ghash.io is becoming SHOCKINGLY AGGRESSIVE NOW, closing in 45%

[justusranvier]

I agree it's better when no-pool is so massive and p2pool should be used anyone.

The problem is that ghash.io is too big compared to the rest of the network, not that the 55% of the network which isn't ghash.io isn't running the right mining software.

I like p2pool too, but it's not a magic bullet.

[wachtwoord]

I agree it's better when no-pool is so massive and p2pool should be used anyone.

Having said this, we have had this problem before for an extended period and Deepbit didn't take at advantage of it. Also 51% (so just 1% more than 50%) only gives very limited double spending options unless you're willing to work at it for a very long time. Finally everyone in the entire world will know you've done this destroying any an all fate in you and instantly devaluing Bitcoin (the thing you gain by double spending in the first place).

This is not the apocalypse.

If you are a bitcoin lover and believe in its philosophy, you wouldn't want to risk it. I see the consequences much more severe than what most people might think.

A long time ago when I last mined I used p2pool. I cannot control what other people do. Still, there is really now reason whatsoever to panic.

[JohnBlack]

In my opinion something like p2pool has to be integrated inside the official bitcoin client in order to avoid situations like these.

About GHASH.IO/CEX.IO anyway, I am not sure they will be wise enough not to do anything in order to avoid screwing up the system, did you forget about this?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=327767.0

[Buffer Overflow]

About GHASH.IO/CEX.IO anyway, I am not sure they will be wise enough not to do anything in order to avoid screwing up the system, did you forget about this?

Yes, I agree, but what happens if a malicious person hacks in and take control of the hash power?

Having so much hash power in one centralised place is an extremely bad idea in every situation.

[Thom]

Gotta say things look pretty rosy from inside of cexio at the moment blockwise, but i've always upheld that if they near 51% I'll repoint my miners to the guild. Having said that, whenever ghashio has been down / unmineable and I've had my miners elsewhere, the difference in earn is laaaaarge.

Since they command gazillions of $ worth of hashing power now, there's no incentive to double-spend and massive incentive to ensure a rogue employee can't do it from within since they've had that problem before. They don't want all that coin they're making massively devalued by a huge doublespend, and I'm sure even now they're being battered with support requests asking what their plans are at 51%.

Plus if it came to it and people started bailing, it wouldn't be hard for them to split the pool into one for hosted cex hashing, one for mining devices, or just slap a fee on there for hardware miners and watch a bunch jump ship.

Also, it's dropping: 40% now.

[kendog77]

Small changes in hash rate from day to day are mostly due to pool luck. For example, BTCGuild has had below average luck for the past 24 hours.

I am concerned that gnash.io controls so much of the network, but take small percentage changes in hashrate from day to day with a grain of salt because they change with pool luck.

[OleOle]

So, NSA hash plus Ghash = 51% and end of Bitcoin? Or NSA control over Bitcoin?





Jeez, just kidding. Don't worry about it. Uncle Sam will make it all alright again... wait what? 






-----

Hahahahaha

[kaizuki]

I check the hashrate of ghash is 4.59P and btcguild is 3.297P,which quotient is 1.39,but the quotient blockchain shows is 1.72 at the same time.

[kendog77]

I check the hashrate of ghash is 4.59P and btcguild is 3.297P,which quotient is 1.39,but the quotient blockchain shows is 1.72 at the same time.

Right, and BTCGuild pool luck has only been ~80% over the past 24 hours.

Approximate Pool Luck* (24H / 3D / 1W / 2W / 1M): 80.866% / 92.269% / 100.870% / 103.326% / 103.741%

[Thom]

BTC = risk
51% = risk
ghashio nearing 51% = risk
any pool nearing 51% = risk
any pool making use of 51% to attack = risk
any pool that makes use of 51% to attack the network significantly and is noticed in any way = massive abandonment of pool
any pool nearing 51% = smaller-scale abandonment of pool
ghashio attacking the network with hosted hashes and miner workers = massive abandonment of pool and/or hosted GHS sold
ghashio attacking the network with hosted hashes alone = implausible + hosted GHS sold + cex/ghash left userless
ghashio business model gains by doing so = null
rogue hacker/employee gains by doing so = minimal compared to being a BTC early adopter like the rest of us on the inside of cex/ghash.

Caution is good, but why would anybody on the inside of cex/ghash be somehow amazingly disgruntled with BTC enough to attack it, yet sufficently talented at manual blockchain manipulation and other facets of bitcoin to be a real big earner in BTC terms?

Likewise, a hacker breaking into cex/ghash might be able do it. but rly, if you hacked your way onto the inside of that, wouldn't it be in your better interests to steal some BTC rather than break the BTC network as a whole?

Also be aware, all, that it's entirely possible to perform a lot of the facets of a 51% attack with less hashing power. If you fear ghashio might do something nuts with their hashpower or be too vulnerable for the responsibility, then how about this: they've had the power to make these attacks for weeks already, just at a lower success rate.

And hey, if'n you distrust most of your blocks being baked in one place or by one group, then what about the genesis block and friends?

[tk1337]

the biggest incentive (I see) for using CEX.io/Ghash.io is one major thing, a lot of pool owners have said no to...

auto-payouts with splits by percentage

Which makes it tons easier when I have a friend that wants to throw some money down on a miner and have me toss in the rest + host it, then I just have to put in an address and what % he gets, what % I get... and nothing else. No more screwing around with spreadsheets, no more bullshit.

Awhile back I asked several 'group buy leaders' in PM how they did the split %'s on shares in miners, the answer I always got back was 'spreadsheet'. Seriously, a spreadsheet... I was debating on making something to handle the splitting for myself in PHP or some other language, however CEX.io/Ghash.io came along, 0% pool fee, splits everything easily, bam, sold.

Not to mention when people ask me why I use it, I tell them that and... then they start using it for the same reason. Obviously a feature a lot of people overlooked, plus merged mining in IXC, DVC, NMC is also a damn good perk.

[btcdrak]

We need to encourage BTCGuild to turn on 0% fees for a while, that will encourage people away from ghash.io

[btcdrak]

the biggest incentive (I see) for using CEX.io/Ghash.io is one major thing, a lot of pool owners have said no to...

auto-payouts with splits by percentage

Which makes it tons easier when I have a friend that wants to throw some money down on a miner and have me toss in the rest + host it, then I just have to put in an address and what % he gets, what % I get... and nothing else. No more screwing around with spreadsheets, no more bullshit.

Awhile back I asked several 'group buy leaders' in PM how they did the split %'s on shares in miners, the answer I always got back was 'spreadsheet'. Seriously, a spreadsheet... I was debating on making something to handle the splitting for myself in PHP or some other language, however CEX.io/Ghash.io came along, 0% pool fee, splits everything easily, bam, sold.

Not to mention when people ask me why I use it, I tell them that and... then they start using it for the same reason. Obviously a feature a lot of people overlooked, plus merged mining in IXC, DVC, NMC is also a damn good perk.

Time to start lobbying BTCGuild - they have shown a keen interest in doing things to preserve the well being of the network.

[naplam]

If they wanted to take over Bitcoin they wouldn't wait till 51% when everyone would be watching. They would have a "shadow" farm ready to do the attack while people are still debating what to do when they're getting close to 51 (so, right about NOW). Anyway, I never got it. Why would people put millions in bitcoin without researching. without taking every negative aspect into account, including the 51% issue. And, by the way, you don't really need 51% to launch limited attacks. They can do some stuff already. Also, 51% doesn't guarantee complete control either. I hope everyone realises the massive shortcomings of Bitcoin and some altcoin takes its place.

[Thom]

the biggest incentive (I see) for using CEX.io/Ghash.io is one major thing, a lot of pool owners have said no to...

auto-payouts with splits by percentage

Which makes it tons easier when I have a friend that wants to throw some money down on a miner and have me toss in the rest + host it, then I just have to put in an address and what % he gets, what % I get... and nothing else. No more screwing around with spreadsheets, no more bullshit.

Precisely why at least ten very large shared cexio accounts i know of won't be going anywhere else anytime soon.

All we need is a pool with four coin mergemining, low/null fee and % payout splits.
the only one with all those just happens to be connected to a massive chunk of scary static hashpower.

[btcdrak]

Looks like the community is responding - the hash power has dropped already to 39% https://blockchain.info/pools?timespan=24hrs

[Scott J]

You guys are either really paranoid ..
Or I'm overly naive ..

Seems to me they've got a good and working business model ..
They have no incentive to kill the goose ..

Triff ..

Do we really want our network - currently worth over $10,000,000,000 of people's money - to be protected only by the whim/integrity of one person/organisation?

They may not have an incentive to kill the goose, but they are human and they are fallible.  

How well do we know them to trust them with this much money?

Think about it.

[avarice]

You guys are either really paranoid ..
Or I'm overly naive ..

Seems to me they've got a good and working business model ..
They have no incentive to kill the goose ..

Triff ..

Do we really want our network - currently worth over $10,000,000,000 of people's money - to be protected only by the whim/integrity of one person/organisation?

They may not have an incentive to kill the goose, but they are human and they are fallible.  

How well do we know them to trust them with this much money?

Think about it.

so now we are protected only by whim/integrity of two persons/organisations.

[Xian01]

so now we are protected only by whim/integrity of two persons/organisations.

 Knock out the current top two, and then we'll be then again protected only by whim/integrity of the next two largest pools (And this is nothing against BTCG. Eleuthria really does seem like a super dude and I really appreciate him)

 Difficult problem to solve  

[descarte]

gavin should do a patch sooner rather than later.