just coded in our free time after work and university. Would it be nice to get some reward for the hard work and some funds to keep working on the code? Yes, definitely.

@XCP dev (counterparty protocol) I honestly have not read anything about this until now,but I will look into this. But don't get your hopes up, the distribution system and its implications are pretty much set in stone, as we believe that it is working astonishing well.

@4 cryptos. Wow, people will find everything to complain about. Who gets hurt by more choices??? I dont get it.

@ Forging. No, i never said 1 million NEONs are needed to start forging. You can start forging with as little as 1 NEON. But in the first year IN ADDITION to the normal forging, the simple running of a master or normal node is rewarded. So basically you can open an account and just run the server. Now every 24 hours you will get a reward for that. If you also have NEONs on this account you have a chance to forge a block and receive additional NEONs.

@Spam on the network. We have a very nice system for that. To start a chat you will have to pay the minfee from then on if you stay at a given rate of traffic per minute, the chatting is free.  If you want to upload or transfer files, you will pay per siye, and this rate per kb or mb is set on a traffic marketplace. This works nicely in the testnet and is discussed greatly in the WP.

@ priority messages. Well as the start of a message always costs the minfee, (but that fee goes to the forger) you wont get spammed anyways. We have not talked about paid messages, but you can always send someone NEONs and add a private comment to the transaction. The length of this comment depends on the fee size and is only decrypted by the person who has the key to the account.

@ idea, we will have to discuss this. Sounds intresting nonetheless

At all, i will go to sleep now and i will answer all questions after the post of panonym tomorrow. Sry guys, need some beautysleep.
IveBeenBit
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January 06, 2014, 02:11:50 AM
 #62

Great, there should be no problem holding everyone's funds with a trusted escrow right?

That is a good Idea Smiley

Yep. I see absolutely no reason whatsoever why the OP shouldn't do this. None at all.

The NEON developers thought of everything else. I'm sure they have a plan for an escrow, as well.
PeercoinEnthusiast
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January 06, 2014, 02:18:33 AM
 #63

Still waiting for your reply concerning escrow.

JustaBitofTime - Co-Founder of CoinTropolis - Currently assisting Nxt
opticalcarrier
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January 06, 2014, 02:20:38 AM
 #64

Great, there should be no problem holding everyone's funds with a trusted escrow right?

I would be happy to provide escrow for mr neons.

i second this motion.  anon136 is a hero member who has been here forever and has tons of posts.  You will gain instant credibility if you do this.  If you dont its considered that you are a scammer
pandaisftw
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January 06, 2014, 02:26:28 AM
 #65

@OP There is no max limit on investing? How will you insure someone won't wait till the last moment of the end of each week, send a large sum of BTC (say 100% of each week, so the person will receive exactly half of each week) and end up with 25% of the total stake?

NXT: 13095091276527367030
Nullu
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January 06, 2014, 02:30:35 AM
 #66

Great, there should be no problem holding everyone's funds with a trusted escrow right?

I would be happy to provide escrow for mr neons.

i second this motion.  anon136 is a hero member who has been here forever and has tons of posts.  You will gain instant credibility if you do this.  If you dont its considered that you are a scammer

If this Dev is a serious coin developer, he should have no problem having the money held with an escrower until he can show this is legit. So far he's avoided the topic.

BTC - 14kYyhhWZwSJFHAjNTtyhRVSu157nE92gF
panonym
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January 06, 2014, 02:36:45 AM
Last edit: January 06, 2014, 02:47:59 AM by panonym
 #67

Thank you for your answers NEONs.

@money, XCP dev take none.
That's kind of extreme, but admirable. Relying solely on the success of their work, sharing with the community. Reputation++

@implications set in stone
Whatever they are, once fixed, don't change them. Or start from zero again.
(meaning: avoid NXT style)

@complain
Near impossible to fully satisfied everyone, 'always complain.
'bout 4 coins, just flashed "IPO-scam x4" in my mind.
Might be legit or good will, but suspicious.
Much less suspicious with proof of burn (but complicate with the various rate).
Escrow people are bragging about is good at first thought, but it's centralized trust.
Why should I trust a member even with 1000 post? Unlikely for me.
For this again, I invite you to study XCP elegant solution of insta-POB.

@forging
Okay, both compatible.
Bonus 1yr for bagholder. In 5yr global fee are splitted between millions of botnet. Not necessarily bad.
Just be careful about inflation. Cap your max nb coin. Otherwise your project gonna die long term.

@ filestoring
So if I pay to upload my file, is it uploaded forever ?
And every single node that wish to get money after the first year will have to have the full DB on his computer, correct?
Even if it mean 2TiB on each computer?
Very interesting in this case. (reduce botnet influence, node quality++, fee reward = better fair reward) might need to consider upload speed vs reward.
That's pretty much Namecoin / Datacoin idea. (but NMC need repay every 9 month, 'don't like that)
Think: need conveniency (what datacoin seem to miss)

We have not talked about paid messages, but you can always send someone NEONs and add a private comment to the transaction. The length of this comment depends on the fee size and is only decrypted by the person who has the key to the account.
This basic solution already exist on all crypto. Althrough usually unencrypted.
Problem is that you get no obvious notification in your client.
It's not explicitly designed for it.
Even bitmessage is flawed.
Develop a quality descentralized messaging system with priority$, and your project might skyrocket just for that.
If well done.

Good rest Wink
k33k
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January 06, 2014, 02:39:15 AM
 #68

In the first step it will be possible to anonymize your actions using TOR and the built-in mixing service.
Once our truly anonymized protocol is finished, there will be no need for this, as the transactions will not be associated with a given account anymore. More on that in the whitepaper.

...

Features: (all of them are already working in the testnet!)
Unlike Bitcoin and many others, we split up the client and the nodes. This is much more user friendly and will lead to less end-user problems.
The node with all features will be published on release on Windows, Linux and Mac.
The nodes will have all client features(see below) plus this features:
-   Distributed storage
-   Advanced DDoS protection (you can read details on this in the white paper that will follow)
-   Blockchain purging, with bootstrapping. (Master nodes will keep the whole blockchain)
-   Secret killer feature, that will be revealed in the whitepaper!
The lightweight client can be used on Android, iOS, Windows, Linux, Mac and as browser plugins on Firefox and Chrome.
The client will have the following features(all can be dis/enabled):
-   Encrypted chat/messaging
-   Alias System (Every account can create one free alias, everyone after that will cost the minfee. Alias can be traded freely on our decentralized marketplace. But the free alias is blocked from trading for 1 month.
-   Send to aliases (no need to remember the account address)
-   Decentralized marketplace where you can trade any asset/alias
-   Voting system
-   News distribution from devs or any other alias you follow.
-   Mixing service
-   Wallet files if wanted (you can use brainwallet and wallet files both, but this is client side)

That is an outrageous list of features and, with no whitepaper or screenshots or anything at all to back it up, you'd have to be crazy to send these guys any money.
pandaisftw
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January 06, 2014, 02:43:32 AM
 #69

In the first step it will be possible to anonymize your actions using TOR and the built-in mixing service.
Once our truly anonymized protocol is finished, there will be no need for this, as the transactions will not be associated with a given account anymore. More on that in the whitepaper.

...

Features: (all of them are already working in the testnet!)
Unlike Bitcoin and many others, we split up the client and the nodes. This is much more user friendly and will lead to less end-user problems.
The node with all features will be published on release on Windows, Linux and Mac.
The nodes will have all client features(see below) plus this features:
-   Distributed storage
-   Advanced DDoS protection (you can read details on this in the white paper that will follow)
-   Blockchain purging, with bootstrapping. (Master nodes will keep the whole blockchain)
-   Secret killer feature, that will be revealed in the whitepaper!
The lightweight client can be used on Android, iOS, Windows, Linux, Mac and as browser plugins on Firefox and Chrome.
The client will have the following features(all can be dis/enabled):
-   Encrypted chat/messaging
-   Alias System (Every account can create one free alias, everyone after that will cost the minfee. Alias can be traded freely on our decentralized marketplace. But the free alias is blocked from trading for 1 month.
-   Send to aliases (no need to remember the account address)
-   Decentralized marketplace where you can trade any asset/alias
-   Voting system
-   News distribution from devs or any other alias you follow.
-   Mixing service
-   Wallet files if wanted (you can use brainwallet and wallet files both, but this is client side)

That is an outrageous list of features and, with no whitepaper or screenshots or anything at all to back it up, you'd have to be crazy to send these guys any money.

Yes, and he's claiming all of them are working Grin

NXT: 13095091276527367030
k33k
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January 06, 2014, 02:50:55 AM
 #70

*snip*

That is an outrageous list of features and, with no whitepaper or screenshots or anything at all to back it up, you'd have to be crazy to send these guys any money.

Yes, and he's claiming all of them are working Grin

That's the maddest part! It would be one thing to promise all these features and never implement them but to claim you have them all working with no screenshot is bananas.
zhao150
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January 06, 2014, 02:57:46 AM
 #71

send 2btc to you,
TX:44042586199fbb33492051a5694a2bb996e3b01e307c84e020e878c783d61fe5
add me to the list
thank you!
I believe you, I hope you develop faseter than BTS.
BTS too slow, I have no patient.
panonym
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January 06, 2014, 02:59:27 AM
 #72

What's BTS?
Anon136
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January 06, 2014, 03:05:31 AM
Last edit: January 06, 2014, 03:19:46 AM by Anon136
 #73

If you have two competing chains, how does the client software determine which chain is legitimate?

I will leave this one also to the programmer Nr2 for tomorrow if you will prefer a advanced explanation.

yes that would be great. i would very much like to have a chat with the programmer on some of the more technical specifics. please send him my way.

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
zhao150
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January 06, 2014, 03:05:59 AM
 #74

BTS is bitshares a good idea,but develop too slow
Anon136
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January 06, 2014, 03:09:17 AM
 #75

Great, there should be no problem holding everyone's funds with a trusted escrow right?

I would be happy to provide escrow for mr neons.

i second this motion.  anon136 is a hero member who has been here forever and has tons of posts.  You will gain instant credibility if you do this.  If you dont its considered that you are a scammer

Additionally i have held fairly large amounts of money in escrow for people. Check out my rep thread in my siggy. Also I have held very large amounts for people in this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=169670

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
MyZhre
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January 06, 2014, 03:18:47 AM
 #76

Great, there should be no problem holding everyone's funds with a trusted escrow right?

I would be happy to provide escrow for mr neons.

i second this motion.  anon136 is a hero member who has been here forever and has tons of posts.  You will gain instant credibility if you do this.  If you dont its considered that you are a scammer

Additionally i have held fairly large amounts of money in escrow for people. Check out my rep thread in my siggy. Also I have held very large amounts for people in this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=169670

If Anon136 in escrow for this, i'll invest a few BTC

NXT: 13997163105778396158
wakasaki808
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January 06, 2014, 03:20:43 AM
 #77

Please let Anon136 escrow if you want more people to invest. If not everyone will just think this is a scam. I would throw more at this if it's allowed.
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January 06, 2014, 03:30:04 AM
 #78

May I welcome to list your NEON at Nxt Exchange two weeks later?

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January 06, 2014, 03:47:59 AM
 #79

So what are the hardware & software requirements for forging?   Is it CPU/GPU intensive?
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January 06, 2014, 04:03:29 AM
 #80

If you are serious about this, I think you should put a cap on the maximum amount of BTC that someone can invest via the IPO. This would prevent an early stakeholder from gaining too large a share early on, which could cause a problem by leading to too much concentration early on. IMO, one of NXT's biggest weaknesses is the concentration of NXT within the accounts of the stakeholders.

Overall, I think your IPO is fairer than NXT's was, and I'm watching with interest what you guys are doing.


NEM - nem.io
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